Gun Control

[AHapka]

What was your policy on non-lethal alternatives? Did you carry non-lethal weapons such as TASER?

No, we did not. They were only coming into use in the jail when I left.

 

[chain]

The points made here indicate the need for training before gun possession, an affirmative argument for gun control.

I am a proponent of education. I don’t necessarily like the idea of mandatory education, but do feel that education saves lives, and highly encourage it.

I live in a part of Texas that firearms ownership is essentially a given. I know almost every house my kids play in will contain firearms. I can not insure that every other parent will keep them secured (abet the majority probably do a pretty good job of this). They are not unique among the hundreds if not thousands of deadly object in almost every home. We teach our kids not to snort insecticide, not to run around with butcher knives (or scissors). Likewise, we teach our kids to respect firearms, while not being overly curious about them.

I teach firearm safety for 2 reasons. 1) for the kids, so they can be safe in an unsafe environment. 2) for their parents - nobody can teach a parent safety as well as their child can. I don’t teach self defense-but am not against what I teach being used as such (our class does include marksmanship).

 

[Peepers]

I am a proponent of education. I don’t necessarily like the idea of mandatory education, but do feel that education saves lives, and highly encourage it.

I live in a part of Texas that firearms ownership is essentially a given. I know almost every house my kids play in will contain firearms. I can not insure that every other parent will keep them secured (abet the majority probably do a pretty good job of this). They are not unique among the hundreds if not thousands of deadly object in almost every home. We teach our kids not to snort insecticide, not to run around with butcher knives (or scissors). Likewise, we teach our kids to respect firearms, while not being overly curious about them.

I teach firearm safety for 2 reasons. 1) for the kids, so they can be safe in an unsafe environment. 2) for their parents - nobody can teach a parent safety as well as their child can. I don’t teach self defense-but am not against what I teach being used as such (our class does include marksmanship).

My dad was former military and an active duty cop when I was a kid. I remember my ears ringing at the age of six from target practice. Guns were not a mystery, and gun safety was taught and enforced. I was a good kid. My brother was more “adventurous” and very resourceful. He figured out where the key to the gun safe was kept, and he would steal ammo to disassemble to play with the gun powder. Fortunately, he never hurt himself or anyone else doing that. My point is that all kids are different. If you have guns in the house, be even more cautious than you think you need to be if there are children around.

I have seen one accident with a gun. This was among fellow Marines who had probably shot many thousands, perhaps millions of round by then as a group in live action. Guns were second nature. I was also nearly shot by a fellow security job on a job I held briefly before I went back to school. The guy did not understand how his revolver worked, he pointed at me and pulled the trigger, thinking that the hammer would strike an empty chamber. It did not. The round missed my head by an inch or two because I started to duck a soon as I realized what he was doing. According to my mom, my dad shot a hole in the floor once while cleaning a weapon.

Yes, education and caution are important.

 

[tommcguire]

Guns pose danger, no matter how well educated people are. I choose not to own a gun. I pray we could get rid of all guns.

 

[chain]

I have been teaching firearms safety for 3 years. I live in a rural county in Texas, population is under 20,000. In that time, I am aware of two youth dying in firearms related accidents (abet these are the only 2 I have ever been aware of).

The first was a retired police officer hunting with his grandson. He tripped and somehow the rifle discharged - killing his grandson in front of him. The second was 4 teenagers (I am not sure of their age - but I think the victim was under 18). One of the boys fell backwards (tripped I think), somehow the rifle discharged - killing the girl in the truck behind him.

Both accidents could have (probably) been avoided if the rifles would have been carried on safety. Both would have been avoided if the rifles had not been chambered. Simple, easy safety habits. Neither would have been prevented by any common gun control laws.

 

[AHapka]

Guns pose danger, no matter how well educated people are. I choose not to own a gun. I pray we could get rid of all guns.

Do you feel the same way about cars? Far more people die from cars?

After all, they aren’t necessary to live. Humanity made it millions of years without them.

