Group calls for Skylstad's resignation

[Asaph]

This is an interesting way to get people involved in paying for an abuse settlement - how is this the laity’s fault? See link - would this approach work with anyone here?

Asaph

.

kxly.com/news/?sect_rank=…story_id=10125

 

[johnnykins]

SPOKANE, Wash. (AP) – Spokane Bishop William Skylstad has rejected calls from prominent Catholics to resign over a proposed plan to pay victims of clergy sex abuse $48 million.

In an exchange of letters with four wealthy businessmen and church contributors who called for him to step aside, Skylstad also rejected demands to scrap the proposed settlement that is contained in a bankruptcy plan.

The correspondence, obtained by The Spokesman-Review and published Thursday, reveals deep divisions among some parishioners over who should pay to settle claims by abuse victims, and how much.

In a disclosure statement released in February, individual parishes are expected to contribute $10 million toward the settlement by the end of this year. A fundraising effort has begun.

The bishop is expected to raise another $6 million, secured by several large parishes, including Our Lady of Lourdes Cathedral. The remainder is expected to come from insurance claim settlements and sale of church properties.

“We detect a backlash in the parishes, which we believe will only become more active when the complete details of the settlement are disclosed to the parishioners,” the four businessmen wrote.

In their Feb. 20 letter after a meeting with Skylstad, the four men vowed “we will not contribute one dime to this unfortunate, costly and mistaken mediated settlement.”

They want Skylstad replaced by someone who would review the settlement and put the deal to a vote of parishioners.

“The faithful who are risking their property and money should have the same rights as the recipients of the funds. Who can possibly argue with the fairness of this plan?” they asked.

In a three-page reply, the bishop dismissed their demands, calling the settlement that would resolve about 150 sex abuse claims a challenging, yet necessary step to bring the church out of crisis.

“To put this settlement to the wind is a gamble no prudent man of business would consider,” the bishop wrote.

The four businessmen wrote back, taking exception to the bishop’s insistence that today’s Catholic community must atone for the actions of pedophile priests decades ago.
“We are the perpetrators of the abuse,” Skylstad wrote in reply. "That ‘we’ is the perceived community of bishops, priests and laity, in communities over a 50-year period. You may not like being in that ‘we,’ but that is the way it is."
Ford Elsaesser, a lawyer who represents the Association of Parishes, said Thursday the four businessmen don’t speak for the majority.

“The Association of Parishes has supported the plan and continues to work toward the confirmation and undertaking the obligations agreed to in the mediated settlement,” Elsaesser said, declining to say more because of a judge’s gag order.

Does His Excellency really believe that the laity (the vast majority of whom were never aware of the abuse - and those who were aware were often themselves victims or family members of victims) are in culpable in the same manner as Bishops and or priests who knew what was going on and covered up and enabled
the onging activities such that “WE” includes in equal part those same Bishops, priests and laity? It really is astounding to think His Excellency believes that Catholics in general are perceived to have participated in the abuse and cover-up. I don’t buy that at all. WE are not the perpetrators of the abuse - certain Bishops and clergy are. We are Catholics - and a part of that community. However it is abundantly clear that the VICTIMS of the abuse were the laity. That His Excellency would have the unmitigated gall to try to deflect the culpability for the acts of the clergy and hierarchy onto the laity is unconscionable. Yes we are Catholics and there may be no way for the laity to avoid having to bear the cost of the abuse scandal - but that is not because WE are the perpetrators. WE do not need to atone - the clergy and hierarchy who actually perpetrated, covered up and enabled this all to happen must atone.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Does His Excellency really believe that the laity (the vast majority of whom were never aware of the abuse - and those who were aware were often themselves victims or family members of victims) are in culpable in the same manner as Bishops and or priests who knew what was going on and covered up and enabled
the onging activities such that “WE” includes in equal part those same Bishops, priests and laity? It really is astounding to think His Excellency believes that Catholics in general are perceived to have participated in the abuse and cover-up. I don’t buy that at all. WE are not the perpetrators of the abuse - certain Bishops and clergy are. We are Catholics - and a part of that community. However it is abundantly clear that the VICTIMS of the abuse were the laity. That His Excellency would have the unmitigated gall to try to deflect the culpability for the acts of the clergy and hierarchy onto the laity is unconscionable. Yes we are Catholics and there may be no way for the laity to avoid having to bear the cost of the abuse scandal - but that is not because WE are the perpetrators. WE do not need to atone - the clergy and hierarchy who actually perpetrated, covered up and enabled this all to happen must atone.

