Halloween and Feast of All Saints/Souls Connection

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JamalChristophr

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It is not just a coincidence is it that Halloween and Feasts of All Souls and Saints are so closely connected on the calendar? Did the church do this intentionally? Do you think the notion of “ghosts” as we referrer to them in common culture is a mixture of fable, rare appearances of Holy Souls in Purgatory, and lastly, manifestations of unclean spirits we commonly call demons as Catholics? This question is more of an open-ended topic perhaps but there are indeed 2 particular questions I hope you might be able to answer. But more extraneous comments or digressions are not necessarily unwelcome here either. Thanks!
 
JamalChristophr said:
It is not just a coincidence is it that Halloween and Feasts of All Souls and Saints are so closely connected on the calendar? Did the church do this intentionally? Do you think the notion of “ghosts” as we referrer to them in common culture is a mixture of fable, rare appearances of Holy Souls in Purgatory, and lastly, manifestations of unclean spirits we commonly call demons as Catholics? This question is more of an open-ended topic perhaps but there are indeed 2 particular questions I hope you might be able to answer. But more extraneous comments or digressions are not necessarily unwelcome here either. Thanks!
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Halloween in itself is nothing more than All Hallow’s Eve or Even (e’en). Because All Saints Day is a Solemnity (formerly, 1st-class Feast), it has Evening Prayer I, or First Vespers. That’s all it is: the eve of All Saints (All Hallows).

The ghoulish stuff is secular and is not part of Halloween per se. We can participate by recapturing what Hallowe’en really is, by dressing up, for example, as saints or heroes of the faith.
 
I thought Halloween was connected to Samhain and Ireland and the Celts. hmmmm
 
Wikipedia states that in the 9th century, the Church moved the feast of All Saints to November 1. I guess I’m wondering if the Church did this to Christianize what was formerly a pagan holiday. I’m terrible at history actually, but this is something that the Church has done in the past in an effort to bring the Light of Christ more fully to various cultures. Does that make any sense?
 
JamalChristophr said:
Wikipedia states that in the 9th century, the Church moved the feast of All Saints to November 1. I guess I’m wondering if the Church did this to Christianize what was formerly a pagan holiday. I’m terrible at history actually, but this is something that the Church has done in the past in an effort to bring the Light of Christ more fully to various cultures. Does that make any sen

se?
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Wiki won’t open for me; does it day which date from which it was moved to Nov 1?
If not, I’m inclined to believe the pagan suppression / superimposition theory (like Christmas/Yule/Imbolc), which wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing.
 
We Catholics has All Saints Day and All Souls Day and the Eve before All Saints Day, Halloween, but that Halloween has NOTHING to do with today’s Halloween.

And on October 31, the Druids in Europe has their own occultic holidays.

And somehow all the holidays got messed up into one big 3 day exploration of the Divine Comedy, starting in Dante’s inferno, then Paradise, then Purgatory…

And Halloween itself is now not really Catholic OR occultic, but secular. (HOWEVER, you always see people that take either the Catholic roots or the occultic roots seriously…)

So there is my basic, probably incorrect, history.
 
JamalChristophr said:
It is not just a coincidence is it that Halloween and Feasts of All Souls and Saints are so closely connected on the calendar? Did the church do this intentionally? Do you think the notion of “ghosts” as we referrer to them in common culture is a mixture of fable, rare appearances of Holy Souls in Purgatory, and lastly, manifestations of unclean spirits we commonly call demons as Catholics? This question is more of an open-ended topic perhaps but there are indeed 2 particular questions I hope you might be able to answer. But more extraneous comments or digressions are not necessarily unwelcome here either. Thanks!
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Happy All Hallows Eve to you, JamalChristophr!🙂 I tend to believe that ghosts are some sort of mysterious human energy traces left in particular places. I know that’s vague as vague can be, but the entire phenomenon seems to me exactly that: something humans haven’t yet grown or evolved or scientifically advanced enough to fathom. I’ve become rather fond of a writer named Rupert Sheldrake and his musings on the subject. In my view, it’s one of the frontiers of Earthly weirdness and “out there” subjects which will one day be better understood. Of course, it’s embarrassing to speak this way because it comes across as very flaky and dumb, but I honestly believe that what is now considered paranormal phenomena will eventually be understood much better than it currently is. Even electricity was at one point considered totally ethereal and esoteric. I should also add that science never has and never will contradict God and Creation and Ultimate Reality, it’s just that in our primitive state it sort of seems that way. If humans really are evolving according to God’s plan, who knows where our species will one day find themselves? History seems to tell us that what is utterly mysterious and unfathomable gradually comes to be understood in the process of time.
 
Exiled_Child said:
Happy All Hallows Eve to you, JamalChristophr!🙂 I tend to believe that ghosts are some sort of mysterious human energy traces left in particular places. I know that’s vague as vague can be, but the entire phenomenon seems to me exactly that: something humans haven’t yet grown or evolved or scientifically advanced enough to fathom. I’ve become rather fond of a writer named Rupert Sheldrake and his musings on the subject. In my view, it’s one of the frontiers of Earthly weirdness and “out there” subjects which will one day be better understood. Of course, it’s embarrassing to speak this way because it comes across as very flaky and dumb, but I honestly believe that what is now considered paranormal phenomena will eventually be understood much better than it currently is. Even electricity was at one point considered totally ethereal and esoteric. I should also add that science never has and never will contradict God and Creation and Ultimate Reality, it’s just that in our primitive state it sort of seems that way. If humans really are evolving according to God’s plan, who knows where our species will one day find themselves? History seems to tell us that what is utterly mysterious and unfathomable gradually comes to be understood in the process of time.
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Hmm…a VERY interesting idea. I disagree. Not because I think you are wrong, but because I have an explaination. i think the ghosts are like this:
saint-mike.org/warfare/library/wp-content/docs/7ghosts.html
Demons, purgatory souls, souls still on earth, angels, souls from hell, souls from heaven, lots of stuff…
 
ialsop said:
We Catholics has All Saints Day and All Souls Day and the Eve before All Saints Day, Halloween, but that Halloween has NOTHING to do with today’s Halloween.

