Hail Mary

[happilycatholic]

In applying sola scriptura to devotion to Mary:

Well I look at it this way. Satan knows what’s in the Bible, but does he follow in the footsteps of Christ?

I believe that God’s message is more profound than a book. God’s message is Christ and the catholic faith mirrors Christ’s life. That is why I chose to become catholic.

Further I don’t for one second believe that God’s power is trapped in the pages of the Bible. It is living and breathing and growing every minute of every day.

The Eucharist reminds me of this every time I receive. Our salvation is not in a book but in the life, death and resurrection of Christ. I can’t imagine He went through the Passion so that we could blindly be led by those who would tell us that the Bible is all we have to go on.

My catholic faith allows me to practice Christ’s teachings in every facet of my life. The sacraments let us bring Christ into every thing we do, not just by words, but by actual practice of the faith. I get to be in communion with my fellow christians every single mass and know that all around the world we are celebrating Christ’s presence with us, right there in the room!

That is why I know that it is right to be catholic. We are practicing what Christ told us to, the way He told us to.

Okay, I had a moment.

 

[justasking4]

happilycatholic;4325111]
Originally Posted by justasking4
This is the kind of ground catholics do need to tread. It is a serious matter to claim that Mary is supposedly the spouse of the HS when in fact the Scriptures never ever make such claim.

happilycatholic
Respectfully…

blah, blah, blah catholics need to blah, blah, blah.

What, read the scriptures that were written by catholics placed in the Bible by catholics and safeguarded for generations by catholics?

Done. Now what’s your point.

Huh? Are saying that the OT prophets were catholics???

Do any of the NT writers refer to themselves as catholics? What were the 1st followers of Jesus called?

My point is that since you reject the authority of Scriptures you must embrace the authority of the leaders of your church who can and have erred. The idea that Mary is referred to the spouse of the HS is not derived from the Scriptures nor the HS but from men.

 

[justasking4]

Originally Posted by justasking4
Faith in what? If there are no facts to support your faith then you have faith in the speculations of men.

happilycatholic
If there were facts to support faith, then there would be no faith, only knowlege. Which you seem to have an abundance of by the way.

Without knowledge you don’t have the kind of faith that Christ taught and wants His followers to have. How did Jesus go about proving that He was sent by God and had the power to forgive sins? Did He just ask and demand that people believe in Him just because He said so?

 

[justasking4]

I don’t know if this was already addressed but She IS more holy than all of the angels!!! That’s just a fact.

What is this “fact” based on?

 

[justasking4]

JustAsking is trying to reconcile Christ’s conception with human conception. No can do. It’s a Mystery.

Us catholics just take some things on faith.

Jesus did not just “appear” in Mary’s womb but she had a normal pregancy. It may be a mystery how the HS did this but we do know that she had a nomal pregancy as any other human pregnancy.

 

[justasking4]

Originally Posted by justasking4
It is a serious matter to claim that Mary is supposedly the spouse of the HS when in fact the Scriptures never ever make such claim.

Lampo
The Scriptures do not make a number of claims. That doesn’t mean the Truth cannot be somewhere outside of Scripture. See, you are boxed in with your false theology of sola scriptura. You are only getting a piece of the pie. Why not treat yourself to the entire pie?

i agree, lets treat ourselves to the fullness of the truth in Catholic church on this. Let’s go outside of Scripture since we know it never claims Mary is the spouse of the Spirit. When and by whom does this idea of spouse of the Spirit first appear in church history?

 

[guanophore]

I think you put your finger on what is the main problem with Marian doctrines .Instead of allowing the Scriptures to form doctrines, feelings and speculations are the factors that determine what Mary should look like and be for people. This was a problem for Israel in the OT. Instead of following the Word of God they followed their speculations about God and were rebuked by God for idolatry.
It is very harmful when you do not follow the Scriptures and allow speculations of men to determine what Mary is like and your relationship is to be with her. It was so harmful to Israel that God through the prophet Jeremiah rebuked those people who burned sacrifices to the queen of heaven and were punished by God for doing so. See Jeremiah 44:15-29

Gosh, ja4! I hope you are not thinking about making burnt offerings to the OT Queen of heaven!

 

[guanophore]

Where did the Lord Jesus give His mother as some kind of gift to the church and the apostles in their writings acknowledge this?

What specific teaching or letter did Mary write to the church for exhortation or encouragement?

Sorry, ja4. This is only available to those who are willing to receive it. She was not given to those who are not willing to stand at the foot of His cross, and to be HIs beloved disciple.