So where does the money come from to pay this debt?

The bishops and priests are not getting rich off the jobs that they do and to blanketly accuse them of culpability is also wrong. You have no way of knowing who knew what or when they knew it. This borders on the sin of calumny.

So if we can not get the money out of the pockets of the over worked and under paid clergy then where does it come from?

Oh wait, I know, it should come from the Church and where does the Church get its money from? From its members.

If these parishes do not want to pay then they should not but they should be ready for foreclosure proceedings on their property as that is one sure way for the bankruptcy court to ensure that the debt is paid off.

 

[Asaph]

Borthers and Sisters

I am happy to see some back and forth on this once it got opened up again (I posted too much of the article and had to get it cut down!)

On the one hand, like they say “someone’s gotta pay…”. HExece’s implication that laity are to hold the bag on this was a thought provoker for me and not in a good way. While this seemed initially like just more chancery flatus on this topic, the idea that someone other than the individual perpetrators themselves bear responsibility was telling against the background of the Body of Christ - when one part suffers all the parts suffer. I wonder what would have happened, say in the Sixties, if enough outraged relatives or catholic police officials went to the papers to complain about this, or if inflential parties with money made a stink about it. To be honest, I don’t know if they tried. And ByzCath is right - that despite the assets of the RC church as a whole that are beyond the reach of the Spokane laity - this is going to come out of the pockets of the rank and file believers in that diocese at the end of the day.

On the other hand, years of obfuscation and conspiracy to blow this whole topic off have taken place on the highest levels of the US church and other places too. Furthermore, a lot of us were not even born when these events took place. Moreover, I know that if I said a peep about something as a layperson even today I would be held to a lot higher standard than if I went to the cops and even then I would have no guarantee of swift action. Case in point, when our Pastor was cut down on child porn charges not two years ago none of us were told about it at all until it was already in the papers that he was going to be turn himself in. Skylstad’s statement does seem to blame the victims a little bit.

I guess that we each as individual believers need to calculate the potential costs and benefits of our own actions as individuals if we are confronted with having to pay up or lose things that we might cherish over nothing that “we” obviously did. Ask yourself how well the people asking for this money know you and remember how you put these things in their hands and expected them to be properly cared for.

I for one would not contribute anything to such fundraising and let whatever was going to happen, happen. Maybe then we will be looking at a serious global effort to address the settlement issue.

Love,

Asaph

 

[Sabda]

Of course if the lawyers and those who hire those lawyers weren’t so greedy the diocese would not have to come up with such ridiculous sums of money.
Those who sued are members of the Church and as such should practice Christ-like virtues. Now that does not mean the guilty bishops and priest shouldn’t be punished but I think when you raise the bar that high your not really hurting the bishops or priest your mainly hurting the laity instead. That’s not justice! Your punishing the innocent for something they did not do! Why should the** entire **diocese be forced into bankruptcy because of the sins of a few? True justice would focus on those who actually DID the crime on not on those who had no part in it.

 

[lsusportsfan]

The lawsuits are of course a difficult issue. I am for paying what is just. However there have been some cases especially where the boys were like 16 or even 17 that I am tad upset we paid millions on

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I for one would not contribute anything to such fundraising and let whatever was going to happen, happen. Maybe then we will be looking at a serious global effort to address the settlement issue.

