Hail Mary: 'Our Lord' or 'The Lord'?

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Laudate_Dominum said:
Bishop Challoner translated the Ave as Hail Mary, full of grace, our Lord is with thee. And have you seen the Pater? There a variations of these and any combination of the two: …]as we forgive them/those who/that trespass against us.

One’s not more right than the other. Stick with the translation of what you find the most beautiful (personally for me, that’s anything published pre-1900). Or even better: say it in Latin! 😃

P.S. Bishop Challoner also gave “amongst” for “among”! 🙂
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👍

Sometimes I will pray in Latin for awhile. I would like to get to a point that it is natural for me.
 
HelenRose said:
I will change my habit of saying among to amongst. And I forgot the word “our” as in our death. That was just a typo.

This is because I have always preferred “amongst” but kind of went with the flow.
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I was honestly surprised to hear people pray with “among.” I’ve always used “amongst” when praying the Hail Mary.
 
_Kevin said:
(I’m new here, so I hope this is the correct place to post this!)

I’m very new to the Catholic faith and have recently begun praying the Rosary daily. I have a fairly simple question, though I’ve been unable to find an answer anywhere online, so I was hoping someone could enlighten me. When I memorized the Hail Mary prayer, I used this website, which says the prayer goes:

'Hail Mary, full of grace. Our Lord is with thee…’

However, right when I got used to praying with the ‘Our Lord,’ I noticed that most sources list the prayer as:

'Hail Mary full of grace. The Lord is with thee…’

I know it’s an incredibly minute detail and really doesn’t change the intent of the prayer, but being a perfectionist I would like to know which is the “official way” to recite the prayer (Or if both ways are equally correct).

Thank you!!
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Chatter has it right,

Dominus tecum=…the Lord is with thee…
 
HelenRose said:
I love Mary - God’s special gift to all of us. I can imagine Her listening to this coversation and saying. “Children, children, children. Love my Son. Do what He tells you to do. That is what I want for you.”
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Does Mary, who is supposed to be happy in heaven, even understand English? 😉
 
ProVobis said:
Does Mary, who is supposed to be happy in heaven, even understand English? 😉
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As God wills it to be done Mary will understand us even more than our English words can express.

I often wonder about the relationship that men exprerience with Mary. I suppose each person has an unique relationship with her as a Mother.

For me she is a dear friend, sister, and mother on whose lap I can rest my head when life has been unkind to me and to those whom I love. I find great comfort resting in her love.

Her only power is Love and that power comes from the heart of Christ. That power transcends words and language.
 
HelenRose said:
As God wills it to be done Mary will understand us even more than our English words can express.

I often wonder about the relationship that men exprerience with Mary. I suppose each person has an unique relationship with her as a Mother.

For me she is a dear friend, sister, and mother on whose lap I can rest my head when life has been unkind to me and to those whom I love. I find great comfort resting in her love.

Her only power is Love and that power comes from the heart of Christ. That power transcends words and language.
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Beautifully said. I find myself looking to Mary as a mother, a dear friend, to whom I can confide, who can comfort me with her love and lead the way to my salvation, her Son. Her power indeed is love, and it comes from the overflowing love of the Lord.
 
ProVobis said:
Well, in that case, does it matter what the exact words are or should be?

Just a thought.
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No, not really. But… There are so many great works of art, poetry, prayers and music. I can’t understand the mentality of anyone who believes that they can actually improved upon them.

When something is so beautiful and so perfect as the “Hail Mary” why even try. It is a jewel in its perfection. A word here a word there what difference does it make? I’ll tell you.

Take the ancient melody “Greenselves” there are many variations on the theme but if you take one note out or do not play one of the accidentals its beauty is decreased. Just try singing “What Child is This”. Raise one or two of the notes and the exquisite beauty is diminished. A note here a note there yep … makes a big difference.
 