 

[Peepers]

I have been teaching firearms safety for 3 years. I live in a rural county in Texas, population is under 20,000. In that time, I am aware of two youth dying in firearms related accidents (abet these are the only 2 I have ever been aware of).

The first was a retired police officer hunting with his grandson. He tripped and somehow the rifle discharged - killing his grandson in front of him. The second was 4 teenagers (I am not sure of their age - but I think the victim was under 18). One of the boys fell backwards (tripped I think), somehow the rifle discharged - killing the girl in the truck behind him.

Both accidents could have (probably) been avoided if the rifles would have been carried on safety. Both would have been avoided if the rifles had not been chambered. Simple, easy safety habits. Neither would have been prevented by any common gun control laws.

Tripped and the weapon discharged… as a firearms safety instructor, you know that is precisely why one does not put one’s finger on the trigger until ready to fire.

 

[Peepers]

Guns pose danger, no matter how well educated people are. I choose not to own a gun. I pray we could get rid of all guns.

I would share that prayer, but also ask what our choices are in the current world. Evil people will use deadly force. Sometimes the only way to stop them is with opposing force.

 

[meltzerboy]

The only ones who suffer from gun control is the law abiding citizens. The criminal will always get guns no matter how much control there is. The criminal will always get illegal guns no matter how much gun control there is. See the law abiding citizen will often do what the law says but the criminal will not. To me gun control means limiting the guns for the law abiding citizen but the criminal will always have free reign. Why because they don’t care about the law. I don’t think a criminal will say “Oh we can’t have that kind of gun because its against the law.” or “I can’t have a gun because I’m a criminal.” They could care less about the laws on controlling guns.

I don’t believe any police chief in any urban city in the US would agree with you. The point, according to most of them, is that limiting the flow and illegal trafficking of guns can play a significant role in reducing gun-related injuries and deaths. Now, I think gun control is a good thing, but, at the same time, I am not in favor of banning the sale of guns to those who have a legitimate use for them, such as protecting their homes and businesses. But there has to be a better way to ensure that criminals don’t get hold of guns by legal means, such as at gun shows, as well as illegal means. I also understand that in certain parts of the country (talking about the US, particularly the South and Southwest), guns are part of the culture for hunting, collecting, and protection. I believe in such cases they should be allowed; however, even here, there still have to be some limits in regard to numbers of guns purchased and type of guns. I know the right to bear arms is guaranteed by the US Constitution. And so is freedom of speech. Yet there are restrictions to free speech when it becomes dangerous to the common welfare, and I think there should likewise be some restrictions on the sale and purchase of guns for the safety of society.

 

[tommcguire]

Alternative to guns? Trust in God! I was thinking this morning about Catholics in China. Many died in some of the most cruel of ways, yet never did they resort to guns for defense. Today Catholics continue to practice their faith and give witness to the great good news of Jesus Christ. Still no guns. Why do we think that killing with guns is really a good?

 

[Ender]

Why do we think that killing with guns is really a good?

No one thinks that killing is good. People do, however, properly believe that protecting oneself, ones family, friends, and neighbors is a good.

Ender

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

I once read that getting hurt on a golf course is more likely to happen than getting injured by a gun. I don’t know how accurate that is, but considering I have been hit by a golf ball and have never been shot with a gun, it’s certainly true for me!

 

[tommcguire]

I know the moral argument about intention. When I shoot to defend myself, I do not intend to kill the aggressor. However, deep down when one uses a gun to defend self, the death of the aggressor is felt to be better than the death of self.

On this day, when we remember the earth was still, the Lord had been killed, and as believers we know He rose again. I think about what our world would be like if we were willing to die rather than be killed. Is there something redemptive about dieing rather than killing?

Psalm 4 in morning prayer says: I will lie down in peace and sleep comes at once, for you alone, Lord, make me dwell in safety."

 

[Peepers]

I know the moral argument about intention. When I shoot to defend myself, I do not intend to kill the aggressor. However, deep down when one uses a gun to defend self, the death of the aggressor is felt to be better than the death of self.

