Had vasectomy - so where does it leave me

[Martin987]

We must redeem the language. …
It is NOT preventing pregnancy. It is avoiding pregnancy. Two completely different things.

Thank you very much for that simple explanation, you’ve explained it better in 12 words than I’ve learnt from several years wondering & 10 pages of posts. Now I understand why the Church thinks that there is a difference between the two.

 

[KostyaJMJ]

We must redeem the language. …

It is NOT preventing pregnancy. It is avoiding pregnancy. Two completely different things.

What you’re saying is much clearer now.

 

[Vico]

except that the collins english dictionary is sorely mistaken…the rhythm method is NOT natural family planning.

and and natural family planning is NOT contraception. It is impossible for a non-action to be against something.

The rhythm method is the Knaus-Ogino method. In An Address of Pope Pius XII to the Seventh International Hematological Congress in Rome. (Friday September 12, 1958) was written:

“On the contrary, the use of natural temporary sterility, according to the doctor Ogino-Knaus, does not violate the natural order, as described above practice, since conjugal relations respond to the will of the Creator. When this method is used by serious reasons provided (and eugenic indications of such a serious nature may be) is morally justified.”

So I think you mean that the Collins English dictionary is wrong to include the rhythm method as contraception, because rhythm is abstinance at the appropriate times.

 

[agapewolf]

The rhythm method is the Knaus-Ogino method. In An Address of Pope Pius XII to the Seventh International Hematological Congress in Rome. (Friday September 12, 1958) was written:

“On the contrary, the use of natural temporary sterility, according to the doctor Ogino-Knaus, does not violate the natural order, as described above practice, since conjugal relations respond to the will of the Creator. When this method is used by serious reasons provided (and eugenic indications of such a serious nature may be) is morally justified.”

So I think you mean that the Collins English dictionary is wrong to include the rhythm method as contraception, because rhythm is abstinance at the appropriate times.

No, thats not what I mean. Just because it means abstinence (even though its not at the approrpiate times most often because it is flawed), and its morally acceptable, it certainly isn’t considered a “method” today, and it does not mean it is included in the term “natural family planning” today. It is flawed that it doesn’t plan anything. Today, when people use the term “natural family planning” they are referring to one of the 4 methods. (When they know what they are talking about).

 

[Vico]

No, thats not what I mean. Just because it means abstinence (even though its not at the approrpiate times most often because it is flawed), and its morally acceptable, it certainly isn’t considered a “method” today, and it does not mean it is included in the term “natural family planning” today. It is flawed that it doesn’t plan anything. Today, when people use the term “natural family planning” they are referring to one of the 4 methods. (When they know what they are talking about).

I have difficulty understanding you. According to Marquette College of Nursing there are four basic methods of natural family planning, which are: Calendar Method (rhythm), Basal Body Temperature (BBT), Ovulation Method (OM), Sympto-thermal Method (STM).

marquette.edu/nursing/NFP/

So rhythm, which is Knaus-Ogino method, is both a method and NFP. Please tell me what the four methods are if this is incorrect.

 

[agapewolf]

I have difficulty understanding you. According to Marquette College of Nursing there are four basic methods of natural family planning, which are: Calendar Method (rhythm), Basal Body Temperature (BBT), Ovulation Method (OM), Sympto-thermal Method (STM).

marquette.edu/nursing/NFP/

So rhythm, which is Knaus-Ogino method, is both a method and NFP. Please tell me what the four methods are if this is incorrect.

I already told you, calender method is incorrect…
The 4 basic methods are sympto thermal, marquette, creighton, and billings

None of them involve a calender as a main (or even a 2ndary) mode of determining fertility

 

[Vico]

I already told you, calender method is incorrect…
The 4 basic methods are sympto thermal, marquette, creighton, and billings

None of them involve a calender as a main (or even a 2ndary) mode of determining fertility

But there is still promoted use of at least one calendar method, for example in 1999 Georgetown University introduced the Standard Days Method, especially useful in developing countries.

