Hallucinations?

[Faith1960]

I ran across something on Facebook that talked about how some believe Jesus didn’t rise but that it was mass hallucinations.

One thing said that the disciples drank and suggested that or drugs, which were available then, caused them to hallucinate.

Then I read that it’s unlikely that 500 people could hallucinate the same thing. Not impossible, but unlikely.

How do we know jesus rose and it wasn’t a mass hallucination?

I’d appreciate proof that 500 or even 12 wouldn’t be able to hallucinate the same thing at the same time.

Thanks.

 

[1ke]

I’d appreciate proof that 500 or even 12 wouldn’t be able to hallucinate the same thing at the same time

You’ve got it backwards.

It is incumbent upon the person asserting the proposition to prove the premise, not the other way around.

 

[Faith1960]

You’ve got it backwards.

It is incumbent upon the person asserting the proposition to prove the premise, not the other way around.

Never mind. I read about the hallucination theory in A Case for Christ and A Case for the Real Jesus. I have my answer.
Esteemed psychologist Gary Collins PhD says people can’t share hallucinations.

 

[Beryllos]

From time to time, people do hallucinogenic drugs together. Does it ever happen that they share a hallucination? Don’t know, haven’t been there or done that, but I tend to doubt it.

 

[Faith1960]

From time to time, people do hallucinogenic drugs together. Does it ever happen that they share a hallucination? Don’t know, haven’t been there or done that, but I tend to doubt it.

Anybody know?

 

[Faith1960]

From time to time, people do hallucinogenic drugs together. Does it ever happen that they share a hallucination? Don’t know, haven’t been there or done that, but I tend to doubt it.

Even if they did, 11 people wouldn’t, and over 500 wouldn’t, which is how many saw Jesus.

 

[Crusaderbear]

I ran across something on Facebook that talked about how some believe Jesus didn’t rise but that it was mass hallucinations.
One thing said that the disciples drank and suggested that or drugs, which were available then, caused them to hallucinate.
Then I read that it’s unlikely that 500 people could hallucinate the same thing. Not impossible, but unlikely.

How do we know jesus rose and it wasn’t a mass hallucination…

Thanks.

It’s called faith. You won’t find much of it on facebook…

 

[boomerang]

I ran across something on Facebook that talked about how some believe Jesus didn’t rise but that it was mass hallucinations.

I’d appreciate proof that 500 or even 12 wouldn’t be able to hallucinate the same thing at the same time.

Thanks.

The only thing you can prove from this is that some people will grasp at any flimsy straw, no matter how absurd, to avoid believing that Jesus is real, and that He rose from the dead. Two or more people sharing hallucinations is as likely to happen as two or more people having the same dream on the same night. Never heard of it - unless- the dream came from God.

 

[Faith1960]

The only thing you can prove from this is that some people will grasp at any flimsy straw, no matter how absurd, to avoid believing that Jesus is real, and that He rose from the dead. Two or more people sharing hallucinations is as likely to happen as two or more people having the same dream on the same night. Never heard of it - unless- the dream came from God.

I was reading about hallucinogenics and it said some people use and used them in religious rituals.

 

[Faith1960]

The only thing you can prove from this is that some people will grasp at any flimsy straw, no matter how absurd, to avoid believing that Jesus is real, and that He rose from the dead. Two or more people sharing hallucinations is as likely to happen as two or more people having the same dream on the same night. Never heard of it - unless- the dream came from God.

Anyone else know for sure? I cant find the answer when I Googled it.

 

[Kliska]

A Hallucination isn’t the same as a delusion. A hallucination is a sensory experience that fires areas of the brain as if the person is actually seeing/hearing/feeling/tasting/smelling that literal thing. A delusion is a false belief. People can share delusions, they can actually “share” hallucinations, or both. There are several problems with this “theory” when applied to the resurrection.

First, if it was mass hallucination, it would have been an easy thing for either the Romans or the Jewish leaders to present the actual body.

Second (and this applies to Paul and the rest who saw Him post-resurrection), a hallucination or delusion is a disorder. Disorders are bad because they lead to negative outcomes over time. The witnesses, Paul, etc… did not have a breakdown of self or of functioning, they had a healing and a change in the positive direction.

Third, the normal conditions of shared psychosis are not present at the time of the resurrection. Jesus was seen by many people in many different contexts. The people were not socially isolated, they were throughout Jerusalem.

