H3ritic daily question

[Garyjohn2]

I also heard that the cutain being torn in the temple is significant. It wouldn’t have been written in the gospel unless it was. There was an earthquake at the death of Christ, and many things probably broke or fell over. The curtain in the temple is specifically mentioned, so of course it is important.

It is torn from the top to the bottom, not the other way around. That is also significant. At the moment of Christ’s sacrifice, he united us to the Father. We are not perfect, or totally united, but you know what I mean. Our sins were forgiven. The “barrier” was taken away. God’s grace became available to us. This is the significance of the mentioning of the curtain in the temple being torn, from the top, down.

This doesn’t mean we don’t need priests, or spiritual leaders. It also doesn’t mean that we don’t need Christ, or people to act as Christ in our ceremonies and services. If that was the case, the verse would probably read “the curtain was torn and all the priests in the temple dropped dead.” Thankfully, it doesn’t say that!

I think it just means God removed the previous barriers to our salvation when he sent Christ to redeem us. It would have been very powerful imagery to the Jews of the time when the Gospels were written. Any other interpretation would seem to be a stretch of the imagination to me…but of course I’m willing to listen.

 

[zz912]

2 Peter

1:20 Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation,

 

[MarcoPolo]

What do you guys believe about tounges, what are the church regulations on that, and what are the scriptures and/or historical documents that the church based that decision on?

I agree, new topics should get a new thread. But for now…

*CCC#2003 Grace is first and foremost the gift of the Spirit who justifies and sanctifies us. But grace also includes the gifts that the Spirit grants us to associate us with his work, to enable us to collaborate in the salvation of others and in the growth of the Body of Christ, the Church. There are sacramental graces, gifts proper to the different sacraments. There are furthermore special graces, also called charisms after the Greek term used by St. Paul and meaning “favor,” “gratuitous gift,” “benefit.” Whatever their character - sometimes it is extraordinary, such as the gift of miracles or of tongues - charisms are oriented toward sanctifying grace and are intended for the common good of the Church. They are at the service of charity which builds up the Church. (cf. Lumen Gentium 12 and 1 Cor 12).*Regarding “regulations”, I’m not a Canon Law expert, but if you want to search for “tongues” page by page from current Canon Law, here’s the link.

 

[quasimodo]

I’ll be stunned if there is a word in the code of canon law about tongues. I’ve taken classes that are concerned with canon law and at no point did we come close to any thing that might refer to the subject.

the Church recognizes that the gift of tongues exists but I’m not sure much more is taught. Some corners of the church (corners in good standing) are quite active and involved with this gift but my personal opinion is that 90% of the time it is phony. YMMV.

 

[st_lucy]

I mean that in respect etc…

but it is a bit like what you are asking in some of your posts thus far.

for much happened in the Church prior to the Bible being gathered and put together as a canon of particular books…and much has happened since.

the written Word of God is …well the Word of God…but that does not mean one may not draw on history, early Christian writings, etc to answer questions…

And to add to what you have stated St John did state in the Bible, that not everything is written in the bible.

John 21:25

If we only use the bible to try to understand God’s plan than we fall short. That is why God gave us the Church, to help guide us. He is such a good Father that he knows our weakness and knows that we need His guidance. This is why we have priest.

 

[Della]

OK guys, open heart. Listen, after hearing your responses I looked for the supporting scriptures and what I found was what my response was. I remembered reading the verse on the curtains in the temple opening a while back and was interested in knowing if it had any relevance. I’m asking these questions because I want to know, but with people assuming things, it doesn’t tell me much but ones eagerness to prove someone wrong. That is not my point here! So continue with the answers. I am pretty specific about reading verses and praying about them and letting God lead me and not someones opinion. I am not quick to assume, just looking for some answers. God lead me here so thats where I’m at. So continue with your breakdown. Remember, talk to me like you were to convince me to convert, not so eager to strike me down.

No one is eager to strike you down. We are trying to get you to see that your approach is basically flawed. Jesus never commissioned anyone to write down anything. He established his Church and sent out his Apostles to teach not to write, per se. Take note that only a very few of the Apostles wrote anything at all, not all twelve. If Jesus had had in mind that only what was written down by the Apostles was to be believed, he would have said so and all of them would have written their own Gospels and their own Epistles.

You need to read some history–reliable history on the Bible, what it is, what it isn’t, and how we came to have it. The best book for lay people on the topic is available online: Where We Got the Bible: Our Debt to the Catholic Church.

