Greeting neighbor during Mass/Liturgical abuse?

[PeterT]

Honest question, here. Does anyone here really think God cares even a tiny bit about this? If so, how so?

Yes, absolutely.

But more in regards to the overall effectiveness of the Mass so the faithful can better recognize and encounter his holy presence during and throughout the Mass and so foster the ability of all the faithful assembled at the Mass to be in a more united in holy communion with God and all the saints in Heaven and souls in Purgatory as we praise and glorify God at the Mass.

 

[QwertyGirl]

I have to disagree. It sounds well thought out, but at the end of the day that is all man-made stuff.

It’s seems to me these concerns are more about what is important to us in the flesh.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Nobody likes icebreakers. This type of forced stuff might not go well.

 

[Zach]

The “greeting your neighbor” thing feels very forced and insincere. Most Protestant churches (especially Baptist and Evangelical) put Catholic attempts at fellowship to shame.

Not everyone is into socializing with people outside of Church. And plenty of Catholics do socialize, so those Protestants aren’t putting Catholics to shame. I’ve attended these Churches of which you speak and there is much that I can say negatively about them but I feel there’s no need to compare and criticize. There’s nothing disengenuous or insincere about greeting other parishioners at Mass. Where I go it’s done at the beginning. Regardless of rubrics or what the GIRM says or doesn’t say just the meaning of greetings should be enough for it to be at the beginning. It’s like having people together at a house and rather than greeting when they first arrive waiting twenty minutes and saying let’s all greet one another. It doesn’t make sense.

 

[fide]

Thank you for this, stpurl. The issue is important! The entire Liturgy is a moment of holy worship - and adoration - and gift! We have been on a “dumbing down” trajectory for several decades now in many matters of the Faith - and the resultant insensitivity to matters of importance is becoming painfully noticeable. Jesus gave a word relevant to this thread, it seems to me:

Luk 16:10 He who is faithful in a very little is faithful also in much; and he who is dishonest in a very little is dishonest also in much.

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

There are a lot of ways to encourage parishioners to get to know one another. This doesn’t seem that helpful, really. Why not have a newcomer’s group, or coffee time, or bereavement group, etc? This depends too much on the random element of who one is sitting near.
One of the things I liked when I first started attending Catholic Mass was there was no forced fake socializing.

 

[stpurl]

Exactly.

And I’ll repeat, not wanting to have this innovation (and it is an innovation) inserted during the Mass does not make those of us who find it questionable ‘unfriendly’, or dissenting, or mean, or unwelcoming, or ‘holier-than-thou’ or any of the other reflexive charges that seem to automatically come up when, horror of horrors, people would like to see and hear Mass according to the rubrics, which specifically were given to all Catholics BY their bishops in order that we could worship God in a unified way. And while certainly men were involved in determining what and how to offer the Mass, it is not simply ‘man-made’ rules.

Seriously, the spirit of disobedience in modern Catholics is deeply prevalent (Yes, I’m guilty too). And one of the most successful tactics of Satan has been to turn that disobedience into something ‘positive’. The default position, it seems, is that if a person asks for simple obedience, that person is somehow holding him/herself up as ‘against’ every other Christian/person as being ‘superior’ and is therefore ‘not Christ like’. IOW, obedience is a drag, and a vice, not a virtue; being open to doing wrong shows that we ‘care’, ‘think for ourselves’, aren’t ‘rigid’. When we don’t obey, that’s when we are ‘free’. . .

It gets old real fast.

 

[CilladeRoma]

It has been stated, over and over, that during the homily, there is some leeway for the priest.

Threads like this serve no purpose, except to show others how petty we can be.

There is no disobedience, no liturgical abuse or an attempt by a priest to “insert” something into Mass.
The time for the homily, is the priest’s time. If he feels that for his congregation, this is something that will be beneficial, that is his choice to make, not the choice of the “liturgical police” on the internet.

 

[tafan2]

There is certainly leeway in the homily, but this does not sound like part of the homily.

But you could be right, I could be wrong on this question of liturgical abuse.

OTOH, I know I am right about how uncomfortable I would feel doing it. I suppose I am somewhat of an introvert around strangers. I literally would never get comfortable doing it. I doubt seriously if I am unique. There has to be a better way than this to “create fellowship” (to use your term from a earlier post). I see it as a personal intrusion, very similiar to, though not as bad, as the early days of hand holding during the Our Father.