 

[justasking4]

Faith in Jesus Christ, who founded a Church and promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against it. Faith that when he breathed on His Apostles and promised them the Holy Spirit would guide them into all Truth, he wasn’t lying. Faith that the Holy Spirit has continued to guide those upon whom the Apostles laid their hands, and their successors for the last 2000 years.

i’m confused… Your giving me reasons for your faith and happilycatholic tells me—“If there were facts to support faith, then there would be no faith, only knowlege. Which you seem to have an abundance of by the way.” This is from post 317.

Which one should i believe?

 

[guanophore]

There is no problem with the Marian doctrines. More accurately, it is YOUR problem.

A very curious one too! Persistent and irresolute. One has to wonder what drives such a response.

Do you follow the Scriptures if you believe the writer of the Book of Luke is Luke?

Or better, does a person follow scripture if they believe the book of Matthew is written by Matthew!

 

[justasking4]

Originally Posted by justasking4
Where did the Lord Jesus give His mother as some kind of gift to the church and the apostles in their writings acknowledge this?

What specific teaching or letter did Mary write to the church for exhortation or encouragement?

guanophore;
Sorry, ja4. This is only available to those who are willing to receive it. She was not given to those who are not willing to stand at the foot of His cross, and to be HIs beloved disciple.

Again you fail me. If anyone would know it would be you but this answer is really a non-answer… :takeoff:

 

[justasking4]

Gosh, ja4! I hope you are not thinking about making burnt offerings to the OT Queen of heaven!

Are candles burned before statutes of Mary?

 

[guanophore]

Lets see if its your problem to.

You know, ja4, CAF is not a venue created for you to try to create problems for Catholics. We are aware that you have problems with Mary. You are entitled to reject all the gifts God gives you, including His own mother. However, it is not right for you to try to create problems for others who have accepted HIs gift.

Here are some titles from Titles of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
These are just a few titles given to her that supposedly reflect the truth about her:
Hope of Christians
Lady of Grace
Lady of Victory
Mary, Queen of Angels
Mary, Queen of Peace
Mary, Star of the Sea
More Holy Than the Cherubim, the Seraphim, and the Entire Angelic Hosts
Our Lady, Gate of Heaven
Paradise Fenced Against the Serpent
Star That Bore the Sea
Suppliant for Sinners
Surpassing the Seraphim
Wedded to God

Didn’t I just read a post from you yesterday saying that it is not right to use these titles? Why are you using them? Do you realize that, if a person knows what is right for them to do , and does not do it, for him it is a sin? Why would you bring this sin upon yourself, doing something you know is wrong for you?

The Scriptures is the only place that tells anything about Mary. If you know the Scriptures you will know that not one of these titles is ever applied to her not even hinted at.

Well, we read it differently.
justasking4;4324215:

If the Scriptures never say anything like this about her is right for the Catholic church to say such things about her especially when many of these and other titles would only apply to God Himself?

You may restrict yourself if you wish, ja4. God has given you free will, and if you do not wish to accept the Apostolic Traditions, you have that freedom. It is not your place to decide what the Catholic Church will teach, or not. That job belongs only to the Head of the Church, who is Christ. I am sorry if you thought there was a vacancy in the job. You were misinformed.

Did Luke use any of the titles for Mary above? Does exalt Mary the way the Catholic church has?

Luke was careful to parallel the journey of the Ark, and include the angelic salutation in all detail. He probably had more time with Mary because he was in Ephesus with Paul and had time to talk to her about her past.

The only other apostle that was with her longer was John, and it is from him that we have a view of her in the afterlife.

 

[justasking4]

guanophore;4325726]
Quote:
Originally Posted by justasking4
Here are some titles from Titles of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
These are just a few titles given to her that supposedly reflect the truth about her:
Hope of Christians
Lady of Grace
Lady of Victory
Mary, Queen of Angels
Mary, Queen of Peace
Mary, Star of the Sea
More Holy Than the Cherubim, the Seraphim, and the Entire Angelic Hosts
Our Lady, Gate of Heaven
Paradise Fenced Against the Serpent
Star That Bore the Sea
Suppliant for Sinners
Surpassing the Seraphim
Wedded to God

guanophore
Didn’t I just read a post from you yesterday saying that it is not right to use these titles? Why are you using them?

Do you know what context means and how to apply to written texts? If you did you would not have made this statement.

Do you realize that, if a person knows what is right for them to do , and does not do it, for him it is a sin? Why would you bring this sin upon yourself, doing something you know is wrong for you?

