Hand Clapping During Mass

[MrS]

I think all the comments here are honest… and need to be recognized as such.

So let me do it here where it is proper, and not wait till we are at Mass.:clapping:

 

[YinYangMom]

paramedicgirl:

How can you possibly interpret what I said about John Paul II in that context? Perhaps you need to re-read my post. Maybe it’s just late and you need to get some sleep

My apologies if I offended, that was not my intent.

You posted:

There is always someone wanting to give another person recognition for something, and they always do it publicly at the end of the Mass. Me, I hope for my thanks in heaven. Don’t ever single me out for a round of applause. I’m not into self-worship.

Which suggests the only reason people are recognized for something publicly is because they seek such attention, you then tell us not to single you out for any applause because you are not into self-worship - again, suggesting that any one who is recognized with applause is into himself to the extent of self-worship.

So, when JPII receieved such a warm, loving, long round of applause at his highly respected funeral service, if we were to apply your reasoning to that event, it would suggest he was seeking such attention and was into himself, which of course, as you know is far from the truth.

It concerned me that you translate recognition with applause as something sought after/demanded instead of given/received. I know I have never sought recognition or applause, yet at the beginning of the religious education year all RE teachers were called to the front of the church (not to the altar) for a blessing and it was followed by applause of appreciation from the congregation for the task we were about to take on. At the end of the year all ministry coordinators are also called to stand and receive the thanks and appreciation of the congregation for all we did during the year to help educate and evangelize our parish community. As a FOCCUS facilitator I again stood to be recognized.

I basically do as I’m told. When Father says, “Please stand”, I stand. He says his piece, the congregation applauses, as uncomfortable as that may be for me, I smile, then sit down. To not stand would be rude, but from your interpretation, by my standing I’d be intentionally seeking out attention worshiping myself for all I did for the church that year and that simply is not the case at all. Not for me, and I would venture not for anyone else in your parish.

 

[msproule]

It always makes me uncomfortable when applause breaks out at Mass. In almost every case, I do not participate.
If the focus of the Mass is in the proper place, this sort of thing is unnecessary and not even a consideration.

Here is an example of how messed up this can become:

Before the final blessing and dismissal, one local parish announces parishoner birthdays each Sunday (if there are any birthdays to announce), then sings “Happy Birthday”, and then breaks into applause.

As happy as I am for those who are being recognized, this is one of those situations in which I do not participate.

 

[maryj]

MrS:

I think all the comments here are honest… and need to be recognized as such.

So let me do it here where it is proper, and not wait till we are at Mass.:clapping:

What to do, what to think, it is obvious by this statement that nothing can be said. If a half dozen arch Bishops, a couple cardinals from Rome, 50 Bishops and Cardinal Ratzinger can’t make these people see, I guess nothing will. I shall still follow my Bishops lead. After all what would make the afore mentioned HUMANS know!!

 

[fix]

msproule:

It always makes me uncomfortable when applause breaks out at Mass. In almost every case, I do not participate.
If the focus of the Mass is in the proper place, this sort of thing is unnecessary and not even a consideration.

Here is an example of how messed up this can become:

Before the final blessing and dismissal, one local parish announces parishoner birthdays each Sunday (if there are any birthdays to announce), then sings “Happy Birthday”, and then breaks into applause.

As happy as I am for those who are being recognized, this is one of those situations in which I do not participate.

That seems to be a good example of why some are put off by clapping in the mass. It really seems out of place.

 

[msproule]

fix:

That seems to be a good example of why some are put off by clapping in the mass. It really seems out of place.

One further point (purely of a speculatory nature): I have not yet been to this parish on Christmas. Nevertheless, I doubt that the priest directs everybody to sing “Happy Birthday” to Jesus. Then again, maybe they do. I guess I would not be surprised either way.

Michael

 

[Marilena]

Our Church Deacon announced last week in Church that it was
Father’s birthday, and the entire Church sung happy birthday
to him, and hand clapped for quite a bit. I didn’t know what to
think of that! I was surprised to say the least! Iam there to
worship Christ, and not to hand clap and so on. My husband
looked out of sorts. I think it was just a big surprise, and we
stood there wondering whether or not we should participate.
Does that make me an idiot for thinking this way?

 

[Orionthehunter]

fix:

That seems to be a good example of why some are put off by clapping in the mass. It really seems out of place.

Over the past few weeks, there have been threads that discuss the abuses of Priests in the Mass, abuses by EMHC’s, abuses of lay ministers, abuse of the Sign of Peace, abuse of clapping at the conclusion of Mass, abuse of general absolution of sins, abuse of music in the Mass, abuse of Eucharistic Adoration, etc. And there is a group who consistently advocate that the answer is abolition.

