Groups lose nearly $300,000 from Catholic charity over gay marriage issue

[PeterJ99]

LGBT individuals are NOT “disordered.” Their sexual identity is NOT “disordered.” Their natural desire for companionship and intimacy is NOT “disordered”. It should be affirmed and celebrated just as you are to be affirmed and celebrated.

Their desire is not “natural”, even if it does happen in nature. Also, repentance must happen before the conversion can take place, and the soul be affirmed and celebrated.

You should read Romans 1 and into 2, and Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

PeterJ99

 

[SaintAugustine]

While traditionalists are turning gay marriage into a moral, religious, and political debate, and treating the stories of LGBT individuals as objects to be scorned, MILLIONS of LGBT individuals are deep in pain.

I think Jesus would probably sit next to them, listen to their stories, ask good questions, and agree to walk through life with them, loving them the whole way.

I don’t think He would engage in online debates about whether or not their very existence is moral.

Wow. Jesus is SO lucky to have you speaking for Him, instead of the Catholic Church and her Bishops.

As far as “their very existence” being immoral, I haven’t read any poster who has said that. That would be a straw man argument. Loving people does not mean affirming them in their sin. You love them as sinners and call them to repentance. That is what Jesus did and does.

 

[LiberalPrincess]

Wow. Jesus is SO lucky to have you speaking for Him, instead of the Catholic Church and her Bishops.

As far as “their very existence” being immoral, I haven’t read any poster who has said that. That would be a straw man argument. Loving people does not mean affirming them in their sin. You love them as sinners and call them to repentance. That is what Jesus did and does.

By claiming that their sexuality is “disordered”, you are basically saying that their very existence is tragic and immoral. Language like this only serves to dehumanize and marginalize others.

Unlike you, I think we should affirm the full humanity and dignity of every human being regardless of their sexual orientation or gender identity.

 

[SaintAugustine]

By claiming that their sexuality is “disordered”, you are basically saying that their very existence is tragic and immoral. Language like this only serves to dehumanize and marginalize others.

No it doesn’t. Masturbation is disordered, as well. It doesn’t make everyone who masturbates a disordered person. Your reasoning is flawed.

Unlike you, I think we should affirm the full humanity and dignity of every human being regardless of their sexual orientation or gender identity.

Don’t falsely accuse me. No where have I said that a person who has a disordered sexual desire, whether homosexual or self-focused, does not possess full humanity and dignity. You are very uncharitable to lie about me and other posters in that manner.

 

[LiberalPrincess]

No it doesn’t. Masturbation is disordered, as well. It doesn’t make everyone who masturbates a disordered person. Your reasoning is flawed.

Don’t falsely accuse me. No where have I said that a person who has a disordered sexual desire, whether homosexual or self-focused, does not possess full humanity and dignity. You are very uncharitable to lie about me and other posters in that manner.

I think you should talk to a gay Catholic in real life who has struggled to reconcile their homosexuality and their faith.

Too often, discussions surrounding the “issue of homosexuality” in the church only serve to isolate them, particularly when “compassion” often feels like pity and (at worst) intolerance cloaked in language of compassion.

You will see the devastating effects these words can have on gay people and their loved ones.

 

[SaintAugustine]

I think you should talk to a gay Catholic in real life who has struggled to reconcile their homosexuality and their faith.

I have. I’m not surprised you assumed I haven’t. Typical.

Too often, discussions surrounding the “issue of homosexuality” in the church only serve to isolate them, particularly when “compassion” often feels like pity and (at worst) intolerance cloaked in language of compassion.

You will see the devastating effects these words can have on gay people and their loved ones.

The serious Catholics I have spoken to live chaste lives, recognizing that their homosexual desires are disordered desires. They are very similar to other Catholics who struggle with grave, sinful desires.

“Progressive” Catholics affirm people in their sin, by saying “don’t worry about it,” God accepts you regardless of how much you sin. You don’t even need to bother confessing your homosexual acts, masturbation, artificial birth control, etc, etc. Such action leads to spiritual death. It is the cruelest thing you can do to someone.

 

[LiberalPrincess]

No it doesn’t. Masturbation is disordered, as well. It doesn’t make everyone who masturbates a disordered person. Your reasoning is flawed.

Unlike masturbation, you cannot change your sexual orientation and who you are attracted to.

