Gun Control & the Catholic Church

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melensdad said:
OK you say that, but what you actually choose is to not accept factual information or even to try to understand the concepts spelled out by the Vatican regarding self defense as an obligation.
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We already have a limited gun control as it is. They do background checks and if there is evidence of a psychiatric illness they refuse to sell. Now the way I see it I have never felt so insecure as to need a gun or any other weapon. I have never been carjacked or had my home broken into. I follow the motto of He who lives by the sword dies by the sword.
 
goofyjim said:
We already have a limited gun control as it is. They do background checks and if there is evidence of a psychiatric illness they refuse to sell. Now the way I see it I have never felt so insecure as to need a gun or any other weapon. I have never been carjacked or had my home broken into.
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And what does this have to do with Catholic teachings?
goofyjim said:
I follow the motto of He who lives by the sword dies by the sword.
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As do I. Do you presume that all gun owners are irresponsible gunslingers?
 
melensdad said:
And what does this have to do with Catholic teachings?

As do I. Do you presume that all gun owners are irresponsible gunslingers?
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Do you presume that all those who refuse to carry weapons of any sort are disobedient Catholics?
 
goofyjim said:
Do you presume that all those who refuse to carry weapons of any sort are disobedient Catholics?
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No, in fact I have been pretty consistent in that fact. The church states guns may be appropriate. I’ve said that. It also states you are obligated to defend yourself. How you choose to do that is your choice. But what you choose to use for your personal situation is not necessarily appropriate for others. Please read, and attempt to comprehend, what has been written here by others. You seem to take only some points and omit many others.
 
melensdad said:
No, in fact I have been pretty consistent in that fact. The church states guns may be appropriate. I’ve said that. It also states you are obligated to defend yourself. How you choose to do that is your choice. But what you choose to use for your personal situation is not necessarily appropriate for others. Please read, and attempt to comprehend, what has been written here by others. You seem to take only some points and omit many others.
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Let’s examine things a little. You say I am not obligated to carry a weapon. I certainly hope not because no matter who tells me to I will refuse. I am unable to run very fast so if I am attacked I will have no means of defense. I am also not a very good fighter. In my situation I must simply accept that if someone attacks me or points a gun at me and shoots it is my time to go.
 
goofyjim said:
Let’s examine things a little. You say I am not obligated to carry a weapon. I certainly hope not because no matter who tells me to I will refuse. I am unable to run very fast so if I am attacked I will have no means of defense. I am also not a very good fighter. In my situation I must simply accept that if someone attacks me or points a gun at me and shoots it is my time to go.
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OK then.

Understand you are still obligated to defend yourself according to Church teachings. Perhaps you could wet yourself and scream like a little girl in hopes of convincing the assailant that you are insane and they will just walk away? Just a thought.
 
melensdad said:
OK then.

Understand you are still obligated to defend yourself according to Church teachings. Perhaps you could wet yourself and scream like a little girl in hopes of convincing the assailant that you are insane and they will just walk away? Just a thought.
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That is quite rude and uncalled for. Goodbye.
 
I think that if we remove every gun from every home in the United States people will just kill each other in a different way. Removing some ‘tool’ from the equation won’t stop what made Cain kill Abel. I think the Church would rather we not sin than not buy a gun.

My wife is not a big fan of guns. My weapons are all locked up in my gun safe since I got married. She asked me one day if I felt safe like I could defend the home/family if an attacker came in? I said … sure … I’ll just use a vase or something close to take him out. It realy won’t matter if I have a gun or not.

-D
 
Just remember folks that no what the law permits when you’re driving as a passenger in my car or staying as a guest in my home there will be no guns. That is my prerogative.
 
goofyjim said:
Just remember folks that no what the law permits when you’re driving as a passenger in my car or staying as a guest in my home there will be no guns. That is my prerogative.
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You are obsolutely correct. That is your right and your perogrative, which I will respect.

(Which I why I’ll hotel it and take cabs the next time I come and visit 👍 )

Just as I hope you will respect my right to be armed if we ever run into each other at a mall. 👍
 
goofyjim said:
Just remember folks that no what the law permits when you’re driving as a passenger in my car or staying as a guest in my home there will be no guns. That is my prerogative.
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By the same token, when I am driving my car, or in my home, or walking down the street, there will be a gun.

