Gun ownership in this day and age

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PhiriTalk said:
Actually I’m the Revised Standard Catholic translation is says “thou shall not kill”. Seems pretty cut and dry to me
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Read the notes:
  • Kill: as frequent instances of killing in the context of war or certain crimes demonstrate in the Old Testament, not all killing comes within the scope of the commandment. For this reason, the Hebrew verb translated here as “kill” is often understood as “murder,” although it is in fact used in the Old Testament at times for unintentional acts of killing (e.g., [Dt 4:41] The term may originally have designated any killing of another Israelite, including acts of manslaughter, for which the victim’s kin could exact vengeance. In the present context, it denotes the killing of one Israelite by another, motivated by hatred or the like.”
 
There is actually a lot of agreement here when you unpack the rhetoric. The disagreements are do to misunderstanding exactly what is being said and the is/ought problem.

I am a 66yr old female raised in big cities in the eastern US. I was never around a gun in my life at that point. Married a Wyomingite and moved there. I found myself in a culture of guns everywhere. While I did fear guns I wasn’t terrified of them, I just had never had anything to do with them. My husband grew up hunting big game and I wanted to do this, too…meat for the family as we were pretty poor. My husband taught me and I took the required gun safety classes.

I learned to use them as the tool they are and all fear left me. We responsibly kept guns in our house and I enjoyed target shooting. It’s a sport where your competition is yourself.

We are all against gun violence. We OUGHT to not have any. It IS a big issue.
We OUGHT not to ever have a child die due to terrorists. We DO.
WE OUGHT not to have so many guns in our society. We DO.

Facing the facts we need to address these issues. Those that fear anyone carrying concealed is understandable because you fear guns themselves. An air powered nail gun can be just as deadly as a gun yet you probably just consider it a construction tool!

No one wants someone fearful of guns to be carrying one. We want those trained in their use and safety to be allowed to do so. The facts on the ground are that criminals are carrying, too.

Guns OUGHT to never be in schools. They are. Students sometimes bring them in. Terrorists enter with evil intent. This IS what is happening.

The solutions are several. Security fences, patrolling armed carriers or teachers that are extensively trained and WANT to do this carrying concealed. Each district need to asses what will work best in their community and acceptability of guns overall. No one is suggesting arming teachers that do not want to do this. No one is saying this solution is for every school in every city. Everyone does want to end the violence and guns are NOT going to go away just because that would solve the problem. It won’t.

Finally, the picture upthread made me laugh…Okay school? Just okay? I want Really Good school.😂😂😂
 
@Convert3: Your correction is spot on.

The commandment “though shalt not kill” is better translated as “thou shalt not murder.”
 
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Technically, they’re not numbered in Exodus. I believe the way The Catholic Church numbers them, Thou Shall Not Murder” is the sixth. I think Protestants have it broken out differently.
 
I changed my comment. But your question/correction should be directed at Convert3, the source of the citation. Thanks.
 
A very, very cogently stated and eloquent post, Patty. I commend you and completely agree.
As far as school personnel carrying, yes, the primary purpose is protection from outside, armed intruders. The deranged student is, of course, always a possibility. As we know, it can and does happen anywhere, including very affluent areas.
 
The title of this article conflates completely separate incidents. Negligent discharges and mass shootings have nothing to do with each other.
 
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@Convert3:

Per the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the Ten Commandments are listed as follows.
  1. I am the Lord your God: You shall not have strange Gods before me.
  2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
  3. Remember to keep holy the Lord’s Day.
  4. Honor your father and mother.
  5. You shall not kill.
  6. You shall not commit adultery.
  7. You shall not steal.
  8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
  9. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.
  10. You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.
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In any case, your comment is valid.
 
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And Church teaching is crystal clear on justifiable homicide, yes?
 
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Thank you. I’m good at remembering concepts and understanding what I read, but I’m terrible at details! :crazy_face:
I stand corrected.
 
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I never understood how gun people can equate deaths as just small statistical anomalies. We hear of shootings all the time; look at yesterdays’ tragedy in Poway, California that took place in a Synagogue! Sadly, there are just too many shootings for me to start listing them off. The insanity is that now they are a familiar occurrence in schools and the only solution is to teach kids “shooter drills” to help them avoid being shot?

The high-capacity magazine ban initiated in the 90s was a good and effective law. Many Republicans supported the Bill. It was just unfortunate that the N.R.A. under the apoplectic leadership of Wayne LaPierre started a campaign to oppose any regulation of any kind on firearms. In 1995, he sent out a vile letter to all his members stating their distain of all law enforcement officers calling them; “jack-booted thugs” and “wearing Nazi bucket helmets and black storm trooper uniforms”.

His message had devastating results; it caused former President George H.W. Bush to submit his resignation as a lifelong N.R.A. member. Also days after the release of LaPierre’s message, Timothy McVie (an N.R.A. Member of four years) blew up the Oklahoma City Federal Building.

No effect? I can go on…
 
@prayerrider

Trained security personnel or police officers, not teachers, should keep schools safe. Back in the 1970s, a plainclothes police officer was assigned to my high school. His job was to stop rampant pot smoking in the building.
 
Church teaching is that “Thou shall not kill”. Seems pretty cut and dry to me.
 
In general I agree. However there are a number of variables such as gang violence (definitely need full time LEOs), and budget. Some rural schools can’t even afford classroom supplies or paras, let alone full time security.
 
That is proof texting, a practice common to fundamentalist Protestants.
 
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PhiriTalk said:
Church teaching is that “Thou shall not kill”. Seems pretty cut and dry to me.
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Church teaching also allows self defence. Even with lethal force if necessary.

Personally I think the second amendment needs to go. I don’t think it’s likely in the near future though.
 
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