Guantanamo tip tied to arrests of 22 in Germany

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Guantanamo tip tied to arrests of 22 in Germany
By Charlie Savage, Globe Staff | January 24, 2005

WASHINGTON – Information obtained through the interrogation of a Guantanamo Bay detainee led to a spectacular series of counterterrorism raids in Germany this month, in which more than 700 police swept through mosques, homes, and businesses in six cities and arrested 22 suspected militant extremists, according to a senior Defense Department official.

Read the full story at:
boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/01/24/guantanamo_tip_tied_to_arrests_of_22_in_germany/

This is the only place I have seen this. Wonder why it was not more widely reported?
 
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jlw:
Because all those guys down there are saints…
Yes just simple nomads who happened to be on the battlefields of Afghanistan carrying their Kalishikovs for personal protection only…

Lisa N
 
Lisa N:
Yes just simple nomads who happened to be on the battlefields of Afghanistan carrying their Kalishikovs for personal protection only…

Lisa N
“Hey guys, I hear there is a war going on outside! Let’s go out and watch?? Who has a picnic basket??”
 
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Lance:
This is the only place I have seen this. Wonder why
it was not more widely reported?
Maybe because that would take away from the idea that they have been there so long now that they can’t possibly have any useful information.
 
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ByzCath:
Maybe because that would take away from the idea that they have been there so long now that they can’t possibly have any useful information.
I was wondering the same thing. They haven’t had any contact in several years. Perhaps it is names they gathered way back at the beginning and it is just proving to be useful/ Sleeper cells may be watched now due to info that they got back then. Either way, it would be widely accepted in the news due to the MSM.
 
Lisa N:
Yes just simple nomads who happened to be on the battlefields of Afghanistan carrying their Kalishikovs for personal protection only…

Lisa N
One of the detainees returned to the UK this week was captured in Zambia (thats in Africa folks) another was in Pakistan. It has not been reported that any of them were in possession of Kalashnikov’s (the right to bear arms being confined to US citizens only obviously) so I would be interested in knowing your source for this allegation Lisa.

The people arrested in Germany have not been convicted of anything. Information that the interrogation techniques used in Guantanamo produces is not always to be relied upon

guardian.co.uk/guantanamo/story/0,13743,1318654,00.html

My own Guantánamo interview with Miller took place just eight days after he spoke to the Red Cross. With me, he made no secret of his belief that subjecting the unco-operative to harsher conditions had boosted the yield of intelligence.

Shafiq Rasul, one of the Tipton Three from Staffordshire, who was freed in March, described to me the effect of Miller’s system, which after three months’ in solitary led him to make a false confession of attending a 9/11 planning meeting with Osama bin Laden and the fanatical Mohamed Atta in Afghanistan in January 2000. He was told the meeting had been videotaped.

'The walls [of the interrogation room] were rusty, and they seemed to be soundproofed. There was no ventilation; it was roasting in there. One interrogator told me that anyone who was in Afghanistan was guilty of the murders of 9/11 - even the women and children killed by the American bombing.

‘But they said my position was much worse, because the meeting in this video was to plan 9/11, and loads of people had told them that this guy in a beard standing behind bin Laden was me. I told them that in 2000 I didn’t leave the country, that I was working at the Wednesbury branch of Currys, who would have my employment records. They told me I could have falsified those records - that I could have had someone working with me at Currys who could have altered the data the company held, and travelled on a false passport.’

Finally, as his isolation continued and the interrogators deployed their full range of techniques, Rasul said, he cracked. In a final session, a senior official had come down from Washington: 'My heart is beating, beating, I’m saying it’s not me, it’s not me, but I’m thinking: “I’m going to be screwed, I’m on an island in the middle of nowhere, there’s nothing I can do.”

‘This woman had come down and she plays me the video. I say: “Are you blind? That doesn’t look anything like me.” But it makes no difference. I’d got to the point where I just couldn’t take any more. “Do what you have to do,” I told them. I’d been sitting there for three months in isolation, so I say, “Yes, it’s me. Go ahead and put me on trial.”’

