Group steps in for US bishops, collects Vatican-requested data

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The Vatican is asking bishops’ conferences to undertake the survey in preparation for an upcoming synod of bishops, to be held Oct. 5-19, 2014, on the theme “Pastoral Challenges of the family in the context of evangelization.”
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The Vatican questionnaire was sent Oct. 18 from Baldisseri, the general secretary of the synod’s Vatican office, to the presidents of the world’s individual bishops’ conferences.
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It asks the conferences to quiz their populations on topics that sometimes have sharply divided the U.S. church, like the Catholic teaching prohibiting the use of artificial contraception, the possibility of a divorced Catholic to remarry or receive Communion, and the number of young people choosing to live together before marrying.
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A spokeswoman for the U.S. bishops’ conference, Helen Osman, said in a statement Thursday “it will be up to each bishop to determine what would be the most useful way of gathering information to provide to Rome.”
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Responses to the questions posed by the Vatican have been mixed, Hale said.
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“Dozens of separated and divorced Catholics noted that they don’t feel welcomed in their Church communities because they don’t have access to the sacraments,” he said. “Once again, dozens of gay and lesbian Catholics expressed the same sentiment. One noted how she felt like her treatment in her parish was [similar] to the military’s ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ policy.”
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ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/group-steps-us-bishops-collects-vatican-requested-data
 
Your quote of this Fishwrap article, though long enough to violate copyright and forum rules, did not provide enough context about the headline. I was left wondering “What groups steps in?” So I read the Fishwrap article itself which explained that “the nonprofit Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good” made the survey available online. It is unclear whether they have permission or endorsement from the USCCB to do so. This nonprofit, according to its Wikipedia article, “is concerned with addressing and reconciling pro-life and pro-choice views in the Catholic Church.” To me that sounds problematic. The group’s own website seems to stress an unambiguous pro-life stance, while calling for other social justice issues to be addressed, it seems that their politics lean more to the liberal social justice side of things. Catholic Culture’s review of this website, always a good litmus test in lieu of other evidence, shows “RED - DANGER!” code for this group’s fidelity to the Magisterium and “Poor” resources grade. Catholic Culture explainst that this group is led by former Democratic advisors, is influenced by +Bernardin’s “seamless garment” mumbo jumbo, and attempts to justify stances that are “personally opposed to abortion but I’ll pass all the laws I want” supporting it.

So I do not see how any good can come from a renegade group of heretics posting a survey for the public to take. It’s going to end up with skewed results and nobody will be helped by their effort to take matters into their own hands. They need to be obedient to the bishops of the USCCB, not try to one-up them in the public square.
 
Elizium23 said:
This nonprofit, according to its Wikipedia article, “is concerned with addressing and reconciling pro-life and pro-choice views in the Catholic Church.” To me that sounds problematic. The group’s own website seems to stress an unambiguous pro-life stance, while calling for other social justice issues to be addressed, it seems that their politics lean more to the liberal social justice side of things.

So I do not see how any good can come from a renegade group of heretics posting a survey for the public to take. It’s going to end up with skewed results and nobody will be helped by their effort to take matters into their own hands. They need to be obedient to the bishops of the USCCB, not try to one-up them in the public square.
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To be fair, anyone can put anything on wikipedia. If their website contradicts the wikipedia entry, I’d be more inclined to trust the official website.

I don’t quite see how to reconcile your statement that they “stress an unambiguous pro-life stance” with calling them “a renegade group of heretics.” I trust there is more to that story.
 
agnes_therese said:
To be fair, anyone can put anything on wikipedia. If their website contradicts the wikipedia entry, I’d be more inclined to trust the official website.

I don’t quite see how to reconcile your statement that they “stress an unambiguous pro-life stance” with calling them “a renegade group of heretics.” I trust there is more to that story.
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I have only given a cursory glance at the official website materials. Official “About Us” pages of heretical renegade organizations are often couched in code language and seek to deceive visitors to believe they are looking at a truly Catholic site.

You will do well to note my citation of Catholic Culture, which is a very reliable resource for determining the fidelity of various websites without having to do your own homework. You are correct in that anyone can put anything on a Wikipedia page, and I found some interesting additions in the page history that did not survive. These edits indicate that not only Catholic Culture have panned this group, but also LifeNews.com called Catholics in Alliance “a fake Catholic site” and CatholicVote.org says it “misrepresents the Catholic Church” (all three of the above websites are very reputable, faithful and reliable when it comes to information about the faith. The edits also indicate that this group’s co-founder, Chris Korzen, has called the Catholic League and the Family Research Council “radical voices”. Even more interesting is what the Catholic League itself has to say about Catholics In Alliance, which is that it is a “dummy Catholic group” funded by George Soros, notorious proponent of the Culture of Death. The Catholic League also says that Cardinal +George’s call for “legal protection of the unborn” was rejected by Catholics in Alliance, and closed with "We hope they amend their ways and fall in line with Catholic thought on this grave matter. If they do not, they will become indistinguishable from Catholics for Choice, a fully discredited organization.”