The Bible is extremely important, of course, but it is not the only source for knowing the truth Christ came to give us. It is part of the Sacred Tradition of the Church Christ founded. You need to understand this plain, historical fact before you can know what is true and what isn’t.

 

[h3ritic]

k guys, thanks for your answers. Been praying, got everything I need now. Sorry that I was so much trouble but I just have one more question and that should be it. Is there anything not Biblicaly sound about Non-Denominational churches and do most Catholics dispise them (maybe despise is a harsh word, but you know what i’m saying)? I love you guys, go in peace.

PS, didn’t change the subject, the subject has been my daily questions! Sorry for the misunderstanding

 

[MarcoPolo]

Is there anything not Biblicaly sound about Non-Denominational churches and do most Catholics dispise them (maybe despise is a harsh word, but you know what i’m saying)? I love you guys, go in peace.

There really isn’t anything in the Bible about “non-denominational” churches as the term is understood today, but it’s true, Christ’s Church is not a “denomination.” Jesus built one Church, singular (ἐκκλησία, Matthew 16:18; Matthew 18:17, Acts 2:47, etc…) The references to “churches” in Revelation are referring to regional “churches,” part of the one Church—not disconnected churches teaching their own interpretations separately.

Catholics do not despisetoday’s non-denominational churches (at least they shouldn’t!) We of course believe the fullness of Christ’s Church subsists in the Church today known as the Catholic Church to which all men are lead, however, there are other Christian communities rightly called “Christians.” See Lumen Gentium #15 and surrounding paragraphs. God bless!

 

[bpbasilphx]

…

1. What do you guys believe about tounges, what are the church regulations on that, and what are the scriptures and/or historical documents that the church based that decision on?

It’s a non-issue.

There are some devout Catholics active in the Charismatic movement, and there are some devout Catholics who have reservations (to put it mildly) about it.

It’s strange that now you allow non-Biblical documents on this question.

 

[bpbasilphx]

k guys, thanks for your answers. Been praying, got everything I need now. Sorry that I was so much trouble but I just have one more question and that should be it. Is there anything not Biblicaly sound about Non-Denominational churches and do most Catholics dispise them (maybe despise is a harsh word, but you know what i’m saying)? I love you guys, go in peace.

PS, didn’t change the subject, the subject has been my daily questions! Sorry for the misunderstanding

**There is no such thing as a non-denominational church, or Christian.

There may be a denomination of just one congretation (or Christian), but most such would be found to fit quite nicely into one of the existing denominations.

One thing you do NOT find in the Bible are independent congregations, accountable to noby but themselves.

For that matter, you will not find altar calls, invitation hymns, or revivals in the Bible, either.**

 

[Della]

k guys, thanks for your answers. Been praying, got everything I need now. Sorry that I was so much trouble but I just have one more question and that should be it. Is there anything not Biblicaly sound about Non-Denominational churches and do most Catholics dispise them (maybe despise is a harsh word, but you know what i’m saying)? I love you guys, go in peace.

PS, didn’t change the subject, the subject has been my daily questions! Sorry for the misunderstanding

Catholics despise no one, especially not those who love the Lord, too.

The Holy Father recently wrote a letter in which he called non-Catholic bodies of believers “ecclesial communities”. IOW, they weren’t founded by Christ, but they believe in him and honor him. Only the Catholic/Orthodox Church can claim to have been founded by Christ himself, therefore, there are not many denominations, really, there’s only the Church and all others that broke away from it or broke away from the ones that broke away. It’s like a big crack in a mirror with lots of little cracks coming from the one big one.

So no, the non-denominational ecclesial bodies are not biblical at all in their foundations. The Church founded by Christ is the only one we find in the Bible, not hundreds of little bodies all claiming to be the remnant of the early Church. The early Church was one, Catholic, and apostolic, and still is.

 

[Ignatius]

Matthew 27:51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split.

Not sure whether this is relevent or not. But I think it means that anyone could reach God through the temple after Jesus’ death.

Welcome my brother.
Sorry to bother you with this, but your verse doesn’t even mention priests. Was that a typo or the wrong verse?
I am curious where you find in Scripture that there is to be an end of the priesthood? Especially please explain this in light of the clear fact that the three levels of priestly offices of Episkopos (that’s Bishop in English), Presbyters (that’s priest in English), and Deaconi (thats Deacons in English) are clearly documented in Holy Scripture.

Your Servant in Christ.

 

[Garyjohn2]

I don’t know if there is anything in the Bible about denominations, and I don’t think that word is even in the Bible. The thing to notice here is that there wasn’t any such thing as a “denomination” before people started splitting off from the catholic church. You were either a christian, or you weren’t.

