Growth in Diocese toward conservatism

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Kindnessmatters

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I live in a suburb of a very politically liberal city. I sought out a parish which is true to church teaching, not taking liberties with the mass or trying to be “entertaining” and found one I love.

I am noticing a few things which i personally find encouraging. One is that our priests, and others in the area, are reintroducing some Latin, and are taking a more instructive approach to homilies, really focusing on developing our understanding of the faith. My priest gives us little homework assignments…to look up and learn about your patron saint, to read a particular letter, etc.

Second, I waited in line over an hour for confession last evening. Father had to instruct me to say my act of contrition in the chapel just to get things moving…I was brief but others took a lot of time. I was pleased there was a line to confess…all ages.

Third, I am seeing reverence returning to the nave during mass. A few years ago I was seeing booty shorts, kids bringing toys, snacks and electronic games, gum chewing…you name it. We had a clueless mom letting ,(encouraging) her kids to be obnoxious in adoration chapel last night, but that is rare. Now I see a renewed mindfulness about reverence that I had thought gone forever.

I have even noticed a return of women wearing mantillas to mass…not Latin Mass, either. I probably saw about 8 last week. I am not prepared to wear one myself but do like to see it.

I am posting about this to ask if others are seeing a growth in attendance and reverence in their parishes?
 
I disagree and to answer your question, in more liberal churches in the area I have observed… . . .

A flamboyant gay priest wearing a gay pride rainbow stole at the he altar to preside over Easter mass in honor of a local LGBT event;

Homilies playing with words to excuse abortion.

In each parish, reverence was generally very lacking.

What I mean by conservatism in the church is conservation of old custom and tradition and respect for the values of the church…conservation of Catholicism.

Political liberalism is riddled with issues for Catholics from positions on abortion, gay marriage, birth control, premarital and non-marital sexual relations, etc…
 
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OurLadyofSorrows said:
Attendance and reverence do not automatically mean ‘conservatism’
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Excellent point…Conservatism and Liberalism are political adjectives, not Church theology, and many seem to confuse the two. Even “modern” and “traditional” are bad descriptors when what is really meant is orthodoxy.
 
Point taken though orthodoxy surely is NOT supported by the American political left.
 
Not so much conservatism but orthodoxy. I think that people are being better catechized and are rejecting the ‘spirit’ of Vatican II. While there is still a liberal element, the Traditional Latin Mass is growing and flourishing and with Liturgy being the highest form of catechesis it only follows that the laity will be better formed in their Faith.
 
Kindnessmatters said:
Point taken though orthodoxy surely is NOT supported by the American political left.
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Fair enough, but be very careful of characterization of members of the political left, especially if you view yourself as a political conservative…it might be seen as feeling spiritually superior, and lacking humility. This of the story of the tax collector and the Pharisee; where the Pharisee praised God for his being righteous, and the tax collector knew he was sinful and could not even look to the heavens.
 
FWIW, here is what the late Cardinal George had to say about that.

“The liberal/conservative thing, I think, is destructive of the Church’s mission and her life. I’ve said that publicly a lot at times. You’re taking a definition that comes out of nowhere, as far as we’re concerned, it’s a modern distinction, and making it the judgment of the Church’s life. It’s because we’re lazy. You put a label on people, you put a label on something, and it saves you the trouble of thinking.”
 
Nah the battle lines are pretty clear. The liberal political ideology pretty much lays waste to the life teachings of Jesus as depicted in the five Catholic non negotiables. And with our bishops telling us that ending abortion is the preeminent issue for Catholics then as the political landscape stands it’s clear we should be voting for the Republican political party.
 
Kindnessmatters said:
Obviously gay young religious priests flirting with each other like silly high school girls after a special mass at a social finction:;
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This is a grave charge to make. It is one that you should not be bringing up here, but with your Bishop.
Kindnessmatters said:
A flamboyant gay priest wearing a gay pride rainbow stole at the he altar to preside over Easter mass in honor of a local LGBT event;
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This is also a grave charge to make, being flamboyantly gay, rather then the wearing of a scarf. Again, bring it up with your Bishop.

I am all for taking back the rainbow. It is a sign of God’s Covenant with us, and is also talked about in the Book of Revelation.
Kindnessmatters said:
Homilies playing with words to excuse abortion.
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Another grave charge, again, you know what I am going to say, bring it up with your Bishop.
Kindnessmatters said:
What I mean by conservatism in the church is conservation of old custom and tradition and respect for the values of the church…conservation of Catholicism.
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There is only one Tradition, Sacred Tradition. If you are talking of items like mantillas, women now have the choice whether to or not wear them. The same with Communion in hand.
Kindnessmatters said:
Political liberalism is riddled with issues for Catholics from positions on abortion, gay marriage, birth control, premarital and non-marital sexual relations, etc…
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I separate my politics from my Church. I am Catholic, I follow what the church teaches. I ignore what politics is pushing, be it conservative or liberal or something in between or to the far whatever side.

I would ask you, you are comparing Parishes and say you finally found one
Kindnessmatters said:
I sought out a parish which is true to church teaching, not taking liberties with the mass or trying to be “entertaining” and found one I love.
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and then go on to say
Kindnessmatters said:
A few years ago I was seeing booty shorts, kids bringing toys, snacks and electronic games, gum chewing…you name it.
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Was this at the same parish you found?

And to this
Kindnessmatters said:
We had a clueless mom letting ,(encouraging) her kids to be obnoxious in adoration chapel last night, but that is rare.
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I thank God a mother is bringing her children to adore God and teaching them what the Eucharist is all about.
 
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Cardinal George headed the Archdiocese of Chicago, where all of the abuses I named above and many I have not mentioned occurred. He was under great pressure to soft-shoe around unorthodox ideas of his parishioners and benefactors. As is often said here in the Chicago area, one best register Democrat if they want the trash picked up.

