Guns and God????

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Well, I know for a fact is that my hand gun has killed less people than Ted Kennedy’s car.🤷
 
aggiecatholic05 said:
…the majority of states allow CONCEALED carry. that means you cant see the gun. there are less than 10 states that allow open carry.
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Actually there are 48 states that allow concealed carry and there are 43 states that allow open carry in some form and 11 states allow open carry with no permit, no license, etc.

I believe that there are a lot more people carrying guns around (lawfully) than most anti-gun people realize. The general mindset of the anti-gunner is that if the gun is unseen then it does not exist. That was the mindset of my former neighbor. She was a Chicago girl who moved out here to rural Indiana with her family and was as anti-gun as you could get. Of course we purchased our property specifically because we could shoot on our land. Sort of made for some odd relations.

But until she saw a gun she was totally fine. As soon as one was visible she began to worry and fear. Well my tractor’s gun rack caused her grief. My hip holster caused her grief. A gun on my hip was no problem as long as a shirt was covering the offending gun because it was out of sight - out of mind.

Talk about irrational fear.

That is what much of this thread is about. Simple irrational fear. ** I don’t see any purpose for the Baptist minister to hold this event of his.** But it strikes me that people here are afraid of folks they go to church with every week, or they see at the school yard ground every day when they pick up their children. That is irrational fear.
  • ** OMGoodness I didn’t know you have a gun, it might go off! ** Yup, if I take it out and point it at a bad person and pull the trigger.
    But, its scary and I don’t want to see it!
    Close your eyes and it won’t be there anymore, but if you don’t want to be near a gun
    then you better move to Chicago where they are illegal and there is no crime :rolleyes: *
If I carry a gun daily, then why am I all of a sudden a friendly gun when my gun is tucked in but I’m simultaneously a scary guy if my gun is exposed? I was under the impression I was the same guy either way! 50% of your neighbors have guns. More than that in many areas of the nation, less than that in some areas. On any given day you may encounter 15 or 20 people, the odds are, based on concealed carry permits issued, 2 of those people LEGALLY has a gun with them when. Could be me at the school playground picking up my daughter. Could be your hair dresser. Could be the clerk at the local store. Or even the pastor at the Baptist church.

I think the people who are afraid of guns have no idea how many good honest people they meet EVERY DAY who have guns in their homes, and, more and more frequently, carry guns with them for protection. Sometimes even to church. I can tell you that before Obama was elected 11% of my state’s adult population had a license to carry a firearm. I also know that the number has dramatically climbed since the election and the state is backlogged with license applications. It is estimated that the % of the state’s population with a License to Carry a Handgun may reach 18-to-20% of the adults. That is 1 out of every 5 adults folks. Run and hide??? Or realize that a lot of very good honest people are out there and able to protect themselves.
 
Newbie2 said:
Perhaps this pastor and Fred Phleps could get together and form a new church.
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Not sure I understand the connection. I like guns and have a lisence to carry, as well as a pretty big collection.

How does that make me like Fred Phelps?
 
DaveBj said:
The whole point of my having a concealed-carry permit is that I can carry a weapon concealed, which means no one else knows about it but me. Yeah, if a LEO asks, I have to tell him/her, but it’s nobody else’s business.

This pastor has gone all in-your-face with what should be a private decision. I don’t think he’s doing the pro-2nd-Amendment movement any good.

DaveBj
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Well I don’t have a “concealed carry permit” and my state does not even issue them. I have a “license to carry a handgun” and it allows both OPEN and CONCEALED carry at your option. Usually I carry concealed, but sometimes I carry openly, its a heck of a lot more comfortable.

All that said, I don’t understand the point of the pastor to have this event.
 
I live in the same town where this event will take place & actually grew up not too far from this church. The consensus here is that this pastor is either off his rocker or using his church to make a politcal statement.
 
Michael_C said:
When I think of Waco I think of how the government needlessly murdered all of those people.
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Right, and no matter that David Korresh was a demagogue, a charlatan, a raping pervert, and a liar. Our government should have left all those kids in his capable, benevolent, heroic hands. And they should have done the same favor for Jim Jones, too, yessiree.
 
