Group may sue over cross

[_Abyssinia]

The nation’s largest association of atheists and agnostics has threatened to sue the city of Whiteville after months of ignored complaints about a religious cross atop the town’s government water tower.

The Freedom From Religion Foundation says the cross, located on public property, is in violation of the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, which states that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof …”

The organization threatens to seek a mandatory injunction to remove the Western Whiteville water tower cross, a judgment against Bellar and the city for attorney fees and other litigation expenses.

“This letter is my clients’ final demand that the cross be permanently removed from the Whiteville water tower,” Attorney Alvin Harris said in a letter on behalf of the foundation.

The Freedom From Religion Foundation, based in Madison, Wis., has more than 17,000 members. Last week, the organization voiced complaint about a Bell County, Ky., school district hosting prayers at sporting events. It also has recently fought Bible distributions taking place on public school grounds in the South.

“They’re the terrorists,” Bellar said. “It’s not us.”

He said the city is not forcing its residents to attend church but that the city would probably lose the threatened legal battle.

“No court of final resort has ever upheld the government’s permanent display of a Latin cross on public land as constitutional,” Rebecca Markert, a Freedom From Religion attorney, said in a Dec. 8, 2010, letter to Bellar. “The inherent religious significance of the Latin cross is undeniable and is not disguisable.”

Bellar says a property owner has agreed to relocate the cross on private property near U.S. 64, a four-lane highway that Bellar says the cross would be more visible from.

“It will be a shallow victory for them if they win,” he said.

jacksonsun.com/article/20111004/NEWS01/110040323/Group-may-sue-over-cross

wreg.com/news/wreg-whiteville-to-remove-cross-from-water-tower-20111003,0,5501601.story

 

[Mar044]

I can’t wait for the these people to burn in the lake of fire

 

[Hokomai]

I can’t wait for the these people to burn in the lake of fire

Really? You want 17,000 people who honestly believe that religion should nt be supported by the state to spend all eternity burning? And you worship a loving God that would do that to them (and me?). And you call this good?

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Really? You want 17,000 people who honestly believe that religion should nt be supported by the state to spend all eternity burning? And you worship a loving God that would do that to them (and me?). And you call this good?

Its called Justice. Deny the Maker and He will deny you. Its fair, isn’t it?

 

[Dale_M]

Its called Justice. Deny the Maker and He will deny you. Its fair, isn’t it?

While I understand the anger felt regarding the challenge to the water tower cross, Christ did command us to get past our anger.

44 But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you,

45 that you may be children of your heavenly Father, for he makes his sun rise on the bad and the good, and causes rain to fall on the just and the unjust.

46 For if you love those who love you, what recompense will you have? Do not the tax collectors* do the same?

usccb.org/bible/scripture.cfm?bk=Matthew&ch=5

Better than condemning our persecutors and wishing for their eternal punishment, we should pray for their conversion.

But yes, I understand the initial feelings of anger.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

While I understand the anger felt regarding the challenge to the water tower cross, Christ did command us to get past our anger.

usccb.org/bible/scripture.cfm?bk=Matthew&ch=5

Better than condemning our persecutors and wishing for their eternal punishment, we should pray for their conversion.

But yes, I understand the initial feelings of anger.

Who’s angry? I am simply citing the Justice that Jesus cited.

I do pray for their conversion. However, God is the Alpha and Omega, He will judge as He judges based on the terms He sets. I don’t play by my rules, I play by His.

 

[Dale_M]

Who’s angry? I am simply citing the Justice that Jesus cited.

I was referring to the Mar044’'s comment, which you seemed to be defending.

 

[bexdad]

huh, am I missing something?..Did Congress make a law putting that cross there? Since they’re constantly citing the First Amendment, shouldn’t we finally start looking at what it acually says instead of ruling according to phrases that were left out of it.

 

[vz71]

I can’t wait for the these people to burn in the lake of fire

I would prefer their conversion.

