Guam Archbishop Anthony Apuron found guilty

[Roseeurekacross]

This is happening in my Diocese. The issue of Historic child sexual abuse affect us deeply. Risdale was a Priest here. The Christian brothers ran a school here. Where every child in certain classes suffered abuse at their hands. Every child.
Cardinal Pell was a Priest here. Cardinal Pell went to school here, grew up here.

There are survivors and families of those who did not survive here. They are not hidden. They tie ribbons on our loud fence and give interviews and support. And are supported.
. Priests like Risdale and various brothers are in jail for their crimes here.

Its real. It happened. Initially the victims of these crimes were not believed. By the church and the police and family and school. They were told they were less then honest.

We pray Cardinal Pell, a boy, later a Priest,later a Bishop here is innocent of these charges. We pray for justice. We pray for healing

But most of all we pray

Any child or adult who steps forward with an allegation will never again be told they are not being honest.

 

[JulianN]

I’m surprised at the light sentence.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Does this case make sense to you?

Yes. It also makes sense to me that the Vatican would want to remove someone who not only seems to have been embroiled in a whole bunch of sexual abuse, but misused a 2 million dollar donation and created a “toxic environment” for Carmelite nuns. Guy sounds like a real piece of work all around.

What doesn’t make sense to me is why people with no knowledge of the evidence and in the face of a Vatican decision are still so willing to stand up for this bishop, apparently just on the basis that he’s some bishop (unless the OP knows him personally). Do you not trust the Vatican to do the correct and intelligent thing? You can’t very well accuse the Vatican of having anti-Catholic bias.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Opinion is distinct from judgment.

And, when not based on any sort of evidence because you’re not privy to any, opinion is not worth very much.

 

[curious_cath]

misused a 2 million dollar donation and created a “toxic environment” for Carmelite nuns.

???
I happen to follow the case for several reasons, but I don’t know where is ‘toxic environment’ coming from. What are you talking about?

on the basis that he’s some bishop (unless the OP knows him personally)

Archbishop Anthony Apuron is the Archbishop of the Archdiocese of Agana on a U.S. territory called Guam. He is a prominent member of the Neocatechumenal Way (NCW) who stood up for the NCW mass in the world media over a decade ago. He got publicity for that. So I took it natural to follow his case.

Do you not trust the Vatican to do the correct and intelligent thing?

I trust the Vatican but I also would like to know how they can reach such decision. This decision has certain canonical consequences, based on verbal recollections of a few from a past of over 30-40 years!

 

[Tis_Bearself]

???

I happen to follow the case for several reasons, but I don’t know where is ‘toxic environment’ coming from. What are you talking about?

It’s a quote from the article you yourself posted, which I presumed you had read.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

He is a prominent member of the Neocatechumenal Way (NCW) who stood up for the NCW mass in the world media over a decade ago. He got publicity for that. So I took it natural to follow his case.

And it seems like he has committed financial abuses in support of the Neocatechumenical Way, based on the article you posted.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

based on verbal recollections of a few from a past of over 30-40 years!

It’s a really difficult thing to come to terms with, that people can say this happened 30 years ago when they were 7, now they are 47.

But God does teach us justice is timeless. And crime has its consequences.

 

[curious_cath]

I presumed you had read.

I have read, but there is no explanation as to the meaning of the ‘toxic environment’ expression here,

he has committed financial abuses in support of the Neocatechumenical Way

I am sorry but where are the financial abuses?? Is it your invention? The article states:

“the money had been intended for an archdiocesan seminary to train diocesan priests, not a Neocatechumenal Way seminary to train missionaries.”

How are the 2 things different from each other? The Redemptoris Mater Seminaries (RMS) train diocesan priests as well as missionary priests anywhere around the world. There are about 1500 RMS institutions world wide, all supported by Vatican’s New Evangelization efforts.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

The Vatican decided they were different from each other. A donation is supposed to be used for what it was intended to be used for. Not for something else the Archbiship decides is “just as good” or for his own pet charity.

I’m stepping off the thread now because you seem very determined to defend this man even though the Vatican has decided he needs to be removed from his situation. I think it a better course of action to defer to the Vatican and its processes on these matters. Have a nice day.

 

[curious_cath]

The Vatican decided they were different from each other.

This is not true. The article does not say this. Sorry!

 

[Annie]

The Neocatecumical Way has been very controversial. If I donated money for a diocesan seminary, I would not be happy if it were then used for Neo. Way missionaries, because I intended the money I donated to form new priests for the diocese, not different kinds of priests (presumably) for other places.

 

[Annie]

Very old crimes are prosecuted from time to time. An example of a way this could have been determined would have been the similarities between the stories of the victims: if they had described similar processes with different words, that would be a type of evidence against the Archbishop.

Other supporting facts could include a sudden drop in grades or other indications of trauma.

I know that in the US we had a lot of problems with allegations elicited by overzealous investigators and false “recovered memories,” but that does not mean there is no way to consider old allegations at all.

 

[curious_cath]

The Neocatecumical Way has been very controversial

I don’t think it is fair to put the NCW on trial. RMS institutions produce parish priests who can go on mission if the circumstances require. New Evangelization needs them! The affiliation to Vatican mother institutions is given. These priests are not “different kinds of priests”. Why do you say that?

 

[curious_cath]

Other supporting facts could include a sudden drop in grades or other indications of trauma.

All you say makes a lot of sense in cases of a traceable past. But these are ancient cases from a long time ago. Who can reliably recall or confirm these kinds of things after 30-40 years have passed?

 

[Annie]

First, I mentioned grades specifically because back at that time, parents often kept the physical report cards of the grades and they can often be found in attics or garages.

However, there are also supporting statements by other relatives or friends.

Sure, it’s not perfect, but then, little is. DNA has recently exonerated a number of people convicted of crimes.

In this case, I speculate that the apparently light sentence may have been due to the tribunal’s determination that there was a lot of evidence but not quite enough for a harsh sentence.

 

[Annie]

I’m only stating a fact. Had the situation been reversed, and someone had given $2M to form Neocatumenical Way missionaries and the money used for the diocesan seminary, wouldn’t there be a problem with that as well?

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Someone attacked and abused by another can recall these things, vividly. For those of us over the age of 30 or 40, it’s not like it was back in the days of dinosaurs.

Survivors of these heinous crimes have been confronted by attitudes like yours for decades. This is how paedophiles are able to continue attacking children for decades.

We are the Catholic Church. We know and acknowledge that we had a heinous problem with this crime for decades.

We know it was very wrong. We know lives were damaged because of it. We know victims suicided, became chemical addicted etc.

We know those who did this historically must be punished. We know survivors require justice.

We know we cannot say, oh you must be unreliable or less then honest.

We know we must listen

 

[curious_cath]

we had a heinous problem with this crime for decades.

You seem to be pre-occupied with Cardinal Pell. Perhaps, you should open a new topic for his case as you see it. In this particular case of the Agana Archbishop there were no criminal charges made. That is in the news. We don’t even know what charges exactly was he found to be guilty. Do you know it?

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Your article states of the archbishop, when discussing sexual abuse:

“A statement from the tribunal in the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which handles sex abuse cases, said Apuron had been convicted of some of the accusations against him.”

That would mean at some stage he had been tried and convicted.

My posts on the Commital Hearing of the Cardinal are in response to your continuing questioning of historic charges

The case raises very serious questions. We are talking about charges from the very distant past, 30-40 years ago! The accusers are former altar boys, now in their fifties and sixties.

Does this case make sense to you?