Guitarist in Drag

[pathia]

Well, incompetent therapists may have done more harm than good, but that doesn’t address the core issue.

I saw over fifteen ‘incompetent’ therapists. Some of them are even all over the news, some founded organizations on their processes that screwed me up so much. They’re all frauds. If you predict rain every day, eventually you’ll be right some of the time. The people they helped changed, changed on their own, or perhaps were bisexual.

Given my experience, even the people who claim change, if you talk to them in private. They’ll admit they have to turn the lights out and fantasize their brand new wife/husband is a same sex partner, to perform their marital duties. Some of the organizations have started to seriously downplay the ‘You can change’ mantra, because all these stories have been leaking out over the years from people who didn’t find any solace in the therapies.

 

[pathia]

My question – and it IS a question – is what does changing the gender externals accomplish for the person who seeks it?

Removal of an unending and unyielding depression and confusion about the very nature of one’s existence.

 

[mercygate]

I saw over fifteen ‘incompetent’ therapists. Some of them are even all over the news, some founded organizations on their processes that screwed me up so much. They’re all frauds. If you predict rain every day, eventually you’ll be right some of the time. The people they helped changed, changed on their own, or perhaps were bisexual.

Given my experience, even the people who claim change, if you talk to them in private. They’ll admit they have to turn the lights out and fantasize their brand new wife/husband is a same sex partner, to perform their marital duties. Some of the organizations have started to seriously downplay the ‘You can change’ mantra, because all these stories have been leaking out over the years from people who didn’t find any solace in the therapies.

Well, now you’ve gone down another trail here. I wasn’t addressing the same sex attraction issue; I was looking at the gender identity issue.

Are they not two different things? I know plenty of people with SSA who have never mentioned wanting to have a different body. Not that the subject comes up in general conversation. Are you suggesting that gender change is a sub-characteristic of same-sex attraction? Forgive me if I seem naive.

 

[mercygate]

Removal of an unending and unyielding depression and confusion about the very nature of one’s existence.

I’ll have to take your word for it.

 

[pathia]

Well, now you’ve gone down another trail here. I wasn’t addressing the same sex attraction issue; I was looking at the gender identity issue.

Are they not two different things? I know plenty of people with SSA who have never mentioned wanting to have a different body. Not that the subject comes up in general conversation. Are you suggesting that gender change is a sub-characteristic of same-sex attraction? Forgive me if I seem naive.

The same therapists that claim to cure SSA are the same that claim you can cure GID. I’ve been in therapy for both SSA and GID with these people.

 

[pathia]

I’ll have to take your word for it.

Well, I’ve spoken to several thousand people that have done it, and gone on to lead productive lives. Most of them were pretty bad off before hand, and things are better for them. They might not have as good a job, because we’re almost always fired as a result of the ‘coming out’ stage of this, but money isn’t everything.

Being happy with yourself and not being depressed are worth all the money in the world as far as I’m concerned. What good is it, if you hate yourself?

 

[mercygate]

The same therapists that claim to cure SSA are the same that claim you can cure GID. I’ve been in therapy for both SSA and GID with these people.

Given that there is a spectrum of severity in every condition of the human soul, I suppose SOME people can adapt to their situation and live reasonably integrated lives. The state of our knowledge in these matters is primitive and if your therapists were not even up to speed on the state of knowledge out there, then you suffered a disservice.

I suppose you explored the chicken-and-egg relationship between the depression, suicidal ideation, GID and SSA? (Don’t answer that: it’s none of my business and I am NOT a therapist, nor do I play one on TV.)

 

[pathia]

I suppose you explored the chicken-and-egg relationship between the depression, suicidal ideation, GID and SSA? (Don’t answer that: it’s none of my business and I am NOT a therapist, nor do I play one on TV.)

I wasn’t depressed until I was put into therapy when I was six and told that ‘little boys aren’t supposed to do this, this and this.’ Suddenly my entire world was ‘wrong’. Everything I did was ‘wrong’ because I was too effeminate. Boys aren’t supposed to be that way. I was forced into physical contact with other boys, forced to wrestle and hit things. It just made me break down into tears and scream.

To this day I can have panic attacks over the color pink, because I was told that’s a ‘bad color’ for boys.

 

[mercygate]

Well, I’ve spoken to several thousand people that have done it, and gone on to lead productive lives. Most of them were pretty bad off before hand, and things are better for them. They might not have as good a job, because we’re almost always fired as a result of the ‘coming out’ stage of this, but money isn’t everything.