Christ founded one church, one way of life. It continued for over a thousand years before people started disagreeing with it and changing it to suit their own ways.

Really, I don’ t know if there is anything Biblical OR un-Biblical about non-demoniationals in particular, but I’m SURE you can find verses about christian unity. (non)Denominations just shouldn’t exist! It’s better if we are all together!

 

[Ignatius]

Is there anything not Biblicaly sound about Non-Denominational churches and do most Catholics dispise them (maybe despise is a harsh word, but you know what i’m saying)?

Actually many, maybe even most, of the folks here come from a non-Catholic (protestant, Baptist, Evangelical, non-denom) backbround. Some were even Pastors of sizable congregations. We love many things about our former denominations in which we got started on our faith journey. Especially the Love of Christ, the zeal to follow Him and the first knowledge of the Bible that we received. If it was not for that we would not have started on our journey to Christ and the descovery of His Church.

You ask if there is not biblically sound about these denominations. Well, unfortunately, there is no consistency in teaching in them. Every individual congregation of course follows the teachings of their pastor and you can usually go right down the street to another non-denominational church and find the opposite being taught and every one of them claims that their interpretation of Scripture is guided by the Holy Spirit. Even at the beginning of the reformation there was no unity of teaching. Even in the lifetimes of the reformers themselves the splintering had become bad that Luther himself lamented that at that time “there are as many interpretations as there are heads”. This has led to such a splintering that within the number of denominations multiplied into the thousands. That has now accelerated to the point that now every congregation is like a separate denomination. That is what led to the adoption of the term non-denominational. The schisms became so frequent that it was possible to come up with names so they just stopped naming them and now every congregation is it’s own denomination. This is clearly contrary to the unity of Teaching that Jesus called for.

We know that Jesus founded a Church, He said he would and He always keeps his word. Instead of asking of there is anything wrong with a given Christian group or denomination, I would suggest praying about and asking the following question:
How can I find the Church that Our Saviour Jesus Christ founded when He walked the Earth 2000 years ago?

May the Lord always guide and richly bless you all the days of your life.

Your Servant in Christ

 

[JRKH]

k guys, thanks for your answers. Been praying, got everything I need now. Sorry that I was so much trouble but I just have one more question and that should be it.** Is there anything not Biblicaly sound about Non-Denominational churches **and do most Catholics dispise them (maybe despise is a harsh word, but you know what i’m saying)? I love you guys, go in peace.

PS, didn’t change the subject, the subject has been my daily questions! Sorry for the misunderstanding

Yes there is something not biblicly sound about “non-denominational” or any other Church that is not united to Christ in His one body. I don’t have much time but will give you some things to consider. I apologize for not having chapter and verse handy.
The main issue is one of unity and of authority.

1. 
   *]The Term Church is used only twice in the Gospels - Both times by Jesus himself and both times in reference to granting authority to “bind and loose”, that is to make judgement.
   
   *]In Mt 18 it tells us to take disputes, which would include doctrinal disputes, to “The Church” and to abide by "The Church’s decision
   
   *]The council of Jerusalem in Acts demonstrates that, when local communities had a serious dispute they could and did appeal to the Church in council to resolve such dispute. This resolution thus determined applied to the entire Church and not just to the particular church, in this case Antioch.
   
   *]The Holy Spirit was sent to lead us into all truth - That is a single truth - God’s Truth. He cannot teach one group or person that, for instance, baptism is required and another group or person that it is not required. Even worse is the idea that the Hly Spirit would teach one group, from the bible, that Christ is Truly present in the Eucharist, and another group that he is not. Such opposing views cannot both be from God.
   
   *]Christ prayed that His followers be one as He and The Father are one. Churches teaching different and opposing beliefs do not fulfill this.
   
   *]If the Holy Spirit DID inspire such men as Luther and those who followed his lead in Accepting the Bible Only premise, there should be only one protestant Church, inspired by the one Truth, and not the thousands that exist today, each teaching something different and each claiming the Bible and the Holy Spirit as thier authority.
   
   *]Your premise of asking if being non-catholic is biblically sound is off base since the Bible canon itself is a product of The Catholic Church, held and defended and taught from officially since around 400 AD. The Bible, as constituted by the Catholic Church at that time and reaffirmed several times - All before the Protestant reformation - was never intended to be the sole rule of faith. St Paul tells us that it is “The Church” which is the “Piller and Foundation of Truth”.
   
   I truly hope this gives you some things to consider prayerfully.
   
   Peace
   James