Why isn’t the call for better catechesis and respect for the prudential judgment of our good Priests and Bishops? God gave us a gift called reason and a desire for knowledge.

 

[YinYangMom]

Marilena:

Our Church Deacon announced last week in Church that it was
Father’s birthday, and the entire Church sung happy birthday
to him, and hand clapped for quite a bit. I didn’t know what to
think of that! I was surprised to say the least! Iam there to
worship Christ, and not to hand clap and so on. My husband
looked out of sorts. I think it was just a big surprise, and we
stood there wondering whether or not we should participate.
Does that make me an idiot for thinking this way?

Ooh…yeah the birthday thing seems a bit going to far.
I remember for our pastor’s birthday there was a sign outside the church (both entrances) with balloons inviting everyone to the hall after mass to wish Father a happy birthday. Nothing was done in mass.

It would seem that would be a better option for msproule’s parish, perhaps it could be suggested to the pastor there to post a sign at the entrance of the church listing the names he was going to read during mass anyway - they get the acknowledgement and there’s no more Happy Birthday singing at the end of mass.

However, since they are doing it at the end there really is nothing technically wrong with the practice. I, too, however, find it a bit ‘much’, especially if it happens every Sunday.

 

[buffalo]

YinYangMom:

Ok, so even taking that…

is it solely human achievement that a couple remain happily married for 50 years - or isn’t God a huge part of that?

Why not offer a prayer of thanksgiving then, rather than clapping? It would be more appropriate. What I have seen is that the Priest asks the people to raise their right hand over the couple, and all pray together.

 

[buffalo]

maryj:

Could you please tell me where this statement can be found? My thought is this…this statement was made by CARDINAL Ratzinger not Pope Benedict correct?? And I know they are the same person and yet he was not pope when this statement was written??? So it is an opinion of a Cardinal not an infallible Pope. Just a question.

The Spirit of the Liturgy, by Cardinal Ratzinger p.198 - He was Cardinal when written. However, if you look at what other Cardinals are saying in this seems to be the “mind of the church”.

 

[paramedicgirl]

MrS:

I think all the comments here are honest… and need to be recognized as such.

So let me do it here where it is proper, and not wait till we are at Mass.:clapping:

MrS - I always laugh when I read your posts!

 

[Marilena]

Frank and I were just surprised is all. I kind of felt like it was not
the appropriate place to sing happy birthday. Is that not for a
hall or something? But to do it in Church? We never said
anything, and we wont. One thing also bugged me, and it
kind of still does, but I haven’t said anything and I wont. Father
was giving his talk to the congregation one day a few months
back. He brought up how his back hurt. And he showed the
congregation a pamphlett about a special type of bed at one
of his therapists offices. He was telling the congregation that
if their back hurt, they should pick up a copy of the brochure
after Mass ( it still sits there on the desk near the door way )
it was like he was advertising for the bed in Mass! It was I felt,
not the appropriate place to discuss how you can get relief
from your back pain. I thought we were there to worship
Jesus, and not to find out about how we can get relief for
our backpain at this place where he goes. I shook my head
after Church at home, and so did my husband. Maybe we
are to traditional? Does this form of promotion belong in the
Church during Holy Mass? I tend to think not?

 

[buffalo]

No takers by the naysayers?

This very mass - a solemn funeral one, no less, led by Cardinal Ratzinger, with all the cardinals present and many dignitaries, was allowed to have a long “respectful” round of applause (and chanting, mind you) for gasp the “human achievements” of John Paul the II . And it wasn’t before the closing, either. It was between the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist. Even the cardinals were applauding (respectfully, of course).

Thus, a prime example of why taking the Cardinal’s words regarding a separate matter out of context to suggest a more universal application is erroneous.

Now this ia taken again from the dance peice, but note what he says about JPII. I think this may apply also to other extraordinary things.

**Cardinal Responds to Questions on Liturgy

** Somebody can say, “but the pope visited this county and the people danced”. A moment: Did the pope arrange it? Poor Holy Father – he comes, the people arranged. He does not know what they arranged. And somebody introduces something funny – is the pope responsible for that? Does that mean it is now approved? **Did they put in on the table of the Congregation for Divine Worship? **We would throw it out! If people want to dance, they know where to go.

 

[paramedicgirl]

YinYangMom:

My apologies if I offended, that was not my intent.

You posted:

Which suggests the only reason people are recognized for something publicly is because they seek such attention, you then tell us not to single you out for any applause because you are not into self-worship - again, suggesting that any one who is recognized with applause is into himself to the extent of self-worship.

