Hahahha look at this--may be crack in the pro-abort wall

[cove]

Tlaloc:

That’s fine, but don’t treat your belief as unquestionable fact. I don’t see it as an oxymoron at all. Miracle in no way implies beautiful, only strange, unexplained, or unprecedented. In fact if anything its easier to argue child birth is hideous than miraculous.

You seem to have a very shallow view of human life that you equate dislike for the look of something as dislike of the thing itself. Do you hate everyone who is ugly and love everyone beautiful? Hopefully not and yet your logic in assuming I hate infants suggests so. Sad really. And the funny thing is you thought you were pointing out an ugly facet of my personality.

LOL, right I have a shallow view of human life? That is a really funny one coming from someone who would kill a human life in the womb. That, my dear sir, is about as shallow as you can get.

Good try Tlaoc but it won’t work. Trying to cover your butt on this one, Huh?? Te He, but, your words are quite clear and it is quite obvious that you are one of those pro-deathers who would legalize infanticide. Admit it man. You hate infants even to the point of agreeing that they should die because of their hideous appearance at birth. May I quote you? " And despite what anyone tells you all newborns are not beautiful. In fact given the various fluids they tend to be coated in and the frequent deformations of the head as they are born they are often pretty hideous" I can see why you think they should die before they emerge from the womb.

tch, tch, tch shame on you.:tsktsk:

miracle

n 1: any amazing or wonderful occurrence 2: a marvellous event manifesting a supernatural act of God

I am surprised that an Athiest would equate anything at all with an act of God.

 

[Tlaloc]

cove:

LOL, right I have a shallow view of human life? That is a really funny one coming from someone who would kill a human life in the womb. That, my dear sir, is about as shallow as you can get.

I try not to judge people on appearances. I consider it to be shallow. If you’re okay with it then fine, but of course I will judge you accordingly.

Good try Tlaoc but it won’t work. Trying to cover your butt on this one, Huh??

Covering what precisely? Your interpretation that “ugly” means “bad”? that isn’t my butt in the sling, cove.

Te He, but, your words are quite clear and it is quite obvious that you are one of those pro-deathers who would legalize infanticide.

You see a lot of things “clearly” that aren’t true. I don’t see any reason to legalize infanticide.

Admit it man. You hate infants even to the point of agreeing that they should die because of their hideous appearance at birth.

Did I say that? Nope. In fact I don’t even think it. That’s all a function of your faulty view that something hideous can be killed. I think newborns are often hideous. Plenty of adults are hideous too. In neither case do I advocate killing them due to their looks.

May I quote you? " And despite what anyone tells you all newborns are not beautiful. In fact given the various fluids they tend to be coated in and the frequent deformations of the head as they are born they are often pretty hideous" I can see why you think they should die before they emerge from the womb.

I’m glad you quoted me as it shows I said nothing at all like you claim I said. I am pro-choice but based on nothing so gauche as appearance. If you want to read why I am pro-choice read the “Rational Abortion Support” thread I authored.

Then again if you insist on ascribing your prejudices to me I’d rather you didn’t.

miracle

n 1: any amazing or wonderful occurrence 2: a marvellous event manifesting a supernatural act of God

I am surprised that an Athiest would equate anything at all with an act of God.

First off, I’m not an atheist. Second off, did you notice the first definition when you cut and pasted it?

 

[Tyler_Smedley]

Tlaloc, just when I think I have a handle on how you think you suprise me. Who would call their own children’s birth “a rather messy and often pretty disgusting event” what is up with that?

Also your coments about newborns seem to me at the least heartless, and at the most evil. I will illistrate…

“And despite what anyone tells you all newborns are not beautiful. In fact given the various fluids they tend to be coated in and the frequent deformations of the head as they are born they are often pretty hideous”…

…wow…I really don’t know what to say there but I am glad that you aren’t refering to me as “hideous”. Why don’t you seem to like children? And why are you in oppisition to ever major Catholic Social and Moral teaching, is there something bigger here that meets the eye?

Not to Change the subject, so I will return to my stance of ITS A BABY FROM CONCEPTION!!! and ABORTION IS KILLING A HUMAN PERSON. Now I feel better about the Whole thing.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

And again this baby is beautiful

 

[Tyler_Smedley]

Darn Straight!

 

[marinebiogurl04]

Tlaloc:

Frankly watching my own kids born was a rather messy and often pretty disgusting event.