So I am sorry if you are trying to attack my reliance on Wikipedia for information about this group, but as I have proven here, the facts bear out the assertion that still stands there in the article. It doesn’t matter what this site puts on their “About Us” even if it should deceive me into thinking it represents something “unambiguously pro-life” (I actually wrote that it “seems that way” betraying my own doubt of what their true motives are, so don’t misquote me,) but what matters more is their action and their underpinnings as a left-wing political action group that seeks to undermine the Culture of Life by pretending to be our ally.
 
gracepoole said:
ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/group-steps-us-bishops-collects-vatican-requested-data
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Well, this is really dumb. If those folks can receive communion then there is no mortal sin that can deprive one from receiving communion. I don’t know how they think this is going to solve any problem at all. It is just like the Vatican appointed study in the sixties which came out in favor of contraception and foced Paul VI to step in and intervene. That is when he published Humane Vitae. It nearly caused a schism in the Church, the liberal Theologians and Nuns were making asses out of themselves all over the country. It didn’t calm down until the 80s. By then many of them had either left the Priesthood or Religious life or the Church or had died. And much of that is still hanging on in our major Catholic Universities. Believe me, give them an inch and they will start the whole mess all over again. Who do you think supports the National Catholic Reporter?

Linus2nd
 
Elizium23 said:
Your quote of this Fishwrap article, though long enough to violate copyright and forum rules, did not provide enough context about the headline. I was left wondering “What groups steps in?” So I read the Fishwrap article itself which explained that “the nonprofit Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good” made the survey available online. It is unclear whether they have permission or endorsement from the USCCB to do so. This nonprofit, according to its Wikipedia article, “is concerned with addressing and reconciling pro-life and pro-choice views in the Catholic Church.” To me that sounds problematic. The group’s own website seems to stress an unambiguous pro-life stance, while calling for other social justice issues to be addressed, it seems that their politics lean more to the liberal social justice side of things. Catholic Culture’s review of this website, always a good litmus test in lieu of other evidence, shows “RED - DANGER!” code for this group’s fidelity to the Magisterium and “Poor” resources grade. Catholic Culture explainst that this group is led by former Democratic advisors, is influenced by +Bernardin’s “seamless garment” mumbo jumbo, and attempts to justify stances that are “personally opposed to abortion but I’ll pass all the laws I want” supporting it.

So I do not see how any good can come from a renegade group of heretics posting a survey for the public to take. It’s going to end up with skewed results and nobody will be helped by their effort to take matters into their own hands. They need to be obedient to the bishops of the USCCB, not try to one-up them in the public square.
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This survey will, unfortunately, certainly be used by heterodox groups to voice their opinions. NCR and others like them will be all over it to complain about Church teachings they don’t like 😦
 
Elizium23 said:
Your quote of this Fishwrap article, though long enough to violate copyright and forum rules, did not provide enough context about the headline. I was left wondering “What groups steps in?” So I read the Fishwrap article itself…
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My apologies for making you read the article itself! :rolleyes:
 
gracepoole said:
My apologies for making you read the article itself! :rolleyes:
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You should be sorry. I don’t much care to give the Fishwrap any traffic, even though my AdBlocker is fully engaged for the dive into schism. Did you read your own quote? You copy-pasted plenty but not enough to make any sense.
 
McCall1981 said:
This survey will, unfortunately, certainly be used by heterodox groups to voice their opinions. NCR and others like them will be all over it to complain about Church teachings they don’t like 😦
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And it will most certainly NOT be used by the US Bishops or by the Vatican for purposes of background for the synod.
 
Elizium23 said:
You should be sorry. I don’t much care to give the Fishwrap any traffic, even though my AdBlocker is fully engaged for the dive into schism. Did you read your own quote? You copy-pasted plenty but not enough to make any sense.
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Wow, your comments only increase in charity and kindness. Do you also rely on abstracts to form opinion and inform you? How is criticism offered from someone who doesn’t anticipate the need to read the full text before commenting meant to be seriously considered?
 