Intelligence officials fear there may be many more examples -
 
jlw said:
“Hey guys, I hear there is a war going on outside! Let’s go out and watch?? Who has a picnic basket??”

upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20040204-051623-5923r
Code:
 			Published 2/4/2004 5:42 PM
 		 WASHINGTON, Feb. 4 (UPI) -- At least 160 of the 650 detainees acknowledged by the Pentagon being held at the United States military base at Guantanamo, Cuba -- almost a quarter of the total -- are from Saudi Arabia, a special UPI survey can reveal.
In UPI’s groundbreaking and detailed breakdown of the nationalities of the detainees, **some arrested far from the 2001 battlefield of Afghanistan,

**Camp Delta also holds seven Arab men handed over to U.S. authorities in Bosnia, as well as five individuals arrested in Malawi last summer.
Code:
Emphasizing the global metastasizing of terrorism, among the 85 Yemenis is an individual arrested in Sarajevo.
Algeria, currently in the throes of a violent conflict between Islamists and the government, has 19 prisoners in Camp Delta, six of whom were arrested in Sarajevo.

cageprisoners.com/articles.php?aid=1626

The vast majority of the detainees held in the US naval base in Guantanamo Bay were arrested in Afghanistan or Pakistan, between November 2001 and January 2002, after the US invasion of Afghanistan in the wake of the September 11th attacks. In addition to the fact that many of these were arrested far from the scene of any fighting, a significant number were also the victims of extra-judicial kidnappings and extraditions from countries distant from the Afghan-Pak region, such as Gambia, Bosnia, Malawi and Zambia. In nearly all cases, those abducted were transported first to US Bases in Afghanistan before being detained in the long term in Cuba.

The range of countries from which the detainees originate is estimated to be between 38 countries (according to the UPI report), others suggest 42, and some indicate 44.

The Pentagon officially says that there were approximately 660 detainees and that 120 of those have been released, leaving the number of inmates at Guantanamo at 559. However, it should be noted that there are indications that the actual number of detainees is far higher than the US allege, 660, but closer to 700 or 800. Dr. Najeeb al-Nu’aymi, the former Qatari Minister of Justice who is presently acting as the legal representative on behalf of more than a hundred detainees, elaborates that this is due to the numbers captured after the initial sweep in Afghanistan, and those who have been transferred from various countries. The establishment of a new detention facility in the base, Camp 5, a fortnight ago, built to house 100 inmates, bringing the total capacity of the US base to 1,100 detainees, would further support this. With regular caches of prisoners every few months, it is also believed that Guantanamo will become a future destination for many prisoners held in detention in Iraq.

The report currently is limited to presenting the names of the male detainees. However, it is now believed that there are also female inmates in Guantanamo, at least one of these - whose nationality and age are unknown - has been reported in the press, as an alleged “al-Qaeda member” arrested in Afghanistan and transported to Cuba.
 
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Matt25:
One of the detainees returned to the UK this week was captured in Zambia (thats in Africa folks) another was in Pakistan. It has not been reported that any of them were in possession of Kalashnikov’s (the right to bear arms being confined to US citizens only obviously) so I would be interested in knowing your source for this allegation Lisa.

The people arrested in Germany have not been convicted of anything. Information that the interrogation techniques used in Guantanamo produces is not always to be relied upon

guardian.co.uk/guantanamo/story/0,13743,1318654,00.html

My own Guantánamo interview with Miller took place just eight days after he spoke to the Red Cross. With me, he made no secret of his belief that subjecting the unco-operative to harsher conditions had boosted the yield of intelligence.

Shafiq Rasul, one of the Tipton Three from Staffordshire, who was freed in March, described to me the effect of Miller’s system, which after three months’ in solitary led him to make a false confession of attending a 9/11 planning meeting with Osama bin Laden and the fanatical Mohamed Atta in Afghanistan in January 2000. He was told the meeting had been videotaped.

'The walls [of the interrogation room] were rusty, and they seemed to be soundproofed. There was no ventilation; it was roasting in there. One interrogator told me that anyone who was in Afghanistan was guilty of the murders of 9/11 - even the women and children killed by the American bombing.

‘But they said my position was much worse, because the meeting in this video was to plan 9/11, and loads of people had told them that this guy in a beard standing behind bin Laden was me. I told them that in 2000 I didn’t leave the country, that I was working at the Wednesbury branch of Currys, who would have my employment records. They told me I could have falsified those records - that I could have had someone working with me at Currys who could have altered the data the company held, and travelled on a false passport.’

Finally, as his isolation continued and the interrogators deployed their full range of techniques, Rasul said, he cracked. In a final session, a senior official had come down from Washington: 'My heart is beating, beating, I’m saying it’s not me, it’s not me, but I’m thinking: “I’m going to be screwed, I’m on an island in the middle of nowhere, there’s nothing I can do.”