That brings the list to these methods of NFP:

Calendar Method (obsolete rhythm - 9% rate, Perimon, and Standard Days Method - 5% rate)
Basal Body Temperature (BBT - 0.3%) temperature
Ovulation Method (OM) - Billings and Creighton
Sympto-thermal Method (STM, 1, 2, or 3 symptoms)
Marquette (hormonal measurement)

 

[agapewolf]

But there is still promoted use of at least one calendar method, for example in 1999 Georgetown University introduced the Standard Days Method, especially useful in developing countries.

That brings the list to these methods of NFP:

Calendar Method (obsolete rhythm - 9% rate, Perimon, and Standard Days Method - 5% rate)
Basal Body Temperature (BBT - 0.3%) temperature
Ovulation Method (OM) - Billings and Creighton
Sympto-thermal Method (STM, 1, 2, or 3 symptoms)
Marquette (hormonal measurement)

Language must be accurate. Putting calendar method in under the same umbrella and calling it “natural family planning” is misleading and inaccurate and is not at all useful when educating people about it.

It does NOT count as natural family planning, in the common use of the term.

 

[Vico]

Language must be accurate. Putting calendar method in under the same umbrella and calling it “natural family planning” is misleading and inaccurate and is not at all useful when educating people about it.

It does NOT count as natural family planning, in the common use of the term.

The following are all acceptable natural contraceptive (avoiding conception by avoiding fertile periods) methods, and the Calendar Methods are excluded from the umbrella term NFP, more recently, by USCCB. (But one will still them all classed as NFP in many documents and websites.)

Natural Methods
a. Calendar Method (obsolete rhythm - 9% rate, Perimon, and Standard Days Method - 5%, Two Day Method)
b. Natural Family Planning Methods
Basal Body Temperature (BBT - 0.3%) temperature
Ovulation Method (OM) - Billings and Creighton
Sympto-thermal Method (STM, 1, 2, or 3 symptoms)
Marquette (hormonal measurement)

The USCCB site on NFP:
usccb.org/prolife/issues/nfp/information.shtml

 

[agapewolf]

The following are all acceptable natural contraceptive (avoiding conception by avoiding fertile periods) methods, and the Calendar Methods are excluded from the umbrella term NFP, more recently, by USCCB. (But one will still them all classed as NFP in many documents and websites.)

Natural Methods
a. Calendar Method (obsolete rhythm - 9% rate, Perimon, and Standard Days Method - 5%, Two Day Method)
b. Natural Family Planning Methods
Basal Body Temperature (BBT - 0.3%) temperature
Ovulation Method (OM) - Billings and Creighton
Sympto-thermal Method (STM, 1, 2, or 3 symptoms)
Marquette (hormonal measurement)

The USCCB site on NFP:
usccb.org/prolife/issues/nfp/information.shtml

First of all, it is not a contraceptive. It isn’t “against” anything. It is avoiding. 2 different things.

2nd, why are you arguing this? It makes no sense…do you want to “win” something? You are completely missing my point by arguing semantics. It does NO ONE any good to include the calendar method in the terms of “NFP” when speaking about NFP. The effectiveness statistics lower, etc, its obsolete. My point is proven that it isn’t included in your latest quote. I’m saying common use of the term does not include Calendar.

 

[Vico]

First of all, it is not a contraceptive. It isn’t “against” anything. It is avoiding. 2 different things.

2nd, why are you arguing this? It makes no sense…do you want to “win” something? You are completely missing my point by arguing semantics. It does NO ONE any good to include the calendar method in the terms of “NFP” when speaking about NFP. The effectiveness statistics lower, etc, its obsolete. My point is proven that it isn’t included in your latest quote. I’m saying common use of the term does not include Calendar.

I am not arguing, I have learned that not all the approved methods are classed as NFP, and am not including calendar methods in NFP. Look at the outline again and you will see that. I do not disagree about the word contraceptive, it has more than one meaning per the dictionary; I add the parenthetical to avoid an argument.