 

[Faith1960]

A Hallucination isn’t the same as a delusion. A hallucination is a sensory experience that fires areas of the brain as if the person is actually seeing/hearing/feeling/tasting/smelling that literal thing. A delusion is a false belief. People can share delusions, they can actually “share” hallucinations, or both. There are several problems with this “theory” when applied to the resurrection.

First, if it was mass hallucination, it would have been an easy thing for either the Romans or the Jewish leaders to present the actual body.

Second (and this applies to Paul and the rest who saw Him post-resurrection), a hallucination or delusion is a disorder. Disorders are bad because they lead to negative outcomes over time. The witnesses, Paul, etc… did not have a breakdown of self or of functioning, they had a healing and a change in the positive direction.

Third, the normal conditions of shared psychosis are not present at the time of the resurrection. Jesus was seen by many people in many different contexts. The people were not socially isolated, they were throughout Jerusalem.

Thanks. What about drugs. Some religious groups have been known to do them.

 

[Faith1960]

A Hallucination isn’t the same as a delusion. A hallucination is a sensory experience that fires areas of the brain as if the person is actually seeing/hearing/feeling/tasting/smelling that literal thing. A delusion is a false belief. People can share delusions, they can actually “share” hallucinations, or both. There are several problems with this “theory” when applied to the resurrection.

First, if it was mass hallucination, it would have been an easy thing for either the Romans or the Jewish leaders to present the actual body.

What if it was well hidden by the apostles?

 

[Kliska]

Thanks. What about drugs. Some religious groups have been known to do them.

Drugs don’t tend to produce the same experience for each individual partaking in them, certainly not across hundreds of people over a span of time. Further, the direct context was the Resurrection which happened in a certain place at a certain time, and has a definite narrative. Multiple hundreds of people on drugs doesn’t fit the time, culture, or place, and still can’t explain the empty tomb, the lack of a body, nor the positive changes in the people that met the risen flesh and blood Jesus.

If the body was taken by the Apostles, then they were persecuted and the majority tortured to death for a known lie they concocted without a one of them recanting their story. In short, it doesn’t fit the facts as we know them, including the multiple eye witnesses to Him.

 

[TimothyH]

Christians can’t win.

***For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He has a demon'; the Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold, a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ Yet wisdom is justified by her deeds." *(Matthew 11:18-19)

We are either hallucinating from drugs and liquor, or hallucinating from fasting, or billions of people since the time of Christ have been brainwashed, or we are all fooled by space aliens posing as angels, or the whole thing was made up by a bunch of old white guys for power and riches…

Can’t win.

-Tim-

 

[Faith1960]

Drugs don’t tend to produce the same experience for each individual partaking in them, certainly not across hundreds of people over a span of time. Further, the direct context was the Resurrection which happened in a certain place at a certain time, and has a definite narrative. Multiple hundreds of people on drugs doesn’t fit the time, culture, or place, and still can’t explain the empty tomb, the lack of a body, nor the positive changes in the people that met the risen flesh and blood Jesus.

If the body was taken by the Apostles, then they were persecuted and the majority tortured to death for a known lie they concocted without a one of them recanting their story. In short, it doesn’t fit the facts as we know them, including the multiple eye witnesses to Him.

True. Thanks!

Even if they wee doing drugs that doesn’t explain how our 500 people saw the same thing, right?

 

[Tim_D]

What if it was well hidden by the apostles?

And what if you entire premise is nothing but nonsense?

Instead of questioning whether Jesus is/was real or if the Bible can contain errors, why don’t you put more effort into learning the faith instead of trying to debunk nonsensical claims?

 

[Faith1960]

And what if you entire premise is nothing but nonsense?

Instead of questioning whether Jesus is/was real or if the Bible can contain errors, why don’t you put more effort into learning the faith instead of trying to debunk nonsensical claims?

I’m having a,rough time. Please be charitable.

 

[pianistclare]

Stay off Facebook. It’s not a source for spirituality dear.
Join a quality Bible study group.

 

[Tim_D]

I’m having a,rough time. Please be charitable.

Pianistclare is absolutely right.

Stop wasting your time with Facebook and put effort into learning the faith. You can’t expect to grow in faith if your foundation consists of doubts as to whether Jesus is real of if the resurrection was just a hallucination.