‘This woman had come down and she plays me the video. I say: “Are you blind? That doesn’t look anything like me.” But it makes no difference. I’d got to the point where I just couldn’t take any more. “Do what you have to do,” I told them. I’d been sitting there for three months in isolation, so I say, “Yes, it’s me. Go ahead and put me on trial.”’

Intelligence officials fear there may be many more examples -
I just love how you like to quote the Guardian and the detainees and ASSUME that they are all on the up-and-up, but of course the big, bad, US Government is wrong. I’m sure none of these guys would ever, EVER fabricate anything to make the US look bad. I’m sure that all those Brits were out in Pakistan and Zambia building drainage ditches for the local villagers. I’m sure The Guardian gives only the most balanced views and wouldn’t EVER criticize the US without a sound basis (was it them or one of your other favorite papers that ran the headline “How could 59,000,000 Americans Be So Stupid?” after the November election?). My brother-in-law actually served in the Guantanamo Bay prison back in 2002. He doesn’t remember any of the (^(& going on that you’re dishing out. "Oh dear, I was interrogated in a room… and…and… IT HAD RUSTY WALLS!!!:crying: :bigyikes: ". By the way, I believe one of the detainees released from Guantanamo ended up a big grease-spot in Iraq after he blew himself up in a suicide bombing. I’m sure he was completely innocent too.
 
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INRI:
but of course the big, bad, US Government is wrong.
If you think their guilty you must have the evidence and, if you have the evidence then you can charge them in a court of law and gain a conviction.

If you don’t, then what other conclusion can anyone come too other than you don’t have the evidence and therefore cannot charge them, and, if you don’t have the evidence then holding them is illegal.

Can’t see whats so difficult to understand!!

If you think their guilty, charge them and prove it!!!

Always thought that was part of your constitution, or is that only for a selected minority?
 
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Norwich:
If you think their guilty you must have the evidence and, if you have the evidence then you can charge them in a court of law and gain a conviction.

If you don’t, then what other conclusion can anyone come too other than you don’t have the evidence and therefore cannot charge them, and, if you don’t have the evidence then holding them is illegal.

Can’t see whats so difficult to understand!!

If you think their guilty, charge them and prove it!!!

Always thought that was part of your constitution, or is that only for a selected minority?
See the OP for an answer. Is it just me or do you and Matt25 (especially Matt25) spend all your time baiting Americans? FYI, the Bill of Rights (not that I’m arguing for suspending liberties or anything) doesn’t apply to non-US citizens.
 
Norwich said:
----
Always thought that was part of your constitution, or is that only for a selected minority?

Yes, the minority is American citizens.
 
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INRI:
(was it them or one of your other favorite papers that ran the headline “How could 59,000,000 Americans Be So Stupid?” after the November election?)
.
That was the Daily Mirror not one of my favourite papers by any manner of means
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INRI:
By the way, I believe one of the detainees released from Guantanamo ended up a big grease-spot in Iraq after he blew himself up in a suicide bombing. I’m sure he was completely innocent too.
Which detainee was that? When was the bombing? If there is no due process of law is it any great surprise if the innocent are imprisoned while the guilty go free? History shows that you cannot do evil so that good may triumph.
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INRI:
FYI, the Bill of Rights (not that I’m arguing for suspending liberties or anything) doesn’t apply to non-US citizens.
What about the Universal Declaration of Human Rights? un.org/Overview/rights.html Ratified by the USA in 1976

Article 9.

No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.

Article 10.

Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.

Article 11.

(1) Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.

usinfo.state.gov/dhr/Archive/2004/Dec/07-736194.html

The declaration is a groundbreaking document on many levels. It was the first document to articulate in detail the idea of universal human rights and fundamental freedoms, and also the first document to espouse universal principles adopted by an international organization. The declaration sets forth the principles of justice, equality, and dignity as indivisible human rights of every man, woman and child. According to the declaration, “all human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights” and the “inherent dignity of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world.”

Over 50 years later, the legacy of the declaration is pervasive. As Eleanor Roosevelt hoped in 1948, the declaration has indeed “become the international Magna Carta of all men everywhere.” Although it is not a legally binding document, the declaration has acquired the status of customary law – a law that, although unwritten, reflects state practices and has the support of the international community as a practice that is required by law.

The United States, as a supporter of human rights worldwide, honors the significance of human rights protection and the efforts of human rights defenders on Human Rights Day and throughout the year. Through its support of human rights programs in over 100 countries, the United States is working with human rights defenders to make the principles outlined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights a reality in the life of all nations and peoples.
 
