Guaranteed safety from hell?

[Penitant]

Mark 10:

17As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

18"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. 19You know the commandments: ‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your father and mother.’[a]”

20"Teacher," he declared, “all these I have kept since I was a boy.”

21Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22At this the man’s face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.

 

[Randy_Carson]

If one truly believes in Christ, then he or she will do the things that Christ commanded. “If you love Me, you will obey what I have commanded.”

If someone has faith in Christ and does what Christ commanded (ie, confess sins, receive baptism, receive the Eucharist, etc) he or she will be saved.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

If someone has faith in Christ and does what Christ commanded (ie, confess sins, receive baptism, receive the Eucharist, etc) he or she will be saved.

you can be saved without doing these humanly things, the bible tells me so! These are matters of obedience not salvific essentials

 

[Randy_Carson]

Myfavoritmartin-

Gosh, you can’t imagine how excited I am to learn that I can be saved without slavishly following all of the human traditions of Romanism! :bowdown:

Please, dear brother in Christ, share with me the pure Gospel message…what proof text do you have in mind?

But first, please tell me by what authority you interpret the scripture you want to quote and whether you are infallible, how you know that the Bible itself is inspired, and where the Bible itself teaches the doctrine of sola scriptura?

Otherwise, this former Protestant will continue to rely on the unwavering and infallible teachings of the one holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

 

[VociMike]

you can be saved without doing these humanly things, the bible tells me so! These are matters of obedience not salvific essentials

Actually, it may be possible for others to be saved without “humanly things” (unless “humanly things” includes faith…), but I suggest that it is not possible for you or me. That is, I suggest it is not possible for those who live a good part of their lives as professed Christians.

If you disagree, then ask yourself, can a Christian who does no good works for a year before his death be saved? Five years? Ten years? 20? 50 years? Can a Christian who never does a single good work in a long lifetime of professed belief be saved?

 

[Charybdis]

The thing here is the internal orientation of the person. The OP said that if you give someone food or water, etc. then regardless of why you are doing it, the end result is the same, they get food or water.

Oh, but do not be deceived!!! Remember, our Lord called out the Pharisees by doing the same. He said they give money and call attention to themselves so that they think they are following the law but are soulless as the empty sepulcher. The end result was the same, they gave money to the temple, etc. But you see how their internal orientation was all wrong? It was focused on themselves. The poor beggar woman with two coins was not.

Just the same as in confession, if you only confess sins to avoid hell, then even the church says that your confession is not total, you still get absolved, but your motivation for confessing should not totally be to save yourself from hellfire, but for the sorrow you have for having offended God in the first place.

So, the internal orientation of the person IS very important!!! That is why you must have others in mind when you do your good works and not worry too much about yourself. If you orient youself to doing the works of the Lord while placing him first and placing all your love toward Him and others, then you’ll be just fine…

God Bless

 

[amycorazon]

Dear Non existence:

I am a new almost Catholic (I am in RCIA). I will try to answer your question. If I am wrong on any of this (I have less experience than most in this forum), the others in this discussion should feel free to correct me.

First of all, I disagree with your assumption that your original intentions don’t matter when you do good works for others. It is true that the person you do good works for may not know or care about your intentions. But God knows what is in your heart. God knows what your intentions are. He is all-knowing. You cannot escape Him. Intentions matter. (For more on this, see Dr. Charles Rice on the Natural Law and Catholicism).

Good works are our appropriate response to the grace and mercy that God pours out on us. We don’t deserve it, but God gives us this grace anyway. We are called to respond to Him.
If we reject Him, we go to hell.

I think your argument is based on a fundamentally materialistic worldview. Catholics do not accept this type of reasoning. We are both body and spirit, not just body. I don’t know what philosophy books you may have read, but your point of view sounds nihilistic and atheistic. Not to mention depressing and bad for the soul!

I recommend that you investigate some of Pope Benedict XVI’s writings and Pope John Paul II’s writings. You will find some interesting answers to your questions there.

Take care.

 

[dkoinzan]

There is no guarantee safety from hell. It is only by the grace of God that each one of us aren’t there. None of us deserves to get to heaven. Study the lives of the Saints, they made it already. Jesus told St. Faustina that the only thing that is exclusively hers to give is her misery. She gave it to him as a gift. The more I use the confessional, the more I realize I need the confessional. I give Jesus my misery, my sorrow, my pain, my everything. Each time I go to confession and then recieve Jesus in the Eucarist, I feel my faith grow and the more Jesus can show me. The way to heaven is simple but not easy. The only perfect human was Jesus.

 

[RevDrNorth]

I got the same e-mail as others did from on existence. I was not sure about the sincerity since it seemed almost to be a loaded question from a fundamentalist (ie the only way to guarentee is to accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior and then the whole perseverance of the Saints thing).

At any rate, assuming the question was sincere, as others have pointed out you put your faith in Christ who died for you sins. We have a merciful and just God. You also prayerfully live out your Christian life because that faith in Christ should show itself in service to others, use of your gifts for the greater good and glory of God. Through the process of sanctification your life should be becoming more Christ like as your Christian maturity increases.

Do not be so preoccupied with scrupulosity that you lose sight of the gift you have of God’s grace to live your life in Him. If you spend all of your time worrying about ending up in hell you will not live out your Christian vocation. Such preoccupation in not scriptural (certainly the disciples did not live like that).

RevDrNorth

 

[Victorious]

I want to avoid future suffering at all costs, therefore I practice very strict moral discipline, generosity, compassion & forgiveness, which will then (according to you) guarantee the exact opposite of my intended goal ?

1 Corinthians 13:1-3:

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

By the way, I also got the PM, and I still suspect a fundamentalist put-up job.