So, when JPII receieved such a warm, loving, long round of applause at his highly respected funeral service, if we were to apply your reasoning to that event, it would suggest he was seeking such attention and was into himself, which of course, as you know is far from the truth.

It concerned me that you translate recognition with applause as something sought after/demanded instead of given/received. I know I have never sought recognition or applause, yet at the beginning of the religious education year all RE teachers were called to the front of the church (not to the altar) for a blessing and it was followed by applause of appreciation from the congregation for the task we were about to take on. At the end of the year all ministry coordinators are also called to stand and receive the thanks and appreciation of the congregation for all we did during the year to help educate and evangelize our parish community. As a FOCCUS facilitator I again stood to be recognized.

I basically do as I’m told. When Father says, “Please stand”, I stand. He says his piece, the congregation applauses, as uncomfortable as that may be for me, I smile, then sit down. To not stand would be rude, but from your interpretation, by my standing I’d be intentionally seeking out attention worshiping myself for all I did for the church that year and that simply is not the case at all. Not for me, and I would venture not for anyone else in your parish.

What I actually posted about John Paul II was this:

paramedicgirl:

I didn’t get the opportunity to watch that, but did Cardinal Ratzinger call for the round of applause, or was it initiated by the public? John Paul II was an extraordinary pope, so I could see this happening at* his* funeral Mass. That doesn’t mean it should be done at every Mass, though.

Which means you are taking what I say out of context to change my meaning. As you can see by my above* proper * quote, I think his was an extraordinary situation that does not apply to others. How can you possibly miss my meaning?

In regards to CCD, I also teach it, and we also do the “honours thing.” I just go to a different Mass so I don’t have to stand up there in front of the parish and take a bow. I have asked the priest to place that little reception in the parish hall where it belongs. This year we are all homeschooling, so there is no issue.

 

[buffalo]

YinYangMom:

Ooh…yeah the birthday thing seems a bit going to far.
I remember for our pastor’s birthday there was a sign outside the church (both entrances) with balloons inviting everyone to the hall after mass to wish Father a happy birthday. Nothing was done in mass.

It would seem that would be a better option for msproule’s parish, perhaps it could be suggested to the pastor there to post a sign at the entrance of the church listing the names he was going to read during mass anyway - they get the acknowledgement and there’s no more Happy Birthday singing at the end of mass.

However, since they are doing it at the end there really is nothing technically wrong with the practice. I, too, however, find it a bit ‘much’, especially if it happens every Sunday.

Or how about our Pastor leading the congregation at the final song - singing about God having the “Buffalo Bills in His Hands” - to help them win the game.

 

[Orionthehunter]

paramedicgirl:

In regards to CCD, I also teach it, and we also do the “honours thing.” I just go to a different Mass so I don’t have to stand up there in front of the parish and take a bow. I have asked the priest to place that little reception in the parish hall where it belongs. This year we are all homeschooling, so there is no issue.

Please tell me this isn’t true. Your scrupulousness is such that you’d deny yourself the blessing from your Priest (and parish family) on your endeavor to be a catechist of the parish’s children? And you think that the blessing for somethign that is so important to the parish should be done in the parish hall?

 

[fix]

Orionthehunter:

Over the past few weeks, there have been threads that discuss the abuses of Priests in the Mass, abuses by EMHC’s, abuses of lay ministers, abuse of the Sign of Peace, abuse of clapping at the conclusion of Mass, abuse of general absolution of sins, abuse of music in the Mass, abuse of Eucharistic Adoration, etc. And there is a group who consistently advocate that the answer is abolition.

Why isn’t the call for better catechesis and respect for the prudential judgment of our good Priests and Bishops? God gave us a gift called reason and a desire for knowledge.

You might want to direct that to the bishops and priests?

 

[fix]

Orionthehunter:

Please tell me this isn’t true. Your scrupulousness is such that you’d deny yourself the blessing from your Priest (and parish family) on your endeavor to be a catechist of the parish’s children? And you think that the blessing for somethign that is so important to the parish should be done in the parish hall?

The blessing seems fine, but why the clapping?

 

[Marilena]

Orionthehunter:

Please tell me this isn’t true. Your scrupulousness is such that you’d deny yourself the blessing from your Priest (and parish family) on your endeavor to be a catechist of the parish’s children? And you think that the blessing for somethign that is so important to the parish should be done in the parish hall?

What would you say to me feeling out of sorts with the
birthday singing to Father, hand clapping ext? does that
not belong in a hall?