 

[SaintAugustine]

Unlike masturbation, you cannot change your sexual orientation and who you are attracted to.

Debatable.

Regardless, people who struggle with masturbation, strong lust towards others, pedophilia, etc. all have to struggle against such disordered desires. Do you think people with same sex attraction are somehow special sinners, who don’t have to or can’t?

 

[phil19034]

To the Liberal Princess:

I used to think like you do. That gay people have the right be live their life, etc. I believe homosexuality is not a choice, it is some kind of bio-chemical disorder which science has yet to understand. I believe people do NOT choose to be gay. The Catholic Church recongizes this.

However, God calls for homosexuals to practice chastity. Just like all single heterosexuals are called to chastity. Homosexual acts (not homosexual people) are disordered because they cannot result in child birth. Just like masturbation is also disordered. Homosexual acts and masturbation are both forms of fornication (just like sex outside of marriage). Fornication is called evil by Jesus (Mark 7:21).

I think today, people want to think homosexual acts are “OK” because people believe that pre-martial sex is “OK”. BOTH ARE GRAVE, EVIL SINS AGAINST GOD. (And I have had pre-martial sex, which I have confessed when I was a lapped Catholic)

Mark 7:21:21-23 For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, fornication, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, envy, slander, pride, follishness. **All these evil things come from within, and they defile a man. **

Below is the entire CCC teaching regarding homosexual people and acts.

Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. ** Basing itself on Sacred Scripture**, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that **“homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.”**142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved. (2333)

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection. (2347)

 

[mlz]

LGBT individuals are NOT “disordered.” Their sexual identity is NOT “disordered.” Their natural desire for companionship and intimacy is NOT “disordered”. It should be affirmed and celebrated just as you are to be affirmed and celebrated.

If you are Catholic and follow the teachings of the Church who is the Mother Church who cares for those in it you would know that the teachings of the Church state that being gay is termed by her as “disordered” and also to show compassion and ask that those that are so should live lives of celibacy as do those heterosexual but not married. We must understand and love those who must bear this cross as do all who follow Christ as we all have crosses to bear. We must understand the teaching of the Church as She is so wise in helping us as a guide to live life to our fullest for Him!

mlz

 

[phil19034]

Unlike masturbation, you cannot change your sexual orientation and who you are attracted to.

I agree with your statement here. And I agree that you must treat the sinner with kindness and respect. But saying that homosexual ACTS are OK is like telling a thief that stealing is OK. It’s still a sin.

People need to understand the difference… being gay is not a sin. But having gay sex is a sin. I know a gay man who often wears female shirts. He comes to mass daily and attends the Rosary afterwards. He doesn’t receive communion, but he is there trying to live the life God wants him to live. I don’t know about his sex life, but I do know that he takes his faith seriously.

And in case someone is going to mention him not taking communion, I don’t take communion either because I’m in a illicit marriage (which I’m trying to fix).

I agree we must love all of God’s children, but we must not approve of any sin.

God Bless!

 

[EastWest]

LGBT individuals are NOT “disordered.” Their sexual identity is NOT “disordered.” Their natural desire for companionship and intimacy is NOT “disordered”. It should be affirmed and celebrated just as you are to be affirmed and celebrated.

First of all up until a several years ago, the APA stated that homosexuality was a “mental disorder”. Then later they changed their mind.

Second…there’s no such thing as a “progressive” Catholic, “liberal” Catholic, etc…you’re either a Catholic or your’re not. A person may have a liberal or progressive way of thinking; but you’re either Catholic or you’re not…period!!! There’s no compromise with REVEALED TRUTH!!!

Furthermore, the Church isn’t condemning the person, they’re condemning the ‘act’; as several persons as stated. I feel that you already know this.

In addition, I doubt that Pope Francis is a “left-winger” either. He just excommunicated an Australian priest for promnoting gay marriage,

Is it a possibility that you’re promoting a particular agenda?: confused:

PS: You don’t need to scream.​

“Love without Truth is blind” 1 Cor 13:1

 

[EastWest]

While traditionalists are turning gay marriage into a moral, religious, and political debate, and treating the stories of LGBT individuals as objects to be scorned, MILLIONS of LGBT individuals are deep in pain.

I think Jesus would probably sit next to them, listen to their stories, ask good questions, and agree to walk through life with them, loving them the whole way.