And on October 31, the Druids in Europe has their own occultic holidays.

And somehow all the holidays got messed up into one big 3 day exploration of the Divine Comedy, starting in Dante’s inferno, then Paradise, then Purgatory…

And Halloween itself is now not really Catholic OR occultic, but secular. (HOWEVER, you always see people that take either the Catholic roots or the occultic roots seriously…)

So there is my basic, probably incorrect, history.
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Happy Halloween, ialsop!👍 Yeah, I agree that todays holiday is just an amusing and fun secular holiday, but that’s okay with me. I always have fun on Halloween. And really, what’s wrong with fun, you know? I enjoy the festive atmosphere!🙂 Think of all the crazy, absurd rituals we perform on a daily basis. We walk into a grocery store and the cashier goes through the motions. “Hello. Paper or plastic? Have a nice day!” Really, it’s not so very different from bizarre rituals in Borneo where dudes dance and chant to make it rain! It’s just some weird, inexplicable manifestation of human oddity. I really enjoy it.😛
 
ialsop said:
Hmm…a VERY interesting idea. I disagree. Not because I think you are wrong, but because I have an explaination. i think the ghosts are like this:
saint-mike.org/warfare/library/wp-content/docs/7ghosts.html
Demons, purgatory souls, souls still on earth, angels, souls from hell, souls from heaven, lots of stuff…
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Thanks for that!🙂 I bookmarked it and I’m going to read it later. I dunno, I was just havin’ fun with some stream of consciousness musings… To be honest I’m in a really good mood right now, largely owing to the holiday. My neighbor’s son just ran and knocked on my door and made me laugh hysterically. He didn’t have a costume, so he took 250 feet of Reynolds Aluminum Wrap and wrapped it around his head into a mask. I wish you could have seen it, you would have died laughing!😃
 
Exiled_Child said:
Happy Halloween, ialsop!👍 Yeah, I agree that todays holiday is just an amusing and fun secular holiday, but that’s okay with me. I always have fun on Halloween. And really, what’s wrong with fun, you know? I enjoy the festive atmosphere!🙂 Think of all the crazy, absurd rituals we perform on a daily basis. We walk into a grocery store and the cashier goes through the motions. “Hello. Paper or plastic? Have a nice day!” Really, it’s not so very different from bizarre rituals in Borneo where dudes dance and chant to make it rain! It’s just some weird, inexplicable manifestation of human oddity. I really enjoy it.😛
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Weird. I agree. Personally, its not my favorite day, but it IS my favorite season. But thats cuz I just dont like the macarbe. But I DO like the festive, social atmosphere. I love the harvest atmosphere! I love the natural darkness, but not the artificial darkness. By that I mean I love being outside at seven in the morning when it is still dark, I like the fall, the harvest, the leaves falling ff the treas, the drop in temprature, the dry feel of it.I LOVE that! BUT I despise the human add on to it, the macarbe and skeletons, gouls, ect. And I LOVE the next two Catholic holidays!

Happy halloween!! 🙂
Stay safe, have fun!!! 👍
 
Exiled_Child said:
Thanks for that!🙂 I bookmarked it and I’m going to read it later. I dunno, I was just havin’ fun with some stream of consciousness musings… To be honest I’m in a really good mood right now, largely owing to the holiday. My neighbor’s son just ran and knocked on my door and made me laugh hysterically. He didn’t have a costume, so he took 250 feet of Reynolds Aluminum Wrap and wrapped it around his head into a mask. I wish you could have seen it, you would have died laughing!😃
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Hahaha! See, this is the fun festive spirit I really enjoy! 😃
 
Totally!🙂 Fall is the most gorgeous time of year!👍 I’m currently in a mood, as the old saying goes, so please forgive me my friend!
 
Well, I can’t confirm it yet, but it still seems to me that Pope Gregory III (731-741) set the date on November 1 intentionally because Samhain was celebrated on October 31 by the Irish. I might be wrong, and perhaps in the final analysis it does not matter, but this is indeed something that the Church has done in past times to evangelize man, to get him to see that the true Light is the Light of Christ.
 
All Saints’ Day (in the Roman Catholic Church officially the Solemnity of All Saints and also called All Hallows or Hallowmas), is celebrated on the first Sunday after Pentecost in Eastern Christianity in honor of all the saints.
 
JamalChristophr said:
Well, I can’t confirm it yet, but it still seems to me that Pope Gregory III (731-741) set the date on November 1 intentionally because Samhain was celebrated on October 31 by the Irish. I might be wrong, and perhaps in the final analysis it does not matter, but this is indeed something that the Church has done in past times to evangelize man, to get him to see that the true Light is the Light of Christ.
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Yes and unfortunately, it failed.
 
Don’t know if I’d go that far. The Catholic Church on Earth is not referred to as the Church Militant for nothing. There will forever be a battle here between light and darkness until Christ finally comes in Glory.

It seems the most important thing for us to do is to truly believe and live the doctrine of the Communion of the Saints as well as our belief concerning departed souls who are still in need of purgation.
 
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