Guitar playing during the words of consecration?

  • Thread starter Thread starter TLM08
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
T

TLM08

Guest
On Christmas day, during the words of consecration, the guitarist was busy plucking out melodic notes… It was simply another reminder why the Traditional Latin Mass seems to be a far more respectful and reverent manner of worship.

:cool:
 
I have never know in my life of music being played during the consecration. This is the most sacred part of the Mass where the bread and wine is changed into the Body and Blood of Jesus. I have attended Mass in many countries and never came accross this. What I do know happens in my own parish is that during the time that people are receiving communion ( which takes a long time) nice sacred music is played on tape.
Perhaps you should ask your Priest about this.
God Bless.
 
TLM08 said:
On Christmas day, during the words of consecration, the guitarist was busy plucking out melodic notes… It was simply another reminder why the Traditional Latin Mass seems to be a far more respectful and reverent manner of worship.

:cool:
Click to expand...
This is forbidden. The GIRM has this to say about what happens when the priest is speaking:
  1. The nature of the “presidential” texts demands that they be spoken in a loud and clear voice and that everyone listen with attention.44 Thus, while the priest is speaking these texts, there should be no other prayers or singing, and the organ or other musical instruments should be silent.
Click to expand...
 
TLM08 said:
On Christmas day, during the words of consecration, the guitarist was busy plucking out melodic notes… It was simply another reminder why the Traditional Latin Mass seems to be a far more respectful and reverent manner of worship.

:cool:
Click to expand...
This has absolutely nothing to do with the Of versus the EF. This has everything to do with a music minister problem and the people that allow him/her to do such things.
 
Torroidial said:
This has absolutely nothing to do with the Of versus the EF. This has everything to do with a music minister problem and the people that **allow **him/her to do such things.
Click to expand...
Allow, enable, whatever. You are right. This specific instance is unique to this parish. But it has everything to do with the OF’s and the EF.

See the trend ? There is an Extraordianry Form and then there are Ordinary Forms. Yep plural.

The Ordinary Form is not the culprit itself, but it’s introduction has yielded the fruits we see. Every day there is a new post, or more than one, on liturgical abuse. “Is this allowed ?” “Is that allowed ?” And it never ends. Why ?

The Novus Ordo needs to be prayed the same way in every parish. The way it was meant to be prayed the day it was introduced. If this is not possible, then it needs to be abrogated.

Multiple “forms” of a Rite is absurd.

While he wasn’t specifically addressing abuse, Cardinal McIntyre saw it coming…
“In recent times, even in materialist North America, the growth of the Church was magnificent with the liturgy being kept in Latin. The attempts of the Protestants have failed, and Protestantism uses the vernacular. We ask again: Why the change, especially since changes in this matter involve many difficulties and great dangers? All of us here at the Council can recall the fundamental changes in the meaning of words in common use. Thus it follows that if the Sacred Liturgy were in the vernacular, the immutability of doctrine would be endangered.
The introduction of the vernacular should be separated from the action of the Mass. The Mass must remain as it is. Grave changes in the liturgy introduce grave changes in dogmata.”
-James Cardinal McIntyre addressing the Second Vatican Council.
Click to expand...
 
If this was not a TLM Mass, what does it have to do with Traditional Catholicism?

An abuse can occur anywhere. There is nothing that would physically prevent an instrumentalist from hitting notes at the wrong time. What happened was contrary to the GIRM, albeit a minor abuse. I think some of you are confusing cause and effect. Of course this wouldn’t happen at a TLM because those who now participate and attend the TLM are more sensitive to following the rules of the Church to the letter. That is far more likely an explaination than the idea that the multiple forms somehow causes people to throw out rules that are in common to all forms.

I have personnally never hear any instrument play during the words of consecration when visiting around other parishes. It is a shame that some people impose their own idea of background music at such a time. I would hope the Priest would educate his musician after that.
 
TLM08 said:
On Christmas day, during the words of consecration, the guitarist was busy plucking out melodic notes… It was simply another reminder why the Traditional Latin Mass seems to be a far more respectful and reverent manner of worship.

:cool:
Click to expand...
No disrespect to the guitarist, I’m sure he didn’t mean to be disrespectful, but unfortunately there are some people who don’t know when the bread and wine is actually consecrated to the Body and Blood of Christ. Perhaps because the vernacular OF is spoken in such a normal manner? I say keep it in Latin and the world will get it.
 
Hi pn,
pnewton said:
If this was not a TLM Mass, **what does it have to do with Traditional Catholicism? **

An abuse can occur anywhere. **There is nothing that would physically prevent an instrumentalist from hitting notes at the wrong time. **
Click to expand...
One would think an awareness of what is occuring during the Consecration would be sufficient.🤷
What happened was contrary to the GIRM, albeit a minor abuse.
Click to expand...
Minor or sacrilegious ? Again, how could someone even give a thought to “embellishing” the Consecration ? I’m not calling for the guitarist to be stoned, but as you say below, he needs a little spiritual direction.
I think some of you are confusing cause and effect. Of course this wouldn’t happen at a TLM because those who now participate and attend the TLM are more sensitive to following the rules of the Church to the letter. **That is far more likely an explaination than the idea that the multiple forms somehow causes people to throw out rules that are in common to all forms. **
Click to expand...
Fair enough, but you do agree these additions and abuses have indeed resulted in the sprouting of many forms, or versions if you will, that one would encounter if visiting many parishes ?
I have personnally never hear any instrument play during the words of consecration when visiting around other parishes. It is a shame that some people impose their own idea of background music at such a time. I would hope the Priest would educate his musician after that.
Click to expand...
Let’s hope so.

