Hand Clapping During Mass

[MariaG]

Interesting.

A question though touched on by a few others but not really discussed.

For the most part what is being discussed is clapping for basically good works. Since those works were done through the Grace of God, why should God not be praised through clapping as it is as others stated, a form of appreciation.

I know when I clap, it is clapping for the person, but mostly it is in appreciation of seeing God’s work through that person.

Example, last weekend, one of our youth got up and thanked the parish (small) for sending 6 youth to the National Catholic Youth Conference. This youth was choked with emotion as he tried to share the moving of the Holy Spirit that week and since. Applause was a natural response to seeing this movement of the Holy Spirit.

Just my :twocents:

 

[Orionthehunter]

fix:

The blessing seems fine, but why the clapping?

Clapping is an American means to communicate appreciation, support and comfort.

I also personally don’t see anything wrong w/ a congregation expressing appreciation to their Pastor by singing Happy Birthday and clapping afterwards. I also recall a time that our Pastor announced that today was the anniversary of our Associate’s ordination. We all clapped afterwards to express appreciation. Another time we clap after Mass is when our seminarian returns home to be with his family. He always serves every Mass over the weekend so we all get to see him. Father always asks if he wants to say somethign to the parish, he always declines and then we give him applause in appreciation and to let him know that we are confident that he is going to be a great Priest.

It is obvious that there are differences among us. I for one think that a parish that never celebrated as a congregation special events prior to the final blessing would be one that would not be percieved as very welcoming or joyous place. If you have ever taught or been involved in RCIA classes, you’d know that one of the major barriers for these people is their perception that the Catholic worship is cold and dead. I suspect that is also why we lose some people to other religions. While we know it is alive, to them it sure doesn’t look like it. Is a little joy at the end of Mass really that detrimental? If I were to tell the five most devout people I know in my parish that I advocated what has been advocated on this thread, they’d tell me to get a grip, loosen up enjoy life and then say I was too young to be such a curmudgeon.

I find it hard to believe that people would be so reluctant to congratulate 1st Communicants, newly confirmed, people celebrating a milestone anniversary, their Pastor’s ordination anniversary with a polite round of applause before the final blessing.

The do it in the parish hall runs hollow to me. First, we don’t have a parish hall, we don’t have parking for people to stay around after Mass becuase of the needs of the next Mass, etc. Second, we are a faith community expressing appreciation in the context of the Mass. The reception for the 1st Communicants after Mass is for family and friends. We don’t have the facilities to accommodate the entire congregation. Plus if we could accommodate everyone, the crowd in that situation probably means less than just family and friends to the little Holy ones.

I belong to a Parish that is alive with the Holy Spirit. Our pews are full, our ministries are effective, our RCIA class is full every year, we are getting vocations, and I’ll bet there aren’t 20 parishioners who have a criticism of our Priest (from the most traditional to the most contemporary.). Our kids love him because he doesn’t hesitate to let people see his sense of humor (even in Mass God forbid). The “church ladies” who go to daily Mass etc. love him because he is so darn pastoral to the aged and sick and suffering. People of my age group love him because he is one of us. But most of all, as a parish, we recognize that our Pastor gives us the sacraments and for that we are most grateful.

 

[paramedicgirl]

Orionthehunter:

Please tell me this isn’t true. Your scrupulousness is such that you’d deny yourself the blessing from your Priest (and parish family) on your endeavor to be a catechist of the parish’s children? And you think that the blessing for somethign that is so important to the parish should be done in the parish hall?

It has nothing to do with scrupulosity. It is not done as a blessing by the priest. It is done at the year end as an acknowledgement and thank you. That is why I said it belongs in the parish hall. They even present the CCD teachers with thank you gifts in the Mass. I’ll bypass this, thanks.

 

[paramedicgirl]

MariaG:

Interesting.

A question though touched on by a few others but not really discussed.

For the most part what is being discussed is clapping for basically good works. Since those works were done through the Grace of God, why should God not be praised through clapping as it is as others stated, a form of appreciation.

I know when I clap, it is clapping for the person, but mostly it is in appreciation of seeing God’s work through that person.

Example, last weekend, one of our youth got up and thanked the parish (small) for sending 6 youth to the National Catholic Youth Conference. This youth was choked with emotion as he tried to share the moving of the Holy Spirit that week and since. Applause was a natural response to seeing this movement of the Holy Spirit.

Just my :twocents:

This is exactly what we have been discussing. Some of us believe that it belongs in the parish hall and others like it to happen at Mass. The Mass, in my opinion, should remain sacred and reverent, and all this hand clapping nonsense detracts from its real purpose, and puts the focus on the people instead of on Jesus. There’s my :twocents:

 

[Marilena]

May I ask Tradtional Catholic’s here the same question?
Was hand clapping part of the Tridentene Mass? Is it
practiced at an approved Latin Mass? Have any who
attended either the Tridentene Mass, or an approved Latin
Mass ever hand clapped?

 

[Marilena]

paramedicgirl:

This is exactly what we have been discussing. Some of us believe that it belongs in the parish hall and others like it to happen at Mass. The Mass, in my opinion, should remain sacred and reverent, and all this hand clapping nonsense detracts from its real purpose, and puts the focus on the people instead of on Jesus. There’s my :twocents:

I agree with you 100% !

 

[fix]

Orionthehunter:

If you have ever taught or been involved in RCIA classes, you’d know that one of the major barriers for these people is their perception that the Catholic worship is cold and dead. I suspect that is also why we lose some people to other religions. While we know it is alive, to them it sure doesn’t look like it.

That is my point as well. Many mistakenly “feel” it is dead due to poor catechesis and the result is to “liven” it up through sentimentalism and gushy emotionalism, rather than holiness, true joy and awe.

We go overboard to seem friendly in silly ways, rather than embrace the mass as the Church intends. We certainly can be welcoming and hospitalble without turning the mass into entertainment.