Corki said:
And it will most certainly NOT be used by the US Bishops or by the Vatican for purposes of background for the synod.
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Exactly, and the statement that came with this survey also makes this abundently clear 👍
 
“Dozens of separated and divorced Catholics noted that they don’t feel welcomed in their Church communities because they don’t have access to the sacraments,” he said. “Once again, dozens of gay and lesbian Catholics expressed the same sentiment. One noted how she felt like her treatment in her parish was [similar] to the military’s ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ policy.”
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Code: 
        [usccb.org/about/doctrine/publications/upload/ministry-to-persons-of-homosexual-iInclination.pdf](http://www.usccb.org/about/doctrine/publications/upload/ministry-to-persons-of-homosexual-iInclination.pdf)
For some persons, revealing their homosexual tendencies to certain close friends, family members, a spiritual director, confessor, or members of a Church support group may provide some spiritual and emotional help and aid them in their growth in the Christian life. In the context of parish life, however, general public self- disclosures are not helpful and should not be encouraged
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.
 
Elizium23 said:
Your quote of this Fishwrap article, though long enough to violate copyright and forum rules, did not provide enough context about the headline. I was left wondering “What groups steps in?” So I read the Fishwrap article itself which explained that “the nonprofit Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good” made the survey available online. It is unclear whether they have permission or endorsement from the USCCB to do so. This nonprofit, according to its Wikipedia article, “is concerned with addressing and reconciling pro-life and pro-choice views in the Catholic Church.” To me that sounds problematic. The group’s own website seems to stress an unambiguous pro-life stance, while calling for other social justice issues to be addressed, it seems that their politics lean more to the liberal social justice side of things. Catholic Culture’s review of this website, always a good litmus test in lieu of other evidence, shows “RED - DANGER!” code for this group’s fidelity to the Magisterium and “Poor” resources grade. Catholic Culture explainst that this group is led by former Democratic advisors, is influenced by +Bernardin’s “seamless garment” mumbo jumbo, and attempts to justify stances that are “personally opposed to abortion but I’ll pass all the laws I want” supporting it.

So I do not see how any good can come from a renegade group of heretics posting a survey for the public to take. It’s going to end up with skewed results and nobody will be helped by their effort to take matters into their own hands. They need to be obedient to the bishops of the USCCB, not try to one-up them in the public square.
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I wish the Fishwrap would keep their politics out of my faith.
Founded in 2005 by Alexia Kelley and a network of religious Democratic activists and closely affiliated organizations, Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good (CACG) is a *political *nonprofit group dedicated to generating support from the Catholic community for leftwing candidates, causes, and legislation.
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discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=7606
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Either discuss the issues or skip the thread
 
‘c’atholic Left circulates survey on Church life and collects the data. What could go wrong?

A telling comment under this blog post:
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tzard:
Notice the survey by this group is reportedly “based on” the vatican survey – yea right….It’s totally different (you can lookup the actual vatican questions online if you wish)

The phraseology in this survey is leading and manipulative. “How does your parish community welcome same-sex couples” – no such implication or vagueities in the vatican survey.

I’m not going to waste my time on the CACG “survey”.

As for the vatican survey – I can see it as being useful to gather information independent of polling organizations or the usual media. Some of the real questions start out like: Describe the Church’s teaching on X then it asks whether the person has difficulties in accepting or putting it into practice – also question on how the teachings are being promulgated…. Good questions all. (source: The England/Wales Surveymonkey questionnaire)
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Also thanks to a commenter on Fr. Z’s blog, here are the authentic questions and the authentic text of the authentic Vatican transmission.

It’s an interesting comparison. As we can see, the Fishwrap headline is completely false, a bald-faced lie, not even trying to approach the truth: 'c’atholics in Alliance is collecting false data based on made-up questions. They are not collecting “the data the Vatican requested” they are collecting something entirely different.
 
Elizium23 said:
Also thanks to a commenter on Fr. Z’s blog, here are the authentic questions and the authentic text of the authentic Vatican transmission.

It’s an interesting comparison. As we can see, the Fishwrap headline is completely false, a bald-faced lie, not even trying to approach the truth: 'c’atholics in Alliance is collecting false data based on made-up questions. They are not collecting “the data the Vatican requested” they are collecting something entirely different.
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Right, because if they collected what the Vatican requested, it wouldn’t help their ideology. So they will ignore the actual survey and just make up their own.

It’s not surprising though, I think anyone could tell they were going to do this from the moment this survey was announced 🤷
 
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