B
babochka
Guest
Nothing. Those who wished to enter religious life would continue to do so in the same manner that they always have.
- Status
C
Cthompson
Guest
I had a thread about this a while ago. I believe if secular priests have the option to live in community with other secular priests, it would help more men to solidify their vocation. I think some men are afraid that they will be alone and having the option to live in community might not be a bad option for some.
G
Gorgias
Guest
Then, in all charity, please don’t presume that what you see locally is what is happening everywhere in the Church.
No, it really isn’t. And, more to the point, whether it’s “foisted” upon them or not isn’t the point. What’s the point is whether it’s fair to allow a ‘retired’ priest to take on (what you call) a full-time priest’s load. Is that really how you treat your retired priests?
Ask. Then tell me I’m smug.
B
brian_custer
Guest
so the job of the parish is to support the priest and “his wife & family” so that the pastor can “feel good” about his sexual tensions?
what happens when the pastor’s children want cars, college educations, etc, etc
is that on the parishioners?
in my parish we are lucky to keep the AC on in summer and the snow plowed in the parking lot in winter
what happens when the pastor’s children want cars, college educations, etc, etc
is that on the parishioners?
in my parish we are lucky to keep the AC on in summer and the snow plowed in the parking lot in winter
Last edited:
D
dallas_r
Guest
Priests are married to the church and that’s the way it should be. I wouldn’t want to be a married priest, it just wouldn’t feel right.
B
babochka
Guest
First, to answer your questions, the priest would be paid a salary, just as the priest is paid a salary today. Yes, it would need to be more than it currently is, in order to support a family. If the pastor’s children want cars, college educations, etc, etc., then the family would need to budget for these items as any other family does, or tell the children that they can’t afford it. If the family feels that they can’t make it on a single salary, then perhaps the priest’s wife would work - or not. Again, this would be a family decision that would most definitely not be the business of the parishioners. Do you feel the same way if you hear that a celibate priest takes a vacation to some destination that you can only dream about? What if he spends his “parishioners” money on sending his nieces and nephews to Catholic school or he takes care of elderly parents? Do you gripe about supporting his family, or is it only the sex that bothers you? I am happy to give my support to my priest and his family. We (the whole parish) see this as our obligation and wish we could do more for them.so the job of the parish is to support the priest and “his wife & family” so that the pastor can “feel good” about his sexual tensions?
what happens when the pastor’s children want cars, college educations, etc, etc
is that on the parishioners?
in my parish we are lucky to keep the AC on in summer and the snow plowed in the parking lot in winter
I don’t think that the Latin Church should change her discipline and I don’t think practical considerations, such as money, should be the primary factor in making a change or not. I think the long-standing tradition of clerical celibacy and the very strong theological basis for clerical celibacy stand alone.
I have been so active in this thread because of attitudes like the one you display in this post. I have felt the need to defend and protect every holy, married priest that the Church has ever ordained and the holy, self-sacrificing wives that have accompanied them. I am so offended by your attitude that it is all about the pastor “feeling good about his sexual tensions”. Marriage, like the priesthood, is a vocation. For those who are called to marriage, it is a call to a life of self-sacrifice. As my (married) pastor puts it, marriage is a slow death - a death to self. The priesthood is also a call to a life of sacrifice in service to others. Both vocations are paths to holiness for those who are called. Some are called to both. Those men who live out both vocations are heroic. They sacrifice daily for their wives and children, they sacrifice for their spiritual children as well. Hundreds of married priests were martyred by the communists in Eastern Europe. Study the life of Priest and Martyr, Blessed Emilian Kowcz and come back to me and tell me how he was an insufficient priest who couldn’t control his sexual urges…
Continued in next post…
B
babochka
Guest
Continuation…
I see my own pastor pour out his life for his family, for us, his parishioners, and for the parishioners of the Latin Rite parish where he says Mass a couple of times a week. He and his wife are both open about the struggles of living out both vocations and I understand that it is not easy. His humility, his love for God, his dedication to both of his vocations, his perseverance through self-doubt and all of life’s difficulties are an example and an inspiration to me. He has baptized and confirmed my children, he hears my confessions. He brings me Christ in the Eucharist to nourish my body and my soul. He teaches, he admonishes, he guides, he encourages. In short, he is a priest. An outstanding priest. Does he have as much time to dedicate to ministry as a celibate priest? No. But what he has, he gives. I know celibate priests who enjoy a number of hobbies: golfing, snow skiing, mountain biking, and one even spends his time practicing gourmet cooking. My pastor can be found at a kids’ soccer game on his day off.
Much the same can be said of every married priest I know. Please do not tear down their lives of sacrifice and service with your crude and crass characterizations of the sacrament of marriage that they are living out with their wives.
How would it seem if I reduced the gift of celibacy to bachelorhood and referred to priests who work 60-80 hours per week as “workaholics”. It would be wrong and would display a deep misunderstanding of their vocation. You are doing the same.
I see my own pastor pour out his life for his family, for us, his parishioners, and for the parishioners of the Latin Rite parish where he says Mass a couple of times a week. He and his wife are both open about the struggles of living out both vocations and I understand that it is not easy. His humility, his love for God, his dedication to both of his vocations, his perseverance through self-doubt and all of life’s difficulties are an example and an inspiration to me. He has baptized and confirmed my children, he hears my confessions. He brings me Christ in the Eucharist to nourish my body and my soul. He teaches, he admonishes, he guides, he encourages. In short, he is a priest. An outstanding priest. Does he have as much time to dedicate to ministry as a celibate priest? No. But what he has, he gives. I know celibate priests who enjoy a number of hobbies: golfing, snow skiing, mountain biking, and one even spends his time practicing gourmet cooking. My pastor can be found at a kids’ soccer game on his day off.