So where is the money to come from?

Would it be better for the bishop to close down some parishes and sell the property to raise the money?

 

[Asaph]

So where is the money to come from?

Would it be better for the bishop to close down some parishes and sell the property to raise the money?

BC - I think that if there is some level of culpability beyond the abusers and their protectors maybe the Vatican should look at helping with these settlements so this kind of thing would not happen.

As an aside, there have been comments about how much money the victims/attorneys generally receive. We can do the math to figure out an average amount but does anyone know/suspect how this amount would equate with what a victim would receive in compensation from an institution that was NOT the RC church?

Have a Nice Day

Asaph

 

[johnnykins]

Byz - you might want to re-read what I wrote:

So where does the money come from to pay this debt?

I wrote: “Yes we are Catholics and there may be no way for the laity to avoid having to bear the cost of the abuse scandal - but that is not because WE are the perpetrators.”

The bishops and priests are not getting rich off the jobs that they do and to blanketly accuse them of culpability is also wrong. You have no way of knowing who knew what or when they knew it. This borders on the sin of calumny.

I wrote: “Does His Excellency really believe that the laity (the vast majority of whom were never aware of the abuse - and those who were aware were often themselves victims or family members of victims) are in culpable in the same manner **as Bishops and or priests who knew what was going on and covered up and enabled
**the onging activities such that “WE” includes in equal part those same Bishops, priests and laity?” Emphasis added. Believe it or not, some did know!!

So if we can not get the money out of the pockets of the over worked and under paid clergy then where does it come from?

see above

Oh wait, I know, it should come from the Church and where does the Church get its money from? From its members.

see above

If these parishes do not want to pay then they should not but they should be ready for foreclosure proceedings on their property as that is one sure way for the bankruptcy court to ensure that the debt is paid off.

Maybe, but perhaps before you go off on a rant you should learn to read.

 

[Lance]

So where is the money to come from?

Would it be better for the bishop to close down some parishes and sell the property to raise the money?

I am sure he lives in a nice mansion with very expensive paintings, funiture, dinner ware and has a nice car. I suggest he start by selling off those things and living in a small apartment and driving a sub-compact car. He could cut the staff of the diocese, sell any unused/under used assests, buy only used vehicles in the future, etc. Whe he has cut his budget to the bare bones and there is no waste in the diocesan offices then he could go to the laity and ask if they want to raise more money or start to sell off churches.

 

[Titus]

I am sure he lives in a nice mansion with very expensive paintings, funiture, dinner ware and has a nice car.
Got any evidence for those assertions? I’m not saying there isn’t- but you’re slandering a bishop if you haven’t got the evidence.

I suggest he start by selling off those things and living in a small apartment and driving a sub-compact car. He could cut the staff of the diocese, sell any unused/under used assests, buy only used vehicles in the future, etc.
How wasteful do you think the Diocese is? It needs staff to run it, you know!

Whe he has cut his budget to the bare bones and there is no waste in the diocesan offices then he could go to the laity and ask if they want to raise more money or start to sell off churches.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I think that’s a good point – the people who were responsible (and that definitely includes the Bishop) must pay something. Let us see the Bishop making sacrifices – like letting his housekeeper go and run the vaccuum cleaner himself – before calling on the laity

 

[johnnykins]

Just thought this thread needed to be brought forward since it has come up again as a news item in another thread. The opening post here directs us to a most unfortunate letter from His Excellency.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Maybe, but perhaps before you go off on a rant you should learn to read.

johnnykins,
I am going to suggest two things to you.

First, charity.

Second, maybe you should learn to read yourself as the reply you replying to so nastily was not to you, it was to Asaph.

I await your apology.

 

[BAIRBRE]

I think more people should contact the Pope and let him be aware of what’s going on in our parishes. Try writing to Monsignor Gabriele Caccia, Assessor: ALSO ASK HIM FOR MORE INTERNATIONAL PRIESTS TO AMERICA.