The connection I’m making is the obvious red flag waving over many of our parishes. And it’s been waving for years. Ironically, one could write a very appropriate additional verse to add to the song Blowin In The Wind inspired by the alarming liberties taken with the Novus Ordo.

The NO isn’t the problem itself. It is what it’s introduction has enabled.
 
I_Believe said:
Minor or sacrilegious ? Again, how could someone even give a thought to “embellishing” the Consecration ? I’m not calling for the guitarist to be stoned, but as you say below, he needs a little spiritual direction.
Click to expand...
I was just trying to give the man the benefit of the doubt. From personal experience, I started assisting in Mass music for about a month when both other musicians moved out of town leaving me solo. For a while, I just did the best I could. I did not know such things were wrong, even though I understood perfectly well what was going one. Thank goodness I had no serious infractions of the Mass, although I did continue a couple of things we were doing for a while. I guess that is while I sympathize.

On a side note, since this forum has been open, I have learned a great deal about liturgy from this place and the information provided here, both the mistakes people bring to this board and the documents that are provided. There is scarcely a poster here who has posted long term that I have not gleaned some insight and help from.
 
I_Believe said:
Hi pn,

One would think an awareness of what is occuring during the Consecration would be sufficient.🤷

Minor or sacrilegious ? Again, how could someone even give a thought to “embellishing” the Consecration ? I’m not calling for the guitarist to be stoned, but as you say below, he needs a little spiritual direction.
Click to expand...
It’s not a question of not being aware of what is occurring during the Consecration, it’s a question of not knowing the directives of the GIRM. Musicians aren’t really to blame, some of the Mass settings we use include music for the Eucharistic Prayer. How’s a musician to know that it’s wrong to play anything at that time unless he’s specifically taught?
 
Phemie said:
It’s not a question of not being aware of what is occurring during the Consecration, it’s a question of not knowing the directives of the GIRM. Musicians aren’t really to blame, some of the Mass settings we use include music for the Eucharistic Prayer. How’s a musician to know that it’s wrong to play anything at that time unless he’s specifically taught?
Click to expand...
Hi Phemie.

My point is, during the Consecration, what are the laity to be doing ? Aren’t we supposed to be on our knees ?

GIRM or no GIRM, Novus Ordo or Gregorian Rite, aren’t we supposed to be focused on what is happening on the Altar ?

I’m assuming we are talking about Catholics here. Does a Catholic musician need to be instructed not to play during the Consecration ? The awareness of what is happening at the Consecration should be second nature to a Catholic shouldn’t it ?

Call me hard headed. The guitarist should of been on his kness in adoration at the elevation, and the guitar should have been in the trunk of his car.
 
We visited a parish once in which the priest invited the parishioners who were present to sing the words of consecration along with him with piano accompaniment. :bigyikes:

Needless to say, we avoid this parish like the devil.
 
I_Believe said:
Hi Phemie.

My point is, during the Consecration, what are the laity to be doing ? Aren’t we supposed to be on our knees ?

GIRM or no GIRM, Novus Ordo or Gregorian Rite, aren’t we supposed to be focused on what is happening on the Altar?

I’m assuming we are talking about Catholics here. Does a Catholic musician need to be instructed not to play during the Consecration ? The awareness of what is happening at the Consecration should be second nature to a Catholic shouldn’t it ?

Call me hard headed. The guitarist should of been on his kness in adoration at the elevation, and the guitar should have been in the trunk of his car.
Click to expand...
Are musicians and the choir ever on their knees at that point? I’ve never seen them anything but ready to sing the Memorial Acclamation.
 
TLM08 said:
On Christmas day, during the words of consecration, the guitarist was busy plucking out melodic notes… It was simply another reminder why the Traditional Latin Mass seems to be a far more respectful and reverent manner of worship.

:cool:
Click to expand...
this is not part of NO, is forbidden in NO, so not fair to make a comparison. TLM is reverent yes because of its inherent makeup and structure, but I went to plenty of speedo daily Masses in the old days which were anything but.
 
Margarite said:
SO WHAT!?!
Does that make it right?!!!
Click to expand...
It is strange. I thought I posted this earlier, but know I can’t find my post.

Anyway, I have always knelt during the consecration, even with a guitar. It is easier to kneel holding a guitar than an organ, which by the way won’t fit in a trunk.😃
 
pnewton said:
It is strange. I thought I posted this earlier, but know I can’t find my post.

Anyway, I have always knelt during the consecration, even with a guitar. It is easier to kneel holding a guitar than an organ, which by the way won’t fit in a trunk.😃
Click to expand...
I don’t care what is easy, God died on a cross for us, and that certainly wasn’t easy. The least we can do is kneel in his presence.
I am sorry if I didn’t see your earlier post.

Happy New Year!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top