 

[vz71]

Its called Justice. Deny the Maker and He will deny you. Its fair, isn’t it?

Since we all had a part in the murder of God a couple thousand years ago, I do not think I am interested in fair.
I prefer mercy.

If they wish to sue to have it removed, that is their right.
If they can find a judge that will have the cross removed, that is their right.

If the people wish to move the cross to private property where it cannot be removed and is much more visible to more people…that is their right.

But while this cross is being moved to a better location we should all be praying for those that are forcing it.

 

[Wolseley]

When is somebody going to start a Freedom From The ACLU Foundation, to oppose virtually every facet of the ACLU’s involvement in public life?

“We have no problem with what the ACLU does; we only demand that it be confined to the insides of their offices and homes and does not impact on the rest of us. We have the right to be free of the ACLU’s influence.”

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

But yes, I understand the initial feelings of anger.

I don’t. Anger against abortionists or persecutors of fellow Catholics is understandable - but such deep anger over the placement of a cross? Especially when the solution was so simple? Save such outrage for something that calls for it.

 

[Hokomai]

Its called Justice. Deny the Maker and He will deny you. Its fair, isn’t it?

Um … fair in this case might be the maker denying me the right to build a big sculpture on public land promoting my non-belief. All eternity in a lake of fire seems rather disproportionate for a disagreement over the role and function of public art. Also seems odd that people would worship, adore, praise and give thanks for the great glory of a God who would do such things.

 

[Not_Sure_1]

people seem to forget the “prohibit the free excercise thereof” part of the Constitution.

The establishment clause is only there so that there is no National Church, like the ANglicans in Britain and the Presbyterians in Scotland. THere is no group that everyone has to join. THat is the sole meaning of the establishment clause.

 

[Hokomai]

people seem to forget the “prohibit the free excercise thereof” part of the Constitution.

The establishment clause is only there so that there is no National Church, like the ANglicans in Britain and the Presbyterians in Scotland. THere is no group that everyone has to join. THat is the sole meaning of the establishment clause.

When you use public property to endorse a religion (which is what is happening here) you force everyone to take part in that religion. would you be equally supportive of a Hindu sculpture? Or a Satanist one? Keeping religion free and private keeps everyone safe. The United States principle is wise, and should be copied by nations throughout the world.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

When you use public property to endorse a religion (which is what is happening here) you force everyone to take part in that religion. would you be equally supportive of a Hindu sculpture? Or a Satanist one? Keeping religion free and private keeps everyone safe. The United States principle is wise, and should be copied by nations throughout the world.

If I see a McDonald’s sign, it doesn’t make everyone participate in McDonald’s.

 

[Hokomai]

If I see a McDonald’s sign, it doesn’t make everyone participate in McDonald’s.

It does if it is on public land, which is what we are discussing here.

 

[bexdad]

Um … fair in this case might be the maker denying me the right to build a big sculpture on public land promoting my non-belief. All eternity in a lake of fire seems rather disproportionate for a disagreement over the role and function of public art. Also seems odd that people would worship, adore, praise and give thanks for the great glory of a God who would do such things.

…nah that argument doesn’t work…Athiests use public money to mock Religion and force their non belief on us all the time and get away with it quite easily, despite it being exposed and protested (which is what they want)…And God doesn’t “do such things”. You’ve got it backwards. We choose to reject Him not the other way around.

 

[bexdad]

It does if it is on public land, which is what we are discussing here.

Of course not…Looking at a hamburger ad doesn’t mean you have to buy a hamburger. Just don’t buy it.

 

[Tenofovir]

Really? You want 17,000 people who honestly believe that religion should nt be supported by the state to spend all eternity burning? And you worship a loving God that would do that to them (and me?). And you call this good?

Aren’t you embarrassed to be siding with these fanatics? Do you think a rational, reasonable, sane person would worry about a cross atop a water tower?

Can you see that it is not religion which makes people stupid, violent and intolerant? Just perhaps stupid, intolerant, etc people could be religious or not, and still be nasty?