Apostolic Nunciature
Monsignor Gabriele Cassia, Assessor
Apostolic Nunciature
3339 Massachusetts Avenue N. W.
Washington, D. C. 20008-3687

He is US Diplomatic representation from the Vatican and he will notify Pope Benedict XVI.

Across America, closures and mergers are everywhere. What is to become of our churches? We all need the truth.
This is an emergency.

In our little parish, people are so upset. My husband was talking to a retired farmer who stated that he was considering the Episcopal church in town. Many think this way. I have to write too. Strenght in numbers…

Go. go out and do God’s work…“your honesty and frankness will expose you to problems but your work should not stop, for it means the world to so many people.”
MOTHER TERESA, CALCUTTA, INDIA

Then put the rest in God’s hands…

 

[goofyjim]

So where does the money come from to pay this debt?

The bishops and priests are not getting rich off the jobs that they do and to blanketly accuse them of culpability is also wrong. You have no way of knowing who knew what or when they knew it. This borders on the sin of calumny.

So if we can not get the money out of the pockets of the over worked and under paid clergy then where does it come from?

Oh wait, I know, it should come from the Church and where does the Church get its money from? From its members.

If these parishes do not want to pay then they should not but they should be ready for foreclosure proceedings on their property as that is one sure way for the bankruptcy court to ensure that the debt is paid off.

Of course, it should come from the overworked and underpaid laity who often have their families to take care of.

 

[johnnykins]

johnnykins,
I am going to suggest two things to you.

First, charity.

Second, maybe you should learn to read yourself as the reply you replying to so nastily was not to you, it was to Asaph.

I await your apology.

Really Byz??? Perhaps you might want to explain why you quoted me if you were replying to Asaph. Go and look - your own disengenousness is there for all to see. See post 3

Might I suggest - First, honesty - or maybe as one who has posted on this board for as long as you have (3 years and 4000+ entries) - ignorance of how to quote someone should be addressed…

Again, learn to read - and take responsibility for your own quotes.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Really Byz??? Perhaps you might want to explain why you quoted me if you were replying to Asaph. Go and look - your own disengenousness is there for all to see. See post 3

Might I suggest - First, honesty - or maybe as one who has posted on this board for as long as you have (3 years and 4000+ entries) - ignorance of how to quote someone should be addressed…

Again, learn to read - and take responsibility for your own quotes.

Again, I will be the bigger man and respond in a charitable manner. If you would respond to questions in a timely manner things such as this would not happen. Especially when you respond in such a negative hateful manner. If you look back you will see that the part of my post you quoted was almost identical to my response to Asaph.

Having said that, you are now on my ignore list so feel free to spew what ever hatred you want towards me as I will no longer see it.

 

[Walt_Oliver]

Warning: Posts containing personal attacks have been deleted from this thread. Keep it charitable, folks.

 

[Lance]

I am sure he lives in a nice mansion with very expensive paintings, funiture, dinner ware and has a nice car.
Got any evidence for those assertions? I’m not saying there isn’t- but you’re slandering a bishop if you haven’t got the evidence.

I suggest he start by selling off those things and living in a small apartment and driving a sub-compact car. He could cut the staff of the diocese, sell any unused/under used assests, buy only used vehicles in the future, etc.
How wasteful do you think the Diocese is? It needs staff to run it, you know!

Whe he has cut his budget to the bare bones and there is no waste in the diocesan offices then he could go to the laity and ask if they want to raise more money or start to sell off churches.

http://www.spokesmanreview.com/stories/2005/oct/11/chancery11tb_10-11-2005_025NIHP.jpg
I don’t know anyone who lives in anything like this. I don’t know how wasteful the diocese is. All I am saying is make certain there is no waste, cut expenses like private companies do when they are in financial trouble. Don’t be like the government, who just raises taxes when they need more money, and ask people to give more until you have done everything possible to cut expenses.