 

[snarflemike]

OTOH, I know I am right about how uncomfortable I would feel doing it. I suppose I am somewhat of an introvert around strangers. I literally would never get comfortable doing it. I doubt seriously if I am unique.

There is no doubt in my mind that people would stop going to this Mass, or walk out if they saw that this priest would be celebrating, simply to avoid this situation. What this priest is proposing is a form of “You Will Be Made To Care”.

 

[Beryllos]

Um, okay, but Christians are supposed to care. I’ve been looking at this coming Sunday’s Gospel reading, the Parable of the Good Samaritan. At the end, Jesus didn’t say “What a great guy! Let’s all give him a hand!” He said “Go and do likewise.” It’s not just a command. By His Word, he gives us the grace to care about others, pray for them, and serve them.

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

Yes, but it’s not like this is the only way to go and do likewise. No shortage of ways to show you care, or actually care for others.
This seems so stagey and self-contratulatory.

 

[stpurl]

on the contrary, threads like this can point out learning opportunities, and not just for those who ‘question’, but for those who ‘implement’ as well. After all, we are all members of the Body of Christ.

Omission, I’ll repeat, does not imply permission.
It isn’t said per the GIRM and the Homily guidelines that the priest cannot require the congregation to stand up and as a sign of unity give each other a ‘holy kiss’, but those who might not balk at ‘saying hello’ might very well balk at this.

It has certainly come to a pretty pass in Catholicism where stating the actual rubrics and teachings get one targeted as ‘the liturgical police’.

Personally, I never felt that ‘name-calling’ was a legitimate tool in discussion but. . .

 

[snarflemike]

Um, okay, but Christians are supposed to care.

Yes, but the priest telling everybody, during the Mass, “Now turn to your neighbors and Care For Them,” is no solution. It would actually be counter-productive for many people, who would think, “What a load of horse-hay!” It is utterly artificial, something you might find being done by a bad motivational speaker.

 

[pnewton]

Threads like this serve no purpose, except to show others how petty we can be.

There is one purpose I like. This serves as a gauge at how far the past two popes have come at improving the Mass. When I started here in 2005, what was reported as abuse was much more jaw dropping, some of which might actually invalidate the Sacrament, and much was clearly illicit. Over the last couple of years the reports brought here seem much more like gnats to be strained than camels to avoid swallowing. The vast majority of stuff is even debatable if it is a liturgical abuse.

 

[stpurl]

I find that many parishes are run according to bad motivational type training sessions.
Let’s make a MISSION STATEMENT!
Let’s 'generate revenue"!
Let’s discuss goals!

Blah blah blah.

What ever happened to, “Let us know, love, and serve God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength, and love our neighbors as ourselves?”
Let’s celebrate Mass authentically; say the black, do the red. Obey the 10 commandments. Do the Spiritual and Corporal works of Mercy. Pray the rosary daily."

Seriously, if we just would do those things instead of looking for ways to reinvent the wheel, be ‘relevant’, ‘address needs’ etc, we would HAVE the ‘dynamic parishes’ without all the jargon and crapola social teachings!

 

[Bataar]

They need to ask themselves what the purpose of the Mass is and how does this help that purpose. It simply doesn’t.

 

[TC3033]

And plenty of Catholics do socialize, so those Protestants aren’t putting Catholics to shame.

We must go to church in an extremely different area. I thought Tolle hit the nail on the head.

Disclaimer, I’m not Catholic…but like Tolle said, when we go to my church it’s like family, everyone greets each other, knows each other and interact outside of church. Any fellowship at my wife’s parish just seems forced…maybe outside of a few cliques. It’s different, and it’s OK to admit. They had one decent fellowship time and the priest got rid of it, so even fewer fellowship

 

[Zach]

You only quoted part of my post. Again not everyone is into socializing with everyone else. I’ve been plenty of non Catholic services and functions. Lots of times all the socialing feels forced to me and some of the people seem, and some have even told me, like they just want to go home. It feels more like a cult to me than anything else.

 

[TC3033]

Lots of times all the socialing feels forced to me and some of the people seem, and some have even told me, like they just want to go home

We must be going to different non-Catholic services. I’ve never experienced that.

It feels more like a cult to me than anything else.

What you explained in your post (the top quote in this post) fits my wife’s parish to a tea, and I’d never say that her parish seems like a cult. That’s a very uncharitable (and honestly just overall strange) thing to say…