Let me encourage to study the Scriptures in context. This statement is so far off the mark as to embarassing…

 

[guanophore]

Do you know what context means and how to apply to written texts? If you did you would not have made this statement.

Let me encourage to study the Scriptures in context. This statement is so far off the mark as to embarassing…

I don’t think I saved the post, but I can go back and look for it if you don’t remember. You clearly stated that it was wrong for anyone to use such titles. I pointed out that you are the only one on CAF that does this “horrible” behavior, and urged that, if you believed it was wrong, that you stop. Now it is the very next day,and I see you are committing the same “wrongful” act again! What is with that?

 

[happilycatholic]

Huh? Are saying that the OT prophets were catholics???

Do any of the NT writers refer to themselves as catholics? What were the 1st followers of Jesus called?

My point is that since you reject the authority of Scriptures you must embrace the authority of the leaders of your church who can and have erred. The idea that Mary is referred to the spouse of the HS is not derived from the Scriptures nor the HS but from men.

Of course I’m not saying that the authors of the OT were catholics. You do realize when Christianity came into being, right?

Are you trying to tell me that the Apostles that wrote the Gospels were not catholic? Did they not receive Holy Communion with our Lord? Did he not tell them to do this? Did they not accept their service to our Lord and commit themselves only unto Him and leave their earthly properties and familes to reside among the people? Did they not confess their sins to one another and tell others to do so. Did they not anoint the sick as our Priests do today?

Catholics are still doing today what Christ and His Apostles were doing 2000 years ago. Are you? No, you pick the ones you like and follow those and not even correctly. That would be too much of a sacrifice.

Did some other Matthew, Mark, Luke and John write the Gospels? Did Christ not hand over His Church to Peter…Saint Peter to carry on? Since you are your own interpreter of the scripture, what have you loosed on earth? Today, for the most part it’s been that the Blessed Virgin Mary is an unwed mother who had an extramarital affair with an angel and became an idol when catholics started asking her to pray for us.

I don’t intend to be confrontational but I am more than a little weary of your rantings about the Bible says this and doesn’t say that. You have knowledge of what’s written between the pages of the Bible you bought at the store printed by the company written on the inside of it as it is translated by men who decided to take the divinely inspired and infallible version and remove parts of it and change words in it. Good grief JustAsking how much more CAN you put your faith in man?

Don’t try to convince me that the first Christians weren’t catholic sweetie. The first catholics paved the way and us catholics haven’t let the candle burn out yet. We haven’t decided we don’t like the faith and changed it to suit our needs. We follow it just the way Christ told us to.

I never rejected the authority of the scriptures. I rejected the theory of sola scriptura. Two very different things.

 

[happilycatholic]

Huh? Are saying that the OT prophets were catholics???

Do any of the NT writers refer to themselves as catholics? What were the 1st followers of Jesus called?

My point is that since you reject the authority of Scriptures you must embrace the authority of the leaders of your church who can and have erred. The idea that Mary is referred to the spouse of the HS is not derived from the Scriptures nor the HS but from men.

Are candles burned before statutes of Mary?

Yes, each one is for a blessing. Your problem with that?

 

[Pixie_Dust]

i’m confused… Your giving me reasons for your faith and happilycatholic tells me—“If there were facts to support faith, then there would be no faith, only knowlege. Which you seem to have an abundance of by the way.” This is from post 317.

Which one should i believe?

Both. I have faith in Jesus Christ, as I said. I have faith that the Holy Spirit did inspire the writers of Sacred Scripture to write as they did, that tell me how Jesus called and then sent His Apostles, who laid hands on other men who were their successors. Since we have no original manuscripts, it’s not “fact” but faith that God preserved His Words through the centuries and the Bible that I have is accurate.

 

[happilycatholic]

i’m confused… Your giving me reasons for your faith and happilycatholic tells me—“If there were facts to support faith, then there would be no faith, only knowlege. Which you seem to have an abundance of by the way.” This is from post 317.

Which one should i believe?

Well, that one’s just fact. You don’t even need faith, just grey matter.

 

[adstrinity]

What is this “fact” based on?

Because humans in Heaven are higher than angels once they are alive with Christ.

i agree, lets treat ourselves to the fullness of the truth in Catholic church on this. Let’s go outside of Scripture since we know it never claims Mary is the spouse of the Spirit. When and by whom does this idea of spouse of the Spirit first appear in church history?

If you’d really care, you’d look it up and see where this is based. IF you really cared.