I was recently mocked by a politically liberal, Christian bashing supervisor at work for wearing a cross which my parents had blessed in Rome, and after being caught “being Catholic at work” was fired. The idea that political liberals support Catholic orthodoxy simply isn’t at all true in my opinion.

I am aware I am a sinner. Humility does not require silence about institutionalized wrongs, however.
 
yankeesouth said:
I think that people are being better catechized and are rejecting the ‘spirit’ of Vatican II
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I used to think this way a bit, then started listening to Bishop Barron and his take on things and to his catechism. He quite rightly says, it was the people who took it and ran with it, and at times, in the wrong direction to the one intended.

Cardinal George was a great mind.
Kindnessmatters said:
I was recently mocked by a politically liberal, Christian bashing supervisor at work for wearing a cross which my parents had blessed in Rome, and after being caught “being Catholic at work” was fired. The idea that political liberals support Catholic orthodoxy simply isn’t at all true in my opinion.
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I get mocked constantly for believing in God, not just for being Catholic.

Remember that Beatitude?

If you were truly fired for being Catholic, take it to the appropriate legal areas, it is against the law.
 
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Of course these things are done subtly and small employers actually are not held to the law. It was a bullying environment, aimed at me because, thought I never demonstrated or discussed politics or religion at work but for wearing a cross, I was bullied out the door. It is the norm in Chicago.

I liked Cardinal George as well as a scholar and priest but the Archdiocese parishes took a lot of liberties under him. It’s not like someone similar to Bishop Jenky could survive in Chicago.
 
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Kindnessmatters said:
Of course these things are done subtly and small employers actually are held to the law. It was a bullying environment, aimed at me because, thought I never demonstrated or discussed politics or religion at work but for wearing a cross, I was bullied out the door. It is the norm in Chicago.
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I am sorry for this, take it to the appropriate place and stop it happening to anyone else.
 
OurLadyofSorrows said:
I used to think this way a bit, then started listening to Bishop Barron and his take on things and to his catechism. He quite rightly says, it was the people who took it and ran with it, and at times, in the wrong direction to the one intended.
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It was liberal clergy that ran with it. I know because I attended retreats where the main goal was to get to know yourself rather than Christ. For me it is Cardinal Burke, Archbishop Schnieder, Taylor Marshall and others takes on things. Also, thankfully, Pope Benedict XVI recognized the danger and gave us Summorum Pontificum.
 
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yankeesouth said:
It was liberal clergy that ran with it. I know because I attended retreats where the main goal was to get to know yourself rather than Christ. For me it is Cardinal Burke, Archbishop Schnieder, Taylor Marshall and others takes on things. Also, thankfully, Pope Benedict XVI recognized the danger and gave us Summorum Pontificum.
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It is taking a 360 degree turn. Bishops like Bishop Barron are teaching and heading us in the direction it should be going. There is so much to unpack still from that Vatican Council. It needs dusting off and unpacking and being read and acted on with eyes that have learnt the errors of the last 50 years in unpacking some things with blinkers on, and incorrectly.
 
Where you suggested I bring my concerns to the bishop, of course, hundreds of others were also present. Whether to escalate a complaint is a personal choice.

As for the mom not handling her kids, as I said, it is a rare thing in this parish. I think it is ok to be glad a Mom brought the kids to church and also be disappointed that she let them, uncorrected, run and be very Loud and disruptive, at length, in the adoration chapel. The confessional doors open to the chapel, confessions were going on at the time, and I amd quite a few others were praying penance in silence when this lady and her charges disrupted us all. I had to leave and pray in the car. The kids were old enough to be given direction. I am glad for everyone who comes to church but hope they let others pray.
 
Kindnessmatters said:
As for the mom not handling her kids, as I said, it is a rare thing in this parish. I think it is ok to be glad a Mom brought the kids to church and also be disappointed that she let them, uncorrected, run and be very Loud and disruptive, at length, in the adoration chapel. The confessional doors open to the chapel, confessions were going on at the time, and I amd quite a few others were praying penance in silence when this lady and her charges disrupted us all. I had to leave and pray in the car. The kids were old enough to be given direction. I am glad for everyone who comes to church but hope they let others pray.
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I would say to let this go and be compassionate.

Think of some of the possibilities. If any of her children are on the autism spectrum, it’s really hard to “discipline” them. My autistic nephews are only now, in their teens, beginning to get the idea of how to behave in a quiet setting.

It’s possible that the mother just learned about a crisis or tragedy in her family, and coming to the Lord Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament was her first reaction. Of course she has to take the kids along, but perhaps they haven’t been told until she has gained some strength and help from the Lord Jesus. Or perhaps they were told, and in their childish immaturity, they are acting out instead of sitting in a pew quietly.

It’s also possible that the mother is a single mom and has pretty much given up trying to discipline her children without the help of a daddy or another male relative. And it’s very likely that she is trying to raise them in the Catholic faith, but faced constant opposition from other relatives or friends who are not believers.

And it’s obvious that she has no “babysitting” help from a spouse or boyfriend, other family members, or friends, or she would have left them with those people during her prayer time. She’s doing the best she can. At least she brought them to the Adoration Chapel instead of just leaving them home or out in the car.

ANYONE can pray in silence and beauty and in the Presence of our beautiful Lord Jesus Christ in the Blessed Sacrament, Truly Present, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity!

But, IMO, the true saints are the ones who can pray to Jesus in the midst of chaos, danger, ridicule, etc. and when His Presence is not apparent.

E.g., Saint Maximillian Kolbe.

I am trying to cultivate this ability to “pray without ceasing,” although I am a long way from mastering it. Perhaps you and others would like to join me in trying to learn how to do this kind of praying.
 
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