Laudate_Dominum said:
Bishop Challoner translated the Ave as Hail Mary, full of grace, our Lord is with thee. And have you seen the Pater? There a variations of these and any combination of the two: …]as we forgive them/those who/that trespass against us.
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Was it Bishop Challoner or Henry VIII who mandated his English translation of Pater Noster, Ave Maria, and Gloria Patri were to be learned by everyone in England?

books.google.com/books?id=Up_vo0S_S1wC&pg=PA59&lpg=PA59&dq=henry+VIII+translation+of+Pater+noster+Ave+Maria&source=bl&ots=1lKD0m6Vvl&sig=raHV2lSbJg1AFlWPKb3xXDvEj8Q&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_kjeUIGRLYHsqgGP4oHAAw&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=henry%20VIII%20translation%20of%20Pater%20noster%20Ave%20Maria&f=false
 
ProVobis said:
Was it Bishop Challoner or Henry VIII who mandated his English translation of Pater Noster, Ave Maria, and Gloria Patri were to be learned by everyone in England?

books.google.com/books?id=Up_vo0S_S1wC&pg=PA59&lpg=PA59&dq=henry+VIII+translation+of+Pater+noster+Ave+Maria&source=bl&ots=1lKD0m6Vvl&sig=raHV2lSbJg1AFlWPKb3xXDvEj8Q&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_kjeUIGRLYHsqgGP4oHAAw&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=henry%20VIII%20translation%20of%20Pater%20noster%20Ave%20Maria&f=false
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Oh wow, how interesting! 🙂 I wasn’t aware that it was Henry VIII that introduced the vernacular. But… now all the references to pre-Reformation Catholics saying their Paternoster beads suddenly make a world of sense! 😛

Hmm… no more vernacular rosaries for me. I’m no Anglican!😃
 
Laudate_Dominum said:
Oh wow, how interesting! 🙂 I wasn’t aware that it was Henry VIII that introduced the vernacular. But… now all the references to pre-Reformation Catholics saying their Paternoster beads suddenly make a world of sense! 😛

Hmm… no more vernacular rosaries for me. I’m no Anglican!😃
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Yes, it seems we adopted a lot from the Anglicans. And the translations to this day are rather curious. For example, “Sursum corda.” Now how many first year Latin students would translate that as “Lift up your hearts”? Or how about “per omnia saecula saeculorum”? How did they come up with “world without end”? But these are so ingrained in Anglosphere that we just call them traditional translations and case closed. Personally I’ll stick with the Latin; it’s more Catholic.
 
HelenRose said:
No, not really. But… There are so many great works of art, poetry, prayers and music. I can’t understand the mentality of anyone who believes that they can actually improved upon them.

When something is so beautiful and so perfect as the “Hail Mary” why even try. It is a jewel in its perfection. A word here a word there what difference does it make? I’ll tell you.

Take the ancient melody “Greenselves” there are many variations on the theme but if you take one note out or do not play one of the accidentals its beauty is decreased. Just try singing “What Child is This”. Raise one or two of the notes and the exquisite beauty is diminished. A note here a note there yep … makes a big difference.
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Helen,

I believe that getting so technical with our intentions may obviate the obvious. We are praying. Paul says that even our groans are heard as prayer as we don’t know how to pray as we ought…
26In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; 27and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
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A young man saying

One Nation under God for Richard Stands…not knowing any better is understood to say

One Nation under God for which it stands…

Would you criticize

Hail dat Mary Full uh grace De lo’d be wid dee 🤷
 
Alloy1 said:
The Hail Mary has been revised since when I was a child., I am school and liked the old missal and the original Hail Mary.
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Really :confused: - I’ve been saying the same Hail Mary for the past 52 years, as has everyone else, schools, churches, parishes etc.
 
ProVobis said:
Yes, it seems we adopted a lot from the Anglicans. And the translations to this day are rather curious. For example, “Sursum corda.” Now how many first year Latin students would translate that as “Lift up your hearts”? Or how about “per omnia saecula saeculorum”? How did they come up with “world without end”? But these are so ingrained in Anglosphere that we just call them traditional translations and case closed. Personally I’ll stick with the Latin; it’s more Catholic.
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I have to agree with you there. In my vocal prayers I’d rather say the same words repeated by countless saints from Warsaw to Lisbon. I’m slowly moving all of my vocal prayers into Latin now with pride of place being the Divine Office (I’m currently saying the Monastic Diurnal using English as a crutch for the rubrics until such time as I can purchase the all Latin Roman Diurnal).

It’s just a shame my Latin is very weak!
 
triumphguy said:
Or even Latin?

She might have spoken some Greek - maybe we should say it in Greek?😃

Or Aramaic.👍
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Well, I don’t want to attract too much attention when responding to the Leonine Prayers. I irritate enough when responding in Latin. 🙂
 
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