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Matt25:
.
Which detainee was that? When was the bombing? If there is no due process of law is it any great surprise if the innocent are imprisoned while the guilty go free? History shows that you cannot do evil so that good may triumph.
.
After looking into it, this is what I was able to find this off of the Jihadwatch website:
WASHINGTON (AP) – At least seven former prisoners of the United States at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, have been involved in terrorist acts, despite gaining their freedom by signing pledges to renounce violence, according to the Pentagon.

At least two are believed to have died in fighting in Afghanistan, and a third was recaptured during a raid of a suspected training camp in Afghanistan, Lt. Cmdr. Flex Plexico, a Pentagon spokesman, said last week. Others are at large.

The seven were among 203 detainees released from the prison at the U.S. naval base on Cuba’s southeastern tip since it opened in early 2002.

Of those, 146 were let go only after U.S. officials determined they no longer posed threats and had no remaining intelligence value.

Posted at October 19, 2004 04:53 AM

Or This little tidbit from Instapundit.com perhaps related to story above:
KANDAHAR, Afghanistan - Afghan security forces killed a senior Taliban commander and two of his comrades in a raid in southern Afghanistan, an official said Sunday.

Maulvi Abdul Ghaffar, reportedly a former inmate at the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, died in a gunbattle Saturday night in Pishi, a village in the southern province of Uruzgan, said Jan Mohammed Khan, governor of Uruzgan.

Then, there is this from the PowerLine blog (Author is a lawyer):
The Associated Press reports, with a straight face, charges by a British Muslim, captured in Afghanistan, that he was abused at Guantanamo Bay:

A Briton released from the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay told Europe’s top human rights body Friday he was beaten, shackled, kept in a cramped cage and fed rotten food as part of “systematic abuse” in American custody. Jamal al-Harith’s testimony before a Council of Europe panel came as part of an inquiry by the body into human rights abuses at the U.S. detention facility to be made public in a report due out early next year.

At one point, al-Harith said he refused to take an unidentified injection and was chained up and attacked by five men wearing helmets, body armor and shields.

“They jumped on my legs and back and they kicked and punched me,” said the 37-year-old Web site designer and father of three from Manchester, England. “Then I was put in isolation for a month.”

Al-Harith said he was kept mostly in a wire cage and given food marked “10 to 12 years beyond their usable date” as well as “black and rotten” fruit. Sometimes, unmuzzled dogs were brought to the cage and encouraged to bark, he said.

If you read far enough, you find this:

the Pentagon denied the abuse allegations and said the men were properly held in Guantanamo after being captured in Afghanistan and having fought for al-Qaida.Here, though, is the key information:

He and three other Britons were released in March and have filed a lawsuit in a U.S. court seeking $10 million each in damages.It is not unusual for people to lie for money. In my business, I see this quite often. It’s interesting, though: the liberal media had no problem assuming, on the basis of no evidence whatsoever, that 250 Swift Boat Vets were lying about John Kerry even though they had no apparent motive to do so. The word of al Qaeda terrorists captured in combat with American troops, on the other hand, is taken at face value even though the terrorists’ pecuniary motive is obvious.

This is, of course, not surprising to anyone who has been paying attention.

Then there is this headline from your favorite newspaper:
**Cuba? It was great, say boys freed from US prison camp
**Rest of article is here:
guardian.co.uk/guantanamo/story/0,13743,1163435,00.html

Lest we forget what kind of people we are dealing with, from your favorite and balanced news source:
guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1398693,00.html

You bray repeatedly about American shortcomings, but look the other way when stuff like this comes down the pike:
washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17082-2004Nov1.html
 
Like I mentioned before, my brother-in-law served as a M.P. (military police) at Guantanamo Bay back in 2002. He had direct supervision over the guards there. He would have known if anything like the abuse you are talking about was going on there. There was nothing of what is popularly alleged that occurred there. He also served in Iraq in Najaf and Karbala and has the same thing to say that all the other returning servicemen have had to say once they get back to the US. That is he doesn’t recognize the Iraq on the TV as the one he served in. The Iraq he knew was full of hope for the future and there was all kinds of reconstruction going on. When he comes home, the only thing he hears about is roadside bombings. And this is the US media, not even the 5th-column type stuff you’re reading in the UK. Just realize that these detainees you’re talking about don’t exactly make their allegations in the spirit of letting the truth be known, they have ulterior motives…
 
So the justification is, if they do it we can do it!!!