Being happy with yourself and not being depressed are worth all the money in the world as far as I’m concerned. What good is it, if you hate yourself?

You touch on a point that has come up briefly from time to time when I have discussed this.

What’s “hate yourself” about? People who have SSA have told me that they find male-female intercourse “disgusting.” Since I do not have SSA, I don’t “hate” my husband’s maleness, nor do I “hate” my own non-maleness/femaleness. The whole idea that self hatred should be attached to one’s gender identity is simply incomprehensible to me from my admittedly naive and limited platform.

Your comments are helping me understand.

 

[pathia]

You touch on a point that has come up briefly from time to time when I have discussed this.

What’s “hate yourself” about? People who have SSA have told me that they find male-female intercourse “disgusting.” Since I do not have SSA, I don’t “hate” my husband’s maleness, nor do I “hate” my own non-maleness/femaleness. The whole idea that self hatred should be attached to one’s gender identity is simply incomprehensible to me from my admittedly naive and limited platform.

Your comments are helping me understand.

Hate is a strong word, people throw it around too much, including myself. I don’t hate maleness, I love men, I love my partner. However, I dislike maleness associated with my own body. It feels alien, it’s counter to what my brain thinks. My brain isn’t even aware that those things are there.

In my dreams I look much like I am now, but I’ve simply been female from birth. There’s nothing sexual about it, I’m simply myself, and everything is OK. But when I wake up it’s like a slap in the face when I walk in to get a shower before work and realize I’m back to having alien things attached to my body.

 

[mercygate]

Hate is a strong word, people throw it around too much, including myself. I don’t hate maleness, I love men, I love my partner. However, I dislike maleness associated with my own body. It feels alien, it’s counter to what my brain thinks. My brain isn’t even aware that those things are there.

In my dreams I look much like I am now, but I’ve simply been female from birth. There’s nothing sexual about it, I’m simply myself, and everything is OK. But when I wake up it’s like a slap in the face when I walk in to get a shower before work and realize I’m back to having alien things attached to my body.

Again, I must take your word for it, and thank you for your openness and patience in trying to explain this to me.

 

[pathia]

Again, I must take your word for it, and thank you for your openness and patience in trying to explain this to me.

I have been poked, prodded, studied, examined, x-rayed and mocked, jeered, assaulted, fired, abused over this issue. Your questions are refreshingly kind in comparison to the rest of my life’s experiences. One eventually becomes desensitized to these sorts of things.

When you live the life I do, and it gets out at work as it always will. It isn’t like being gay, you can’t hide it forever, things just eventually slip and given the…media’s portrayal of individuals such as myself thanks to Jerry Springer and CSI and various other medical dramas, they all assume we’re prostitutes or sex-fiends. I can’t even count how many times a relative stranger has felt completely OK with asking me ‘Do you still have your penis?’ in full public at work.

Can you imagine any other type of condition, or social arrangement where it’s suddenly seemingly ‘acceptable’ to ask someone about their sexual organs on a whim, at work, in public? It’s horrifying at times.

 

[mercygate]

I have been poked, prodded, studied, examined, x-rayed and mocked, jeered, assaulted, fired, abused over this issue. Your questions are refreshingly kind in comparison to the rest of my life’s experiences. One eventually becomes desensitized to these sorts of things.

When you live the life I do, and it gets out at work as it always will. It isn’t like being gay, you can’t hide it forever, things just eventually slip and given the…media’s portrayal of individuals such as myself thanks to Jerry Springer and CSI and various other medical dramas, they all assume we’re prostitutes or sex-fiends. I can’t even count how many times a relative stranger has felt completely OK with asking me ‘Do you still have your penis?’ in full public at work.

Can you imagine any other type of condition, or social arrangement where it’s suddenly seemingly ‘acceptable’ to ask someone about their sexual organs on a whim, at work, in public? It’s horrifying at times.

Where I work, that sort of thing would be considered sexual harassment and the HR department would be all over 'em like white on rice.

As for public commentary: Yeah. Pregnant women with three kids in tow get targeted. People ask them: “Don’t you know there’s a way to prevent that?” It’s kind of the same. Nobody’s business but people feel compelled to comment.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Do I? I don’t even know what you mean by that. Would you say that my “ignorance” is because I am completely gender-integrated? Generally I just don’t think much about it.

Again: I’m not a gender conflicted person, so I can’t relate to what you say. DO I “feel” female? And If I didn’t, would I want to have surgery to change it?

I understand there is a building corpus of literature on the disappointing results of sex-change surgery. Aside from the theology; is it really worth it?