So you have kids…that’s interesting. Let me get this strait…you are fine with having your own kids live, but when it comes to other people, they can murder all they want? That makes no sense. In the end, abortion just adds more killing to a world which already has way too much. I know that I’m glad my Mom chose life, and I would bet that you’re glad yours did too.

 

[cove]

Tlaloc:

I try not to judge people on appearances. I consider it to be shallow. If you’re okay with it then fine, but of course I will judge you accordingly…

LOL, seems I have pinched a nerve on the pro-deather. Gee, maybe a pro-deather does have a heart. He seems to be very intent on turning the table here and accuse me of something that he is the only one on the thread to have done. I have not judged anyone by there appearance. YOU are the one who is judging the pre-born not human and not worthy of life. YOU are the one judging the new born as “hideous”.

I am more then happy to judge you accordingly and expose the evil that lurks in your heart.

Tlaloc:

Covering what precisely? Your interpretation that “ugly” means “bad”? that isn’t my butt in the sling, cove.

LOL, still trying to cover you ***. seems you on on a mission to do some damage control here. You are losing this phoney facade that you are so intent on displaying on these threads. Trying so hard to come off legit because you think if you use your flawed logic and come across looking knowledgable you can come off making a pro-death agenda seem “rational”.

Tlaloc:

Did I say that? Nope. In fact I don’t even think it. That’s all a function of your faulty view that something hideous can be killed. I think newborns are often hideous. Plenty of adults are hideous too. In neither case do I advocate killing them due to their looks.

The only one here with a faulty view is YOU. YOU tell us that pre-borns are not human and there for are not worthy of life.

You are a part of the “slippery slope”. First you present the pre-born human as not human so kill them. Then you present a side of your personality that is very telling. The fact that you would call a new born hideous makes one wonder if your next step will be to advocate killing them, too. You show little respect for human life at it’s most vulnerable.

Tlaloc:

I’m glad you quoted me as it shows I said nothing at all like you claim I said. I am pro-choice but based on nothing so gauche as appearance. If you want to read why I am pro-choice read the “Rational Abortion Support” thread I authored.

You are pro-choice/pro-abortion/pro-death. You judge humans in their smallest and most vulnerable stage of life and say they are not human. It seems very clear that you are judging on appearance.

I read your thread and your flawed reasoning. You would make a wonderful Nazi. Hitler would be proud.

Tlaloc:

Then again if you insist on ascribing your prejudices to me I’d rather you didn’t.

You come on these forums and have done nothing but try to ascribe your prejudices to others. You want others to rationalize that a human is not a human and is therefore not worthy of life. Hitler did the same thing and he got alot of people to believe it. I would rather you did not spew your hatred and prejudices toward a class of humans (the pre-born and judging from your statements new born human as well) for the sole purpose of killing them.

Tlaloc:

First off, I’m not an atheist.

YOUR NOT AN ATHEIST??? I think Hitler thought he believed in God, too.

 

[km112482]

I watched “In the Womb” on sunday night. I thought it was amazing to see how from the moment of conception it clearly shows that the baby has its own dna and is certainly a life. I never knew that fetus was latin for offspring. I guess you do learn something new everday.

I know this much that I would like to hope that maybe someone out there who was considering an abortion or who was proabortion watched this documentary and maybe changed their view on things. One can only hope.

I know that we cannot change everyones’ minds, but to me the documentary was a good way to because it didnt use religion or any force it just showed you the facts and that alone may have been enough to change someones mind.

I pray for all those unborn babies who dont have a chance to defend themselves. I pray for their mothers also. I pray for an end to abortion also, but until people open their eyes to how wrong it is it will be a long time before that can happen. But nothing is impossible with God.

God Bless all of you,
Kerri

 

[K777angel]

Lilyofthevalley:

I don’t know how any of you good people could POSSIBLY have a problem with Ms. Heffernan or anything she says. After all, she has a PhD from Harvard​

Aha!!! Proof there is such thing as an educated idiot.

Yes - as Father John Corapi says, "Many today have been educated into imbecility"

 

[Tlaloc]

Tyler Smedley:

Tlaloc, just when I think I have a handle on how you think you suprise me. Who would call their own children’s birth “a rather messy and often pretty disgusting event” what is up with that?

I consider a red football shaped head on a small human covered in mucus, blood, and other things to be kind of gross. YMMV.

…wow…I really don’t know what to say there but I am glad that you aren’t refering to me as “hideous”. Why don’t you seem to like children?

Actually I do like children. Haven’t you learned from Cove’s mistake not to assume that appeareance and appreciation are the same?

