Greeting neighbor during Mass/Liturgical abuse?

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MikeInVA said:
From your link. Please show me the part where it says, “now ask the parishioners to stand, greet and interact with each other for a few moments.” And I’m sorry, just because something is not specifically proscribed does not mean it is allowed.
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I asked what part forbids it. You did not point anything out. I do not accept the burden of proof of what is permitted as part of the homily. I have never heard that a homily is forbidden from being interactive, use visual aids, include jokes or anything specific. Therefore, I decline your argument as requiring a burden of proof as to what can be in a homily.

Who is to give this homily is specific though. It is not I, so I have no real authority to define a homily.
 
PeterT said:
The GIRM has rules of what the homily should contain and who may say it (a priest or deacon).
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None of which are specific. No rule from the GIRM gives any instruction as to whether and interaction is permissible. This might well be why this action is done at the homily, instead of elsewhere.
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
I understand that’s how some people feel, but I cannot control whether a priest, perhaps even with his bishop’s approval, wishes to make a minor deviation from the GIRM. It’s out of my hands, and I don’t feel like I need to or should have to avoid a Mass that’s generally licit and valid because of this choice by a priest.
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It’s not just “some people”, it’s the Church itself. It’s something the Pope Benedict XVI worked hard to eliminate. And it’s a not a “minor” deviation. It’s a major deviation to the sacred liturgy of the Mass. The Liturgy of the Mass (including the Liturgy of the Word) has been carefully constructed by the Church and its bishops. A priest has no right to alter it where alterations are not allowed.

And what’s a shame is that the GIRM does allow for a lot of “customization” of our current OF Mass. It can be celebrated in the vernacular or in Latin. The music can range from Gregorian chants to 21st Century hymns. Incense can be used or omitted. There are many ways that OF of the Mass can be adapted to fit the pastoral needs of the parish. But inserting a unapproved rite between the proclamation of the Gospel (the high point of the Liturgy of the Word) and the homily is simply not one of them.

If I was a member of that parish, I would strongly consider writing a letter to the Diocesan bishop about it.
 
pnewton said:
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PeterT:
The GIRM has rules of what the homily should contain and who may say it (a priest or deacon).
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None of which are specific. No rule from the GIRM gives any instruction as to whether and interaction is permissible. This might well be why this action is done at the homily, instead of elsewhere.
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Just because the GIRM doesn’t prohibit something specifically doesn’t mean it allows it. And to consider what the OP described as an extension of the homily is simply an overreach. It’s clearly a whole new rite that was inserted into the liturgy itself.
 
Cruciferi said:
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LetItBe:
we will be asked to turn to our neighbor, introduce ourselves, and ask them how we can pray for them in the coming week.
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Good grief…
LetItBe said:
If not, what recourse do I have?
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Personally, I’d find another Parish.
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If I were in her shoes, I wouldn’t. The parish is for the benefit of the community of believers who live within the parish boundaries. The faithful of the parish have the right to demand from the diocesan bishop that the pastor and other priests assigned to that parish celebrate the Mass in accordance to the allowed norms of the Church. A parishioner shouldn’t have to seek out another parish because a priest is doing something during the Mass that’s not allowed.
 
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I think there is a genuine issue here as to whether asking people to speak to their neighbor about prayers during homily time is actually adding anything to the Mass.

And even if it somehow was…I still want to attend Mass. I cannot do anything about what the priest chooses to do except complain to the pastor and bishop, and in this case I would not want to bother.

Yet when I repeatedly express on here that I personally just want to go to Mass and do not care about this minor (to me) issue, I get ranted at by multiple posters over and over. This does not make me care more. It makes me think some people are just overly legalistic and sitting in the pew with score cards as someone else said.

Since this post is likely to get the same response from someone for the fourth time, I’m leaving the thread. I guess we all just have a difference of opinion as to the magnitude of this issue. Bye.
 
During the homily there is some leeway.
It would not be an abuse to add this during that time.
 
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This thread make me so sad.
The priest is doing something that is a kind gesture and helping to create some fellowship and he and any one who supports him is lambasted.
No wonder so many people think we are an unfriendly lot.
 
On the issue of what is permitted during the homily, the following may be helpful.

The 1970 Instruction Liturgicae instaurationes has in 2a:
“The homily has as its purpose to explain to the faithful the word of God just proclaimed and to adapt it to the mentality of the times. The priest, therefore, is the homilist; the congregation is to refrain from comments, attempts at dialogue, or anything similar.”

(From the book Documents on the Liturgy 1963–1979, published by Liturgical Press in 1982, page 161).

The 1973 Directory for Masses with Children has:

“48. The homily explaining the word of God should be given great prominence in all Masses with children. Sometimes the homily intended for children should become a dialogue with them, unless it is preferred that they should listen in silence.”

This is from Chapter III Masses with Children in Which Only a Few Adults Participate. At the end of chapter II it has “Wherever the bishop permits, in addition to the adaptations already provided in the Order of Mass, one or other of the particular adaptations described later in the Directory may be employed in a Mass celebrated with adults in which children also participate."

The 2014 Homiletic Directory (at http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...dds_doc_20140629_direttorio-omiletico_en.html ) has an appendix “Post-concilar Ecclesial Sources Relevant to Preaching”. It refers to the 1970 Instruction but not to the Directory for Masses With Children.
 