There are probably other churches where people have concealed carry, where the pastor knows about it and is fine with it. Probably more than most people would guess. Those pastors just don’t make a public deal out of it.

This guy is making a public deal out of it for some self-serving purpose, obviously. Probably laying the foundations for a run at political office.

Sensible voters won’t vote for him.
 
NCSue and others afraid of guns (particularly women) I recommend the website corneredcat.com. Otherwise, instead of basing your fears and opposition on what you hear from a biased media get educated, read a few books on the topic, subscribe to a gun magazine, learn what owning a gun is really about.

I’m a gun owner. The purpose of my owning a gun is not to shoot someone… that is the last thing I really want to have to do. The purpose of my owning a gun is to be able to protect myself and my family should something happen. Otherwise it is actually fun to go to the shooting range and make one single hole on my target with ten rounds (my marksmanship is rather good).

One thing you would find on the website I recommend is the mentally of the gun owner. If there is an intruder in the house or an attacker in the parking lot, the decision to shoot is not to punish the intruder/attacker, the decision is based on surviving.

Free men own guns, slaves don’t.
 
Angelstar said:
The purpose of my owning a gun is to be able to protect myself and my family should something happen.
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My problem with some gun owners is that they consider gun ownership the be-all and end-all of home protection. It is not. That’s why I own a dog.

I’m also a gun owner but anti-NRA.
 
Beau_Ouiville said:
My problem with some gun owners is that they consider gun ownership the be-all and end-all of home protection. It is not. That’s why I own a dog.

I’m also a gun owner but anti-NRA.
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Oh make no mistake, I don’t at all believe owning a gun is the “be all end all”. Make sure your doors are locked, own a dog if you can (I prefer big dogs), if you can afford an alarm system… by all means, get one, train yourself and your family about what to do in different situations just as you would with fire safety… all that good stuff. My way of living is basically with a determination not be one of those people on the news who say “I didn’t think it could happen to me”… or worse, raped and killed. I’m not paranoid… making my home safe to the best of my ability or to be aware of my surroundings wherever I go is as natural for me to do as it is for me to eat breakfast in the morning or brush my teeth before going to bed. I believe the website I gave covers that over all point of being aware. I see owning a gun as being an adaptation to my lifestyle as it already was… I always kept my doors locked, my windows locked, I’ve always taken inventory of my surroundings when out and about… now, I just have another means of protection.

Why are you anti-NRA, if I may ask?
 
colmywaykurtz said:
Right, and no matter that David Korresh was a demagogue, a charlatan, a raping pervert, and a liar. Our government should have left all those kids in his capable, benevolent, heroic hands. And they should have done the same favor for Jim Jones, too, yessiree.
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You’re right, those children are much better off dead.
 
God commands us to protect the innocent and weak. Even the Catechism of the Catholic Church states that IF (IF) it becomes necessasry to use deadly force:

“2265 Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for someone responsible for another’s life. Preserving the common good requires rendering the unjust aggressor unable to inflict harm. To this end, those holding legitimate authority have the right to repel by armed force aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their charge.66”

This is why people such as myself have obtained a licenst to carry concealed deadly weapons.
 
NCSue said:
OK. I need your help here.

Today I read a news story at msnbc.msn.com/id/31111096/ that has been bugging me, and I simply can’t seem to put it into words… although I tried on my blog today at acts17verse28.blogspot.com/2009/06/guns-and-god.html#comments.

The story involves a pastor from an Assemblies of God church in Kentucky who’s inviting his congregation to carry guns into church as part of their July 4 celebration. There will be a handgun raffle and gun safety courses. His rationale is that, without religious faith and guns, we would not have our country and its freedoms.

Am I full of it? Is this appropriate?