And why are you in oppisition to ever major Catholic Social and Moral teaching, is there something bigger here that meets the eye?

I’m not in opposition to all Catholic teachings. But I’m not likely to talk to you about the stuff we agree on, what’s the point: we already agree.

Not to Change the subject, so I will return to my stance of ITS A BABY FROM CONCEPTION!!! and ABORTION IS KILLING A HUMAN PERSON. Now I feel better about the Whole thing.

That’s your subjective opinion of what a human being is, welcome to it.

 

[Tyler_Smedley]

K777angel:

Yes - as Father John Corapi says, "Many today have been educated into imbecility"

I love it!

 

[Tlaloc]

marinebiogurl04:

So you have kids…that’s interesting. Let me get this strait…you are fine with having your own kids live, but when it comes to other people, they can murder all they want? That makes no sense.

???
You really don’t understand what “pro-choice” means? It doesn’t mean believing all pregnancies should be terminated. It means believing everyone has the right to decide to terminate their pregnancy (within guidelines). My wife (at the time) and I chose to have our two kids. We respect that someone else may choose to have an abortion.

In the end, abortion just adds more killing to a world which already has way too much. I know that I’m glad my Mom chose life, and I would bet that you’re glad yours did too.

Precluding abortion adds more suffering to a world that also has too much already.

 

[Tyler_Smedley]

Tlaloc:

I consider a red football shaped head on a small human covered in mucus, blood, and other things to be kind of gross. YMMV.

You didn’t say kind of gross you said hideous that has a different meaning and conitation all together.

Tlaloc:

Actually I do like children. Haven’t you learned from Cove’s mistake not to assume that appeareance and appreciation are the same?

No but they are linked and from your posts it is not a hard decision to come to that you really don’t like children, due to you negitive attitude to them all the time.

Tlaloc:

I’m not in opposition to all Catholic teachings. But I’m not likely to talk to you about the stuff we agree on, what’s the point: we already agree.

What are some Catholic teachings that you uphold?

Tlaloc:

That’s your subjective opinion of what a human being is, welcome to it.

That is not a subjective opinion it is a rational logical fact! The scientific community holds that life begins at conception, not before, and not after! That is objective in your face TRUTH.

 

[Tlaloc]

cove:

LOL, seems I have pinched a nerve on the pro-deather. Gee, maybe a pro-deather does have a heart. He seems to be very intent on turning the table here and accuse me of something that he is the only one on the thread to have done. I have not judged anyone by there appearance.

False.

I said newborns are often hideous.
You said that meant I hated them. Obviously you are the one who has assumed “something hideous is hateful” not I.

YOU are the one who is judging the pre-born not human and not worthy of life. YOU are the one judging the new born as “hideous”.

No, and yes. I don’t judge whether fetuses are “worthy of life.” I do however judge whether or not I consider them to be human beings. I did indeed say newborns are often hideous.

I am more then happy to judge you accordingly and expose the evil that lurks in your heart.

Feel free but I’m not going to let you pretend you didn’t just admit to judging people based on their looks. See when people (i.e. you) expose their raging prejudices and try to blame them on me I take a certain satisfaction of strangling them with their faux pas.

The only one here with a faulty view is YOU. YOU tell us that pre-borns are not human and there for are not worthy of life.

You can read my position in “Rational Abortion Support.”

You are a part of the “slippery slope”. First you present the pre-born human as not human so kill them. Then you present a side of your personality that is very telling.

Please quote where I did this. Actually you can’t.

The fact that you would call a new born hideous makes one wonder if your next step will be to advocate killing them, too.

Thank you for admitting you believe the hideous are hateful. Can I assume you’ll now stop denying you feel this way?

You are pro-choice/pro-abortion/pro-death. You judge humans in their smallest and most vulnerable stage of life and say they are not human. It seems very clear that you are judging on appearance.

My definition of human has nothing to do with appearance, it rests on biological function.

I read your thread and your flawed reasoning. You would make a wonderful Nazi. Hitler would be proud.

I should have gotten out a stop watch to see how long it would take you to invoke hitler. Meanwhile you’re still the only one with an admitted prepensity to judge the hideous as worth killing.

You come on these forums and have done nothing but try to ascribe your prejudices to others.

False, you’re just sore I caught you in such an obvious blunder.

You want others to rationalize that a human is not a human and is therefore not worthy of life. Hitler did the same thing and he got alot of people to believe it. I would rather you did not spew your hatred and prejudices toward a class of humans (the pre-born and judging from your statements new born human as well) for the sole purpose of killing them.

