Hades, Purgatory

[Vico]

I don’t think there is as much difference on this matter as some polemicists on each side would like us to believe. For example, compare the following two Eastern Orthodox authorities on this topic with the Florentine and Tridentine defintions of Purgatory:

First, in his First Homily on Purgatorial Fire, St. Mark of Ephesus stated the following: “But if souls have departed this life in faith and love, while nevertheless carrying away with themselves certain faults, whether small ones over which they have not repented at all, or greater ones for which - even though they have repented over them - they did not undertake to show fruits of repentance: such souls, we believe, must be cleansed from this kind of sins but not by means of some purgatorial fire or a definite punishment in some place.” And he also adds that these pains are “more torment than any fire…terror…that is much more tormenting and punishing than anything else.”

And then there is the Confession of Dositheus from the Council of Jerusalem in 1672:

“And such as though envolved in mortal sins have not departed in despair, but have, while still living in the body, repented, though without bringing forth any fruits of repentance — by pouring forth tears, forsooth, by kneeling while watching in prayers, by afflicting themselves, by relieving the poor, and in fine by shewing forth by their works their love towards God and their neighbour, and which the Catholic Church hath from the beginning rightly called satisfaction — of these and such like the souls depart into Hades, and there endure the punishment due to the sins they have committed. But they are aware of their future release from thence, and are delivered by the Supreme Goodness, through the prayers <152> of the Priests, and the good works which the relatives of each do for their Departed; especially the unbloody Sacrifice availing in the highest degree; which each offereth particularly for his relatives that have fallen asleep, and which the Catholic and Apostolic Church offereth daily for all alike; it being, of course, understood that we know not the time of their release. For that there is deliverance for such from their direful condition, and that before the common resurrection and judgment we know and believe; but when we know not.”

One Orthodox told me that the Dositheus Confession was greatly influenced by the West and was not really representative of Orthodoxy.

 

[Wesley7]

I remember this thread, I do believe that some form of purgatory exists as a extension of His infinite mercy.

 

[Gregory_I]

Here is the “official” Orthodox view given at Florence By Bessarion of Nicea and Mark of Ephesus.

"The Greeks demanded a written exposition of this doctrine. When they received it, Mark of Ephesus and Bessarion of Nice each wrote their remarks on it, which afterwards served as a general answer to the doctrine of the Latins. [3]

When giving in this answer (June 14th), Bessarion explained the difference of the Greek and Latin doctrine on this subject. The Latins, he said, allow that now, and until the day of the last judgment, departed souls are purified by fire, and are thus liberated from their sins; so that, he who has sinned the most will be a longer time undergoing purification, whereas he whose sins are less will be absolved the sooner, with the aid of the Church; but in the future life they allow the eternal, and not the purgatorial fire. Thus the Latins receive both the temporal and the eternal fire, and call the first the purgatorial fire.

On the other hand,** the Greeks teach of one eternal fire alone**, understanding that the ***temporal punishment ***of sinful souls consists in that they for a time depart into a place of darkness and sorrow, are punished by being deprived of the Divine light, and are purified—that is, liberated from this place of darkness and woe—by means of prayers, the Holy Eucharist, and deeds of charity, and not by fire. The Greeks also believe, that until the union of the souls to the bodies, as the souls of sinners do not suffer full punishment, so also those of the saints do not enjoy entire bliss."

orthodoxinfo.com/death/stmark_purg.aspx

 

[Wesley7]

This post was very informative and I agree with it Thank you -

 

[Fuerza]

The Greeks also believe, that until the union of the souls to the bodies, as the souls of sinners do not suffer full punishment, so also those of the saints do not enjoy entire bliss."

orthodoxinfo.com/death/stmark_purg.aspx

It’s worth noting that the Latins also believe this. While the saved currently experience the bliss of the Beatific Vision and the damned suffer the torments of Hell, neither will experience these completely until the resurrection of the body, when the rewards/punishments will affect both body and soul.

 

[mardukm]

Ahhh! One can see the misunderstanding that went on back then. Mark of Ephesus/ Bessarion explain Purgatorial fire as a means to “absolve sins.” But I’ve never heard or read the Latins teach it that way - Purgatory has nothing to do with absolving sins, which can only occur in this life, but has to do with the temporal punishment due to sin. It’s like the telephone game, which is probably what it amounted to since most of the Fathers at Florence were not fluent in both Latin and Greek and probably had to depend on translators most of the time.

Blessings,
Marduk

Here is the “official” Orthodox view given at Florence By Bessarion of Nicea and Mark of Ephesus.

"The Greeks demanded a written exposition of this doctrine. When they received it, Mark of Ephesus and Bessarion of Nice each wrote their remarks on it, which afterwards served as a general answer to the doctrine of the Latins. [3]

When giving in this answer (June 14th), Bessarion explained the difference of the Greek and Latin doctrine on this subject. The Latins, he said, allow that now, and until the day of the last judgment, departed souls are purified by fire, and are thus liberated from their sins; so that, he who has sinned the most will be a longer time undergoing purification, whereas he whose sins are less will be absolved the sooner, with the aid of the Church; but in the future life they allow the eternal, and not the purgatorial fire. Thus the Latins receive both the temporal and the eternal fire, and call the first the purgatorial fire.

On the other hand,** the Greeks teach of one eternal fire alone**, understanding that the ***temporal punishment ***of sinful souls consists in that they for a time depart into a place of darkness and sorrow, are punished by being deprived of the Divine light, and are purified—that is, liberated from this place of darkness and woe—by means of prayers, the Holy Eucharist, and deeds of charity, and not by fire. The Greeks also believe, that until the union of the souls to the bodies, as the souls of sinners do not suffer full punishment, so also those of the saints do not enjoy entire bliss."

orthodoxinfo.com/death/stmark_purg.aspx