Ok here is my best shot, in putting it in to words. It’s my inner essence, my inner soul, spirit, on a more surface level. The way I communicate and relate to others. as you wanting surgery, it depends on how strong you feel about it. For me it would be worth it, because otherwise I feel Im pretending, acting.
I give you credit for trying to understand. This isn’t an easy existance for me. Ive been dealing with this since the age of 5 or 6. There might have been small tell tale signs that something was up before that. Im not going to go into all the details, but there were many signs Im not really a boy. Despite not being around much feminitity as a child, especially early childhood.

 

[thistle]

Deut 22:5

"A woman shall not wear an article proper to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman’s dress; **for anyone who does **such things is an abomination to the LORD, your God.

 

[mercygate]

Deut 22:5

"A woman shall not wear an article proper to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman’s dress; **for anyone who does **such things is an abomination to the LORD, your God.

OK. OK. We KNOW that. But to the person in a TG situation, that is fairly far down the road of coping with the problem (and I still see it as a problem, although that is undoubtedly politically incorrect.

This thread has developed from the OP about the guitarist (musicians should not be in the sanctuary, whether or not they are transexuals) and for me, it has moved toward trying to understand the motivation that would compel somebody to want to undergo such drastic revision of the natural and cultural characteristics of gender identity through surgery. At least ONE component of this MUST be body dysmorphic syndrome – even making allowances for strong cultural influences on what constitiutes attractiveness.

I am learning from the patient particiation of those on this thread. I still don’t understand it AT ALL but the xy chromosome mixup is illuminating.

It’s great to cite the scriptural passages that indicate what we’re supposed to be doing. I think a TG person participating on this thread already knows those scriptures.

 

[thistle]

OK. OK. We KNOW that. But to the person in a TG situation, that is fairly far down the road of coping with the problem (and I still see it as a problem, although that is undoubtedly politically incorrect.

This thread has developed from the OP about the guitarist (musicians should not be in the sanctuary, whether or not they are transexuals) and for me, it has moved toward trying to understand the motivation that would compel somebody to want to undergo such drastic revision of the natural and cultural characteristics of gender identity through surgery. At least ONE component of this MUST be body dysmorphic syndrome – even making allowances for strong cultural influences on what constitiutes attractiveness.

I am learning from the patient particiation of those on this thread. I still don’t understand it AT ALL but the xy chromosome mixup is illuminating.

It’s great to cite the scriptural passages that indicate what we’re supposed to be doing. I think a TG person participating on this thread already knows those scriptures.

My impression, though (maybe mistaken), is that TG people do not accept that and they are looking for some justification and acceptance for their actions. In other words, they are trying to twist God to their will. Its like that with gays as well. We have to treat such people with love but try to get them to see that their actions are wrong in the eyes of God.

 

[Voradin]

I confess, I’ve wondered what it’s like to be a female,
I’m not going to get a sex change operation because of it,
instead, Ill get to know someone who is a female.
I’m heterosexual, but this is a weird thing I’ve had to deal with.

Pathia,
I want you to know I will pray for you, despite what you do.
please, with me and others keep searching for TRUTH/B]
I cry often for the confusion of our world, and every wrong.
Padre Pio thought more souls went to heaven than hell, but I want you to be careful…I want you to find PURPOSE for me.
I love you, as in the mysterious divine love for the stranger,
as in the good samaritan story.
THERE IS HOPE, FIND IT.

 

[TLM08]

Today at Mass, the (male) guitarist in the folk ensemble was dressed in women’s clothing. He is a large man who usually appears feminine and apparently is undergoing a sex change. Here’s the thing. He’s right in front in the sanctuary. What to do?

If I was the Archbishop of that diocese, I would immediately see to it that the “priest” who allowed this abomination would be stripped of his collar and find himself making a living at the local convenience store ringing up gas, lottery tickets, three dollar bottles of wine and cigarettes!

And we wonder why Mass attendance is hovering around 25%???

 

[aspawloski4th]

If I was the Archbishop of that diocese, I would immediately see to it that the “priest” who allowed this abomination would be stripped of his collar and find himself making a living at the local convenience store ringing up gas, lottery tickets, three dollar bottles of wine and cigarettes!

And we wonder why Mass attendance is hovering around 25%???

Without an investigation first? Really charitable! While Im a cradle Catholic, Baptised and Confirmed. Conservative in the way to conduct Mass. A staunch right to lifer. Attitudes like this make the thought of leaving the church come to mind. If you are focused on worshiping God like you should be, You’d hardly notice.