Much the same can be said of every married priest I know. Please do not tear down their lives of sacrifice and service with your crude and crass characterizations of the sacrament of marriage that they are living out with their wives.
How would it seem if I reduced the gift of celibacy to bachelorhood and referred to priests who work 60-80 hours per week as “workaholics”. It would be wrong and would display a deep misunderstanding of their vocation. You are doing the same.
Last edited:
B
brian_custer
Guest
you made some good points
but it all comes down to the salary a typical diocese is able/willing to pay a priest
it isn’t much…
but it all comes down to the salary a typical diocese is able/willing to pay a priest
it isn’t much…
Last edited:
X
Xantippe
Guest
Our old pastor here in TX was reassigned to a new posting where he has 2 (maybe even 3) rural parishes, plus a ridiculous number of prisons.
I can’t even venture to say how many hours that probably adds up to, if one is at all conscientious. 50-60 hours is probably very conservative, given commuting time between locations.
Similarly, I see that in my home town in WA, my hometown parish is bundled with another even smaller parish about 30 miles away (bad country roads), plus two prisons.
I can’t even venture to say how many hours that probably adds up to, if one is at all conscientious. 50-60 hours is probably very conservative, given commuting time between locations.
Similarly, I see that in my home town in WA, my hometown parish is bundled with another even smaller parish about 30 miles away (bad country roads), plus two prisons.
J
jas84173
Guest
How many of you guys responding live celibate lives? If you don’t you have no reason talking crap about opening up to married priests.
A
anikins
Guest
I know three priests who left the priesthood after the met a woman they decided they wanted to marry. One got permission from the pope to marry within the church. It happens.
L
LoyalViews
Guest
I live a celibate life.
The tradition of the Church as developed differently in various areas, but we are all one in the love of God. His truth comes to us because we are members of His body. In the Orthodox traditions of our Church, the married priesthood has every historical basis and God seems to have granted His grace to work through it. In the Anglican rite of the Church, a married priest is a given. God works His grace through all of His priests. In the Latin Rite, the priest is celibate for a reason. My goodness, out of the numerous priests I know in our rite, they spend probably only sleeping time at home. I cannot imagine how their marriages would work out. Every priest knows his sacrifices.
However, I can’t imagine being in a relationship. I can’t imagine being married. Hence my discernment.
The tradition of the Church as developed differently in various areas, but we are all one in the love of God. His truth comes to us because we are members of His body. In the Orthodox traditions of our Church, the married priesthood has every historical basis and God seems to have granted His grace to work through it. In the Anglican rite of the Church, a married priest is a given. God works His grace through all of His priests. In the Latin Rite, the priest is celibate for a reason. My goodness, out of the numerous priests I know in our rite, they spend probably only sleeping time at home. I cannot imagine how their marriages would work out. Every priest knows his sacrifices.
However, I can’t imagine being in a relationship. I can’t imagine being married. Hence my discernment.
A
anikins
Guest
Some statistics on celibacy within the priesthood that may be beneficial to the thread:
Last edited:
R
Randolph
Guest
If that’s the case, their calling is to have their own families—not to the priesthood. There is nothing depressing about that. We all have own vocation to be faithful to. The priesthood is a vocation of joy and of service—not a punishment.
A
AlNg
Guest
I don’t understand why it should be that way for the Eastern Orthodox church?
A
AlNg
Guest
How reliable are these statistics? I thought that it was a mortal sin to have sex outside of marriage? Unless that has changed, why not allow these priests to marry to enable them to have their wife and be in the state of grace at the same time? Why make things so difficult for these priests who I am sure are worthy men who many people would like to see in heaven and not the other place.
A
anikins
Guest
The data sources are listed in my response, though keep in mind that a sample of 1500 individuals represents a small fraction of the church. These statistics were found to be reliable enough that they have been cited by the US Conference of Catholic Bishops.
Correct.
That would be ideal! I agree with you. I suppprt the married priests that I know. The are just as happy, faithful and fufilled as can be. My hometown priest is married and once told me that “he’s a better priest because of his wife”. I think that’s beautiful. I would support the end of priest celibacy.
Last edited:
B
babochka
Guest
This is not on the table. Once ordained, priests have never been allowed to marry, East or West.
B
babochka
Guest
I’m immediately suspicious of these statistics because they quote the 10% figure for homosexuals, calling it the “presumed rate in the general population”. Presumed by whom? The source of the figure is the Kinsey report. The flawed methodology of this study is well known. It is the statistic most frequently cited by homosexual activists and is commonly quoted in the media, but no other survey has found this number to be remotely accurate. Most studies show figures between 2% and 4% and women are more likely to be homosexual than men.
So 2/3 of the respondents were either in therapy or known to have had a sexual relationship with a priest? Doesn’t seem like a neutral sample group to me.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Yeah, no kidding. I guess the mentally stable priests were probably mostly too busy like, ministering to their parishioners to cooperate in what they probably realized would be a biased priest bashing survey.
- Status