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I know it might seem like 'Blue Meanies" but try to understand that the end doesn’t justify the means here.

Rules aren’t meant to kill fellowship and foster dissent; they are meant as a guideline to help keep things from degenerating into a free for all.

Emotions don’t justify going ‘against the rules’.

I am a very friendly person. The fact that I do not wish for a priest (assuming this is his idea, not the Bishop’s) to insert INTO the MASS something which is not called for in the GIRM (the ‘rules’ which are meant to allow all of us as a Church to pray TOGETHER), does not make me into an unfriendly person.

It isn’t all about feelings. It’s about fairness. And it’s about obedience. We in this country and society are hell-bent mostly on ‘being individuals’, ‘you aren’t the boss of me’, “I’m a Vermontah, I do what I wanta”, etc. etc. And even our good and faithful priests (thank God for them) have been raised by and conditioned by this kind of society to want to ‘individualize’ ‘their’ Mass, for the benefit, they truly believe, of ‘their flock’. Most of them would either insist that they ARE obedient "to a higher cause’, or ‘to their conscience’, or ‘to the Spirit of the Law’. . .or if they acknowledge lack of obedience would justify it "old rules are meant to be broken’, ‘the past is over and done’, ‘we’re an Easter people and not bound by old-fashioned thinking’. The whole idea of obedience is, pardon the expression, anathema to most 21st century Western Catholics (Look at the memes about ‘sheeple’ meant to shame those who are obedient, the sneers about pray, pay, and obey, the extolling of all kinds of disobedient actions as being ‘heroic’, ‘thinking for oneself’, ‘moving beyond rigidity’, ‘enlightened, ‘compassionate’, "if God really were this rigid and rules focused, I wouldn’t worship him’, etc. etc.)

And so people will bend over backward to justify ‘petty things’ and to try to make those who call out wrong into tyrants, hateful rigid sad beings who are trying to stifle kindness, etc.

Well, perhaps someday someone will spare a little kindness for us. Until then, guess we’ll just have to risk having people call us Pharisees (sticks and stones, y’all) and lovingly stand up for Jesus even when it makes others feel bad. . .
 
Honest question, here. Does anyone here really think God cares even a tiny bit about this? If so, how so?
 
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This just shows that they don’t understand the problem. The more they focus the mass on people and less on God, attendance will continue to decline. Put the focus back on God and more and more people will return.
 
In addition to Divine Law there is also Liturgical Laws governing the Church.

Redemptionis Sacramentum On certain matters to be observed or to be avoided regarding the Most Holy Eucharist #183 & 184

" 6. Complaints Regarding Abuses in Liturgical Matters

[183.] In an altogether particular manner, let everyone do all that is in their power to ensure that the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist will be protected from any and every irreverence or distortion and that all abuses be thoroughly corrected. This is a most serious duty incumbent upon each and every one, and all are bound to carry it out without any favouritism."
and
" [184.] Any Catholic, whether Priest or Deacon or lay member of Christ’s faithful, has the right to lodge a complaint regarding a liturgical abuse to the diocesan Bishop or the competent Ordinary equivalent to him in law, or to the Apostolic See on account of the primacy of the Roman Pontiff.[290] It is fitting, however, insofar as possible, that the report or complaint be submitted first to the diocesan Bishop. This is naturally to be done in truth and charity."

Personally, I wouldn’t be contacting the Bishop about this. My own inclination would be to speak with the priest privately to ask about it, and depending on the answer either tolerate it or go to another Mass time or parish.
 
@stpurl,
It is not against the rubrics for a priest to include this instruction in his homily. Period.

Some may not like it, but it is on no way, shape or form a “liturgical abuse”.
 
You say it is not against the rubrics.
However, I do not believe you have shown this is the case.
The rubrics do not say, “You may not ask the people to greet and pray for each other during the homily”. . .but it also does not say, "You MAY ask the people. . " etc. Omission does not imply permission.

A liturgical abuse includes both omitting something which the Mass should have (i.e., saying the Creed on Sundays) as well as adding something it should not.

When/if the bishops (USCCB) give instruction that this happen exactly at this time, then it would not be ‘against the rubrics’. Until then, this is a practice which is questionable.
 
The “greeting your neighbor” thing feels very forced and insincere. Most Protestant churches (especially Baptist and Evangelical) put Catholic attempts at fellowship to shame. I have attended non-worship functions at some of the Protestant churches in my area and you definitely get the sense that most of the folks know each other, socialize with each other outside of church, and genuinely pray for one another. Saying hi to someone for 10 seconds at the beginning of Mass isn’t fellowship, it’s an interruption.
 
Correct. My Parish Priest did stuff like this and it accomplished nothing other than creating animosity between himself and the younger folks.
 
CilladeRoma said:
This thread make me so sad.
The priest is doing something that is a kind gesture and helping to create some fellowship and he and any one who supports him is lambasted.
No wonder so many people think we are an unfriendly lot.
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What this priest is doing is very similar what a former pastor of my parish did

My former pastor (and all the priests while he was pastor) did a very similar thing BUT IT WAS DONE BEFORE THE START of the Mass. My pastor knew better than to try to insert this type of small rite into the middle of the Mass itself.

There would be nothing wrong if this priest did this before the beginning of the Mass itself. It would still be a very kind gesture helping to create some fellowship.
 
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