Help?
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It is totally appropriate. I carry my .380 Kel Tek in church and everywhere allowed by law. I can not predict the future, hence I must be prepared for the future in a responsible way. I have my concealed deadly weapons license (CCDW). Considering the Obama admin. quest to remove guns from Americans, I would like this question answered:

Were American officials to go door to door to remove guns from its citizens who have a RIGHT to own and use them, fully knowing that crime would skyrocket as it has in England and Australia who disarmed their citizens, and good guys would be defenseless to protect their loved ones , would it be murder to kill the officials who show up at our doors? Or would it be justifiable self defense as spelled out in 2265 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Recall the Nazis disarmed their citizens and the Jews and the Pols and all the citizens in the countries they overtook. Look at North Korea. Look at Russia.

Would it be considered WAR against our government?
 
Angelstar said:
Why are you anti-NRA, if I may ask?
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It is far too political with its donation dollars, letter writing machine and attempts to cow any politician who goes against it or proposes what it views as ‘anti-gun’ legislation. The NRA’s stance against taggants in explosives removed an anti-terror weapon from the US Homeland Security arsenal and explosives have nothing to do with guns, the second amendment or home protection. Taggants are microscopic identifiers in explosives which would tell where the dynamite (or other substance) was made and when. Its like a serial number for something which could be used as a weapon and could have stopped a guy like the Unibomber.

But the NRA is agin’ it so Congress backed off it. Nice, huh?
 
Beau_Ouiville said:
It is far too political with its donation dollars, letter writing machine and attempts to cow any politician who goes against it or proposes what it views as ‘anti-gun’ legislation. The NRA’s stance against taggants in explosives removed an anti-terror weapon from the US Homeland Security arsenal and explosives have nothing to do with guns, the second amendment or home protection. Taggants are microscopic identifiers in explosives which would tell where the dynamite (or other substance) was made and when. Its like a serial number for something which could be used as a weapon and could have stopped a guy like the Unibomber.

But the NRA is agin’ it so Congress backed off it. Nice, huh?
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Beau, your post is a total crock and you know it. We’ve covered your misrepresentation of the so-called taggants issue before and you’ve been debunked. What you claim about stopping someone like the Unibomber is absolutely false. Absolutely untrue.

As for your false claim they are too political with their donation dollars you must understand the NRA supports BOTH political parties and has many Democrats on its Board of Directors (both past and present) as well as Republicans. The NRA is a single issue lobbying organization. But it clearly and obviously supports BOTH parties. So your claim about being too political with donation dollars is bunk since the NRA does not look at the political party at all but rather looks at the positions of the candidate, and/or the voting record of the legislator, and does so on only the issue of guns.
 
If you disagree, just say so. Please do not accuse me of dishonesty.

I refer you to forum rules:

“Please do not call people liars or say they lie in the forum, nor link to articles that do so. Not only is this uncharitable, but we have found that calling one person a liar leads to others calling other people liars and the forum quickly degenerates into a shouting match of name calling.”
 
Beau_Ouiville said:
If you disagree, just say so. Please do not accuse me of dishonesty.
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Beau, I’ve provided the proof to dubunk your claims about the taggants in at least one thread here on CAF. We’ve hashed the whole taggants issue out in the past. You were proven wrong then. What you claim is absolutely not true. Its not a matter of me disagreeing with you. Its is a matter of fact that you cannot prove that the taggants could do anything you claim they could do.

Further, the way you represent the issue of taggants and the NRA position regarding them is also not accurate.
 
Beau_Ouiville said:
My problem with some gun owners is that they consider gun ownership the be-all and end-all of home protection.
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Are they here on Catholic Answers?

I’ve not seen that opinion represented here. Sir Knight is probably our strongest pro-gun/pro-concealed carry voice on these forums but he does not exclude other methods of home protection and he actually advocates a multi-layer approach. Many others do the same. Dogs, good locks, exterior lights, alarm systems, and yes, guns. I’m certainly outspoken when people misrepresent guns, but in no way do I suggest that they are the end-all of home protection. In fact I think they are simply the last resort. ***After all else fails ***then there is the gun. But when a gun is necessary there is no other good substitute.
 
SamH said:
You’re right, those children are much better off dead.
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Look again, Sam, they didn’t ALL die. The ones who survived and got out of his clutches ARE better off.

I refuse to believe that sack of fertilizer was a HERO, anymore than Jones was.
 
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