On this day, when we remember the earth was still, the Lord had been killed, and as believers we know He rose again. I think about what our world would be like if we were willing to die rather than be killed. Is there something redemptive about dieing rather than killing?

Psalm 4 in morning prayer says: I will lie down in peace and sleep comes at once, for you alone, Lord, make me dwell in safety."

Hmmph. I believe that our intent is to kill the aggressor, and that it is rationalization to say, “Ooops, I only meant to stop him.”, or “It doesn’t count. His death was a byproduct of another intent.” If I aim a firearm at someone and pull the trigger, then I intend to kill that person. My days of doing that are over.* Thank God.* But I never fired a weapon, requested air support, requested artillery support, requested a missile strike, sabotaged anything, blew anything up, targeted anything … without knowing that people would be killed. I never aimed for non vital part of the body. The intent was to kill. If you do not believe that it is OK morally to kill another person, then my advise, as someone who is no expert on morality, but who is an expert on killing people, is that you should never pick up the weapon. If I could go back in time and shake hands with Hitler, even as a suicide bomber, I would do it and sacrifice my own soul for the redemption of so many who fell under his spell, and are lost now.

There is a very interesting book on forgiveness, called the Sunflower. It is autobiographical by the Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal. The first part of the book is his experience as a Jewish concentration camp prisoner, and his encounter with a young Nazi officer who had committed a horrible atrocity, and who was about to die and was seeking some sort of redemption. The young officer wanted the forgiveness of a Jew, and asked Wiesenthal for that forgiveness. The second half of the book is a collection of short commentary on the story by all sorts of people ranging from the Dalai Lama, to a Catholic Archbishop, and others. It is a short book, but very powerful.

 

[tommcguire]

I think about God’s will on earth as in heaven. I cannot in anyway figure out how guns fit into God’s will. Yes there are those with guns, but for those trying to do God’s will. Why do we have to use guns?

 

[starshiptrooper]

I think about God’s will on earth as in heaven. I cannot in anyway figure out how guns fit into God’s will. Yes there are those with guns, but for those trying to do God’s will. Why do we have to use guns?

To protect ourselves, our loved ones, and other innocent people.

 

[tommcguire]

This thread ha established that it is moral to use guns as lethal weapons in self defense or defense of others. We have not established it is required that one use such force. In prayer this morning Ps 65 seems to draw another picture of defense. “For you, O God, have tested us, you have tried us as silver is tried: you led us, God, into the snare; you laid a heavy burden on our backs. You let men ride over our heads; we went through fire and through water but ten you brought us relief.”

Those (men who ride over our heads) who would do us harm are the fire and water, the relief (defense if you will) is God. How hard it is to depend on God

 

[Calgar]

I think about God’s will on earth as in heaven. I cannot in anyway figure out how guns fit into God’s will. Yes there are those with guns, but for those trying to do God’s will. Why do we have to use guns?

Exchange the word guns with weapons of war. Then go and read some of the biblical battles.

Weapons have played a huge part in God’s will.

In Luke, Jesus told the desciples to go get a couple of swords (if they didn’t already have one).

 

[Peepers]

Exchange the word guns with weapons of war. Then go and read some of the biblical battles.

Weapons have played a huge part in God’s will.

In Luke, Jesus told the desciples to go get a couple of swords (if they didn’t already have one).

… and those who have been to war are often the most ardent advocates of the peaceful resolution of conflict. Jesus has something to say about that too.

 

[starshiptrooper]

This thread ha established that it is moral to use guns as lethal weapons in self defense or defense of others. We have not established it is required that one use such force.

It isn’t always required to use guns as lethal weapons, but in some cases it is.

In prayer this morning Ps 65 seems to draw another picture of defense. “For you, O God, have tested us, you have tried us as silver is tried: you led us, God, into the snare; you laid a heavy burden on our backs. You let men ride over our heads; we went through fire and through water but ten you brought us relief.”

Those (men who ride over our heads) who would do us harm are the fire and water, the relief (defense if you will) is God. How hard it is to depend on God

God helps those who help themselves.