So, if they kill our people we kill their people,
If they harm our children we harm their children,
If they rape our wives we rape their wives.

So at the end of the day whose the good and whose the bad?

Haven’t you realised, stupidity + stupidity = STUPIDITY. It certainly doesn’t equal sense!!!
 
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Norwich:
So the justification is, if they do it we can do it!!!

So, if they kill our people we kill their people,
If they harm our children we harm their children,
If they rape our wives we rape their wives.

So at the end of the day whose the good and whose the bad?

Haven’t you realised, stupidity + stupidity = STUPIDITY. It certainly doesn’t equal sense!!!
Please tell me where, WHERE have I posted anything like that. Stop torching straw men, Norwich!!
 
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INRI:
By the way, I believe one of the detainees released from Guantanamo ended up a big grease-spot in Iraq after he blew himself up in a suicide bombing. I’m sure he was completely innocent too.
So who is this detainee who died in a suicide bombing in Iraq?

If the US wrongly releases guilty people is it not at least theoretically possible that they sometimes detain innocent ones?
 
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Matt25:
So who is this detainee who died in a suicide bombing in Iraq?

If the US wrongly releases guilty people is it not at least theoretically possible that they sometimes detain innocent ones?
Uh Matt25,
Did you even look at my one post that answered that question? :nope: I will admit some confusion: the Gitmo former detainee died in a gunbattle in Afghanistan, not blowing himself up in Iraq. I deleted the story from my post for space reasons that detailed the Canadian who blew himself up, killing another Canadian soldier in Afghanistan. His brother was a detainee. Sorry, I guess when one guys tries to kill others by blowing himself up and another tries to kill others by firing an AK-47, I tend not to quibble that the methods were different when the intention is the same.
 
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INRI:
Just realize that these detainees you’re talking about don’t exactly make their allegations in the spirit of letting the truth be known, they have ulterior motives…
In the case of Guantanamo Bay both the guards and the detainee’s have powerful reasons to testify in opposite directions. You choose to believe agents of the Federal Government, thats up to you, obviously if you have a relative involved thats powerful testimony. He may be reporting his perceptions truthfully but the perceptions themselves may be incorrect.

shalomctr.org/index.cfm/action/read/section/torture/article/article722.html
WASHINGTON, Nov. 29 - The International Committee of the Red Cross has
charged in confidential reports to the United States government that the
American military has intentionally used psychological and sometimes
physical coercion “tantamount to torture” on prisoners at Guantnamo Bay, Cuba.

The finding that the handling of prisoners detained and interrogated at
Guantnamo amounted to torture came after a visit by a Red Cross inspection
team that spent most of last June in Guantnamo.

The team of humanitarian workers, which included experienced medical
personnel, also asserted that some doctors and other medical workers at
Guantnamo were participating in planning for interrogations, in what the
report called “a flagrant violation of medical ethics.”

Doctors and medical personnel conveyed information about prisoners’ mental
health and vulnerabilities to interrogators, the report said, sometimes
directly, but usually through a group called the Behavioral Science
Consultation Team, or B.S.C.T. The team, known informally as Biscuit, is
composed of psychologists and psychological workers who advise the
interrogators, the report said.

It was the first time that the Red Cross, which has been conducting visits
to Guantnamo since January 2002, asserted in such strong terms that the
treatment of detainees, both physical and psychological, amounted to
torture. The report said that another confidential report in January 2003,
which has never been disclosed, raised questions of whether “psychological
torture” was taking place.

The Red Cross said publicly 13 months ago that the system of keeping
detainees indefinitely without allowing them to know their fates was
unacceptable and would lead to mental health problems.

The report of the June visit said investigators had found a system devised
to break the will of the prisoners at Guantnamo, who now number about 550,
and make them wholly dependent on their interrogators through “humiliating
acts, solitary confinement, temperature extremes, use of forced positions.”
Investigators said that the methods used were increasingly “more refined
and repressive” than learned about on previous visits.

“The construction of such a system, whose stated purpose is the production
of intelligence, cannot be considered other than an intentional system of
cruel, unusual and degrading treatment and a form of torture,” the report
said. It said that in addition to the exposure to loud and persistent noise
and music and to prolonged cold, detainees were subjected to “some
beatings.”

The report from the June visit said the Red Cross team found a far greater
incidence of mental illness produced by stress than did American medical
authorities, much of it caused by prolonged solitary confinement. It said
the medical files of detainees were “literally open” to interrogators.
 
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