That’s my right.

Agreed?
 
I also prefer not to have my Catholicity drawn into question over a document on the issue of gun control. It is sad that until we do something the guns will get into the hands of criminals and people will die. Doing nothing doesn’t help the situation.
 
goofyjim said:
I also prefer not to have my Catholicity drawn into question over a document on the issue of gun control. It is sad that until we do something the guns will get into the hands of criminals and people will die. Doing nothing doesn’t help the situation.
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I certainly would not question your Catholic faith.

But let me point out that disarmament only works on honest people – the criminals ignore it. The shootings at Virginia Tech are a classic example. Anyone over the age of 21 (as many students and all the teachers were) and no criminal record can get a license to carry a gun in Virginia. But the University would not allow them to carry on campus.

And 32 people died as a result of that misguided policy.😦
 
vern_humphrey said:
I certainly would not question your Catholic faith.

But let me point out that disarmament only works on honest people – the criminals ignore it. The shootings at Virginia Tech are a classic example. Anyone over the age of 21 (as many students and all the teachers were) and no criminal record can get a license to carry a gun in Virginia. But the University would not allow them to carry on campus.

And 32 people died as a result of that misguided policy.😦
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As I keep saying doing nothing will also continue to see a rise in gun crimes. So I guess it is inevitable. Me. I just wear my brown scapular every day so if someone guns me down I trust the Blessed Mother’s promise that I won’t go to the fires of hell.
 
goofyjim said:
As I keep saying doing nothing will also continue to see a rise in gun crimes. So I guess it is inevitable. Me. I just wear my brown scapular every day so if someone guns me down I trust the Blessed Mother’s promise that I won’t go to the fires of hell.
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And that is why we should not do nothing.

Those 11 states which do not have “shall issue” laws should pass such laws as soon as possible. All states should revamp their laws to eliminate “gun-free zones” – since these are nothing more than soft targets. Concealed carry licenses from one state should be automatically honored by all states – just like drivers licenses – under the Full Faith and Credit clause of the Constitution.

In other words, we should follow the Constitution.

And those persons who, like yourself, do not choose to carry should recognize that their safety is enhanced by their friends and neighbors who do carry.
 
vern_humphrey said:
And that is why we should not do nothing.

Those 11 states which do not have “shall issue” laws should pass such laws as soon as possible. All states should revamp their laws to eliminate “gun-free zones” – since these are nothing more than soft targets. Concealed carry licenses from one state should be automatically honored by all states – just like drivers licenses – under the Full Faith and Credit clause of the Constitution.

In other words, we should follow the Constitution.

And those persons who, like yourself, do not choose to carry should recognize that their safety is enhanced by their friends and neighbors who do carry.
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Sorry, I wouldn’t necessarily feel safe. Someone who has the gun may decide he doesn’t like the way I walk down the street and use it on me. Of course, he shoudl get life in prison if that happens.
 
goofyjim said:
Sorry, I wouldn’t necessarily feel safe. Someone who has the gun may decide he doesn’t like the way I walk down the street and use it on me. Of course, he shoudl get life in prison if that happens.
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It is true that one should never carry a weapon

a) unless one knows how to use it; and
b) unless one is prepared to use it.

The thing about carrying a gun is that it is a long-distance weapon. Long before a person can use your gun against you, you have to see that person, draw your gun, release the safety, warn the person (or not), and shoot.

In most cases, the person will go pick on someone else before it ever gets to the shoot stage.

Now this scenario is not true with someone who is a professional hit-person or someone operating from behind you on the element of surprise or a sociopath.

But sometimes stuff happens.
 
If the Church issued a document that said it was suddenly immoral to listen to rock and roll music I would have to disobey that one as well. I love the Beatles, Rush, Fleetwood Mac, etc. This is why I say we may be expected to defend life but I’m not necessarily worried about not carrying a gun or any other means of defense. I wear my brown scapular all the time and this my guarantee of not going to hell if I get shot or killed.
 
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