Neat. And I’d rather you didn’t pretend your shallow prejudices were actually mine, but somehow I suspect you’ll continue to.

YOUR NOT AN ATHEIST??? I think Hitler thought he believed in God, too.

Three hitlers in one post? That may be a record.

 

[Tyler_Smedley]

Tlaloc, maybe dictionary.com is incorrect…but

hid·e·ous ( P ) Pronunciation Key (hd-s)
adj.
Repulsive, especially to the sight; revoltingly ugly. See Synonyms at ugly.
Offensive to moral sensibilities; despicable.

dictionary.reference.com/search?q=hideous

That does look hateful to me…especially that despicable word, Offensive to moral sensibilities woud mean that your morals find the child offensive which would allow you to maintain you support of killing them…

 

[marinebiogurl04]

Tlaloc:

???
You really don’t understand what “pro-choice” means? It doesn’t mean believing all pregnancies should be terminated. It means believing everyone has the right to decide to terminate their pregnancy (within guidelines). My wife (at the time) and I chose to have our two kids. We respect that someone else may choose to have an abortion.

Tlaloc:

Who are you to say what I do and don’t understand?? Ya, I think that being pro-choice means that all pregnancies should be terminated…that’s crazy

…You must think I am a real idiot…I understand perfectly well what being pro-choice is…But I don’t agree with it on any level because it is not our choice who should live and who should die. we are never going to agree and you just like to argue with people…So all I can do is pray for you and people like you…So you go ahead and think killing innocent people is ok…we’ll see where that gets you…

 

[cove]

Tyler Smedley:

Tlaloc, maybe dictionary.com is incorrect…but

hid·e·ous ( P ) Pronunciation Key (hd-s)
adj.
Repulsive, especially to the sight; revoltingly ugly. See Synonyms at ugly.
Offensive to moral sensibilities; despicable.

dictionary.reference.com/search?q=hideous

That does look hateful to me…especially that despicable word, Offensive to moral sensibilities woud mean that your morals find the child offensive which would allow you to maintain you support of killing them…

EXACTLY!!! Well put:thumbsup:

I have been in many a debate with pro-deathers. How often I have seen them make hateful references to the pre-born child in their attempt to dehumanize them. Tlaloc is no different then all the rest. And, this little twisted word play only makes him look more like a fool. Trying to evade the fact that he made a hateful comment about a newborn child.

Just for the record–I would never call anyone hideous. Except someone who was “offensive to my moral sensibilities” and acted in a “despicable” way. Someone does come to mind…

 

[Tyler_Smedley]

Ha ha ha…darn right…its just uncooth to say. Mean and vulgar to say about children!

 

[Tlaloc]

Tyler Smedley:

Tlaloc, maybe dictionary.com is incorrect…but
hid·e·ous ( P ) Pronunciation Key (hd-s)
adj.
Repulsive, especially to the sight; revoltingly ugly. See Synonyms at ugly.
Offensive to moral sensibilities; despicable.
dictionary.reference.com/search?q=hideous

That does look hateful to me…especially that despicable word,

Despicable is only in one of the definitions and hateful is in none of them. Hideous means ugly. Ugly, at least to me, does not mean hateful. You may of course have a different way of relating toi the world.

Offensive to moral sensibilities woud mean that your morals find the child offensive which would allow you to maintain you support of killing them…

Why not use the definition I actually intended instead of searching for one that means something else?

 

[Tlaloc]

marinebiogurl04:

Who are you to say what I do and don’t understand??

The question marks mean it was a question not a statement. I was confused how a person could not understand a parent being pro-choice. From the way you worded your statements it sounded like you thought pro-choice people wanted all pregnancies terminated. I found it hard to believe anyone would actually believe that and hence I asked my question.

Ya, I think that being pro-choice means that all pregnancies should be terminated…that’s crazy…

Well we agree on that much.

You must think I am a real idiot…

No but I think your original statement was pretty unclear. Why exactly do you have trouble understanding that I can be a parent and be pro-choice?

I understand perfectly well what being pro-choice is…But I don’t agree with it on any level because it is not our choice who should live and who should die.

That’s fine, you certainly don’t have to agree with me, I’m more interested in correcting misperceptions than winning converts.

we are never going to agree and you just like to argue with people…

I do enjoy a good debate but that’s because we need such conflict in order to prevent faulty thought processes from becoming habit.