I don’t think He would engage in online debates about whether or not their very existence is moral.

I’m sure Jesus would do all the things things you say, with them. Jesus Christ loves everybody!!! But I doubt very much He would condone their sexual acts.

BTW: do you know of any other of God’s creatures that are LGBT?

---

“Love without Truth is blind” 1 Cor 13:1

 

[YoungTradCath]

Unlike masturbation, you cannot change your sexual orientation and who you are attracted to.

Perhaps, but that is not the point. You can control your actions. Attraction is not a sin, whether heterosexual or homosexual. Acting on these desires is sinful unless one is in a real marriage.

 

[CatholicSheila]

I think you should talk to a gay Catholic in real life who has struggled to reconcile their homosexuality and their faith.

Too often, discussions surrounding the “issue of homosexuality” in the church only serve to isolate them, particularly when “compassion” often feels like pity and (at worst) intolerance cloaked in language of compassion.

You will see the devastating effects these words can have on gay people and their loved ones.

Why do you assume that all gay Catholics have an issue with the churches wording?

Homosexual acts (not people) are disordered.

As a gay Catholic, it was not the Churches wording that caused me problems. It was the world telling me that it was ok to be involved in sexual sin. It was coming to terms with truth that set me free, and refusing to buy into the worlds lies.

From my perspective it is the non-Christian world that behaves with intolerance. If a non-Christian knows I struggle with homosexual attraction I am pitied and I am told to disregard my religious beliefs in favor of what they believe. No acceptance that* I* get to choose how I live my life.

I often have a problem with how Christians treat homosexuals, but the problem is not the Churches teaching.

 

[Michael57]

Because for some, their faith informs them that EVERYONE should be treated with dignity, equality and respect.

So what, exactly does that mean?

Who is not being treated with “dignity, equality, and respect” in the Catholic Church?

Please give an example or two?

 

[Darken_Rahl]

Because for some, their faith informs them that EVERYONE should be treated with dignity, equality and respect.

You are confusing equality with equivalence. Besides, our common faith informs us on these matters. Anything other than what the Church has to say is not of God, but of our own pride. That’s how we came upon original sin in the first place. Why do we insist on repeating the mistakes of Adam and Eve? God allows us to know our history so as to avoid those same mistakes.

As Catholics, who can argue with this statement?

As Catholics, who can’t argue with this statement, as it is being misapplied? If we call anything “love,” we can justify anything by saying “love thy neighbor.” Easy enough to justify mercy killings, euthanasia, and anything we want if we redefine love.

While traditionalists are turning gay marriage into a moral, religious, and political debate, and treating the stories of LGBT individuals as objects to be scorned, MILLIONS of LGBT individuals are deep in pain.

I think Jesus would probably sit next to them, listen to their stories, ask good questions, and agree to walk through life with them, loving them the whole way.

I don’t think He would engage in online debates about whether or not their very existence is moral.

You are free to follow Christ and bow out of online debates, if it bothers you… Not everyone sees discussing issues of the faith the same way.

 

[Darken_Rahl]

While traditionalists are turning gay marriage into a moral, religious, and political debate, and treating the stories of LGBT individuals as objects to be scorned, MILLIONS of LGBT individuals are deep in pain.

I think Jesus would probably sit next to them, listen to their stories, ask good questions, and agree to walk through life with them, loving them the whole way.

I don’t think He would engage in online debates about whether or not their very existence is moral.

You are free to follow Christ and bow out of online debates, if it bothers you… Not everyone sees discussing issues of the faith the same way.

 

[bsroufek]

In 2 John 1:9, St. John says, “Anyone who is so ‘progressive’ as not to remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God; whoever remains in the teaching has the Father and the Son.”

 

[Jeanne_S]

I have. I’m not surprised you assumed I haven’t. Typical.

The serious Catholics I have spoken to live chaste lives, recognizing that their homosexual desires are disordered desires. They are very similar to other Catholics who struggle with grave, sinful desires.

“Progressive” Catholics affirm people in their sin, by saying “don’t worry about it,” God accepts you regardless of how much you sin. You don’t even need to bother confessing your homosexual acts, masturbation, artificial birth control, etc, etc. Such action leads to spiritual death. It is the cruelest thing you can do to someone.

This!