 

[dsb1808]

1 Corinthians 13:1-3: By the way, I also got the PM, and I still suspect a fundamentalist put-up job.

I got a PM too and I never even looked at the thread. I think I know why now.

Thanks.

David

 

[Vir_Deus]

I got a PM too and I never even looked at the thread. I think I know why now.

Thanks.

David

I received one also and I havn’t even posted on the board for about a month, usually just read.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I got a PM too and I never even looked at the thread. I think I know why now.

Thanks.

David

Got one too. Tried to answer it. It isn’t easy to do. Maybe the gentleman is a “born again” plant or a cynic, but I thought I should answer. Wouldn’t be very charitable not to. Best I could come up with (other than “private revelation” things like the 9 first Fridays) was something a former theology teacher of mine, a priest, said. Someone asked him that question. His answer was one word; “pray”. In every class in a Catholic college there are a few would be intellecutals who liked to challenge everything they heard. Anyway, one fellow rather cynically asked if one Hail Mary per day was enough. To this, the priest replied “yes”, then waited. Ready to pounce, the young philosophe asked “one Hail Mary, and for what?” The priest replied “You’re not limited to one, you know, but pray for what you need the most in order to love God and your fellow man, and mean it; do it starting today and for the rest of your life, and when your prayer is answered, and you know what you most need, then do it, and pray for the thing you next need most.” The fellow then asked if the one Hail Mary was a guaranteed deal. The priest responded “oh yes, but for you, three might be better.” That ended it. I have pondered that exchange all the years since. I actually believed the priest instantly, as strange as what he said seemed. I decided I was no better than the questioner, so I thought I had better say three, and have done that faithfully (though not exclusively) ever since. I have been equally fascinated by St. Therese of Lisieux’ “Little Way” and the truly shocking theology she propounded. She said, for instance, that if she had committed every sin there was to commit, she would not be afraid of hell in the least. When asked why, she said “because I love God.” She made a prayer of the tiniest action; something that reminds me of Fr. Escriva. “Pray incessantly” we are told, and so St. Therese did, and so the Opus Dei folks try to do, in their every movement and action; however mundane and non-holy they may seem. One day St. Augustine was walking up and down in a recreation field of some kind, and someone asked him what he would do if he were told the end of the world was only an hour away. He replied that in that event, he would continue walking up and down in the recreation field. St. Therese, Fr. Escriva and St. Augustine all believed that the “why” was everything.

Well, I’ve said my piece the best I could, and God bless you all!

, but his messages were full. I got the feeling I was not the chosen mentor then. But

 

[Ridgerunner]

Oops! Left a stray line at the bottom. Yes, I tried to answer the message, but the OP’s messages were full.

 

[Scott_X]

Ridgerunner…I just love anecdotes from the lives of the saints. If someone had never read the scriptures but you knew the words and actions of the saints well…they would effectively know the scriptures by heart already. (I’m not recommeding that we don’t read scripture of course)

I’m curious how our protagonist PM’d so many people at once. I thought you could only PM 5 people at a time. I know others who haven’t posted on this thread who recieved the same PM, and it’s not like we’re alphabetically sequential.
Non_existence performed this mass PM before he/she had even registerd 1 post as a new member.
Could it possibly have been sent to the entire membership?..mods?
For anyone who hasn’t checked out this page, it might fill you in on where non_existence is coming from… freewebtown.com/nonsuffering/

 

[glimmer]

I got the same PM from the same OP and I hadn’t even opened the forum in some time. But what’s really distressing, is that having done so, I read so many opinions about how to avoid hell. Apparently, nobody has any sure idea of whether Jesus is really a Savior or a trickster or whether we get there on our own strength or on His. I think I’m going to leave again. This is too depressing. There is no hope in this world.

 

[Scott_X]

This is too depressing. There is no hope in this world.

I have a hope…I hope you’re not serious.
If non_existence’s intentions were nefarious then your response counts as a success.
True Christianity operates on the virtue of hope.
Protestant Christianity operates on presumption.
Jesus can neither decieve nor be decieved.
His promises are clear, and his program for our co-operation is equally clear.
The main enemies of this plan are pride (exemplified by Satan) and despair (exemplified by Judas).

Other than these two dire pitfalls…Our Lady said to the children of Fatima, after she showed them a vision of hell, that many go there simply because they have no-one to pray for them.
Glimmer…I will pray for you that you might see a glimmer of hope.

 

[dawgfan]

Since hell is eternal extreme suffering, what can I do in order to achieve an absolutely 100% certain guarantee that I’ll never go to hell ?

.

One way to start is to stop sending PMs to everyone.

 

[FightingFat]

One way to start is to stop sending PMs to everyone.

I feel left out now!

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Myfavoritmartin-

Gosh, you can’t imagine how excited I am to learn that I can be saved without slavishly following all of the human traditions of Romanism! :bowdown:

Finally, it’s getting through

Please, dear brother in Christ, share with me the pure Gospel message…what proof text do you have in mind?

Which one do you want that says Christ did it for us, not we did it for us… There are close to 200 verses that tell you true saving faith is sufficient., for if its not Christ died in vain Gal.2:21

But first, please tell me by what authority you interpret the scripture you want to quote and whether you are infallible, how you know that the Bible itself is inspired, and where the Bible itself teaches the doctrine of sola scriptura?

By the Holy spirit I interpret…How does your church interpret Gal 2:21??? The bible is inspired cuz it says it is…
SS is not a doctrine…

Otherwise, this former Protestant will continue to rely on the unwavering and infallible teachings of the one holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

That is quite sad my friend, the truth is in your heart, not an institution…