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pnewton
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Uh, yes, which is why I kneel.
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benedictgal
Guest
Not only does the GIRM treat this subject, but Redemptionis Sacramentum as well:
It doesn’t matter that Haugen wrote the piece. The fact remains that he should not have included musical notes providing for instruments to be played during the EP. Thruoghout various Papal Mass broadcasts, I have heard Pope Benedict chant the EP on some occasions. He certainly doesn’t have musical accompanyment.
A couple of years ago, I went to Mass at San Fernando Cathedral in San Antonio. I was very disappointed that the pianist was playing throughout the Eucharistic Prayer, crescendoing up to the Memorial Acclamation. It turned out to be a Marty Haugen setting because it was the Mass of Creation. Inasmuch as the priest was singing the entire EP, what the pianist did was clearly against the norm.
It doesn’t matter that Haugen wrote the piece. The fact remains that he should not have included musical notes providing for instruments to be played during the EP. Thruoghout various Papal Mass broadcasts, I have heard Pope Benedict chant the EP on some occasions. He certainly doesn’t have musical accompanyment.
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cholman
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Well, music during the consecration is NOT 100% forbidden, as many of you claim, simply because many modern mass settings include music for the consecration prayer, and have background music for the instruments while the species are being lifted up. (Mass of Light, David Haas, GIA Publications or Mass of Glory, Bob Hurd, OCP are two prominent examples). Granted, it is not a common practice because many priests are not up to the music, but it has been done.
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Dicerning
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You just quoted Haas and Hurd.
Perhaps you would be interested in THIS site.
Also GIA and OCP are not exactly considered the “gold” standard for how the liturgy should be done. In fact the liturgical Reformers (who are yestetdays treaditionalists ) use the two publications as source for bad humor.
I suggest you read the spirit of the Liturgy written by a fellow named Joseph Ratzinger. You will get some clues as to whether you personal likes are in line with the Vicar of Christ.
Someone just quoted the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, which, having come from the Congregation for Divine Worship, I would suspect has more authority than some companies not really known for their compliance with liturgical law.
Liturgical law calls for silence of instruments during the Consecration.
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cholman
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I see. So you are saying that the companies that are rather highly respected by many Catholic bishops in the US are completely and utterly incorrect? I come from the ultra-conservative Peoria diocese, and even they don’t disapprove of the music during the consecration.
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Phemie
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Yes, that’s exactly what we’re saying. They publish “Mass of Creation”, don’t they? That’s a Mass setting, composed by a non-Catholic, which take liberties with the text of the Ordinary (contrary to all the documents on Liturgy which say no one has the right to change anything, not even a priest) and goes against the General Instruction of the Roman Missal by having a setting for the Eucharistic Prayer. Those companies are about MONEY, not about Liturgy.
If they really cared about Liturgy and not just about money they wouldn’t have put a stop to the internet publication of free settings for the new translation of the Ordinary of the Mass the way they did just a few months ago. Perish the thought someone should publish settings for free before their hacks get their mediocre offerings available for big bucks.
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Phemie
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Just because those are published and used doesn’t make them right. The GIRM says the instruments should be silent while the presider says or chants the prayers.
Absolutely. That’s precisely what we are saying. And if the ultra-conservative Diocese of Peoria does not disapprove, then they’re probably not ultra-conservative enough.
The GIRM is the binding instruction for the celebration of the Mass, not the whims of composers who don’t even bother to obey the simple directives to keep to the liturgical texts.
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pnewton
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We follow Rome, not Portland. Yes, they are dead wrong, and not just in this. They also publish alternative wordings to the Agnus Dei, which an absolute, unequivocal violation of liturgical norms. The problem springs form allowing non-Catholics to write without holding them to Catholic standards. They may be talented song writers, or cheap, I do not know why they continue on the payrolls, but they work for corporations, not the Church. Furthermore, their continual violation of liturgical rules that are mandated by Rome are one of the leading causes of Catholics being mislead as to what is, and is not, allowed.
I have had to discontinue use of the “Lamb of God” in Mass of Creation because the moron used the wrong words. Three words and he still couldn’t get it right.
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Dicerning
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Got news for you I took some training with a cleric in Peoria.
Peoria AINT no conservative diocese. THey just aren’t toe the line liberal like 3/4 of the rest of the AMerican CHurch.
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benedictgal
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I read your background. You note that you are the assistant director of music at your parish. As such, I believe, with all due respect, that you might want to read the authoritative documents of the Holy See regarding the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, namely Redemptionis Sacramentum, which notes (as I quoted earlier) that:
Inasmuch as there are settings written for the Memorial Acclamation and the Great Amen, the Eucharistic Prayer, as a whole, should not be accompanied by music.
Furthermore, neither GIA nor OCP have any regulatory authority whatsoever. It matters not that Bob Hurd, Marty Haugen or David Haas wrote these settings. The fact remains that neither they nor their publishing houses override what the Holy See has mandated.
In fact, the aforementioned composers, especially Haugen and Haas, are infamous for the excessive liberties that they take with the parts of the Mass. Hurd has done his share of damage in Spanish. You might also want to read Liturgiam Authenticam, the document of the Holy See governing translations of the books used for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. This section is particularly telling:
We must follow the directives given to us by Rome, not by the publishing houses. It is unfortunate that the composers choose to routinely ignore what Rome has said.
I have planned many liturgies over the course of nine years. I have made it a point to follow the norms and directives of the Church, using the authoritative documents of the Holy See as my guide, not the flawed planning guides that the publishing houses routinely distribute. One doesn’t need a degree in musical studies to know a flawed piece when one sees it. And, one doesn’t need to be a theologian to know when a piece of music, a hymn or a setting is totally wrong for use in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
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pnewton
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Let me add “Spirit of the Liturgy” by our current Pope. You suggested it to me a year ago and I think it is a great read for all Church musicians.
See. I do pay attention to you and on occasion even open my eyes a peep. I still play guitar, though.
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benedictgal
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Thank you!Let me add “Spirit of the Liturgy” by our current Pope. You suggested it to me a year ago and I think it is a great read for all Church musicians.
See. I do pay attention to you and on occasion even open my eyes a peep. I still play guitar, though.
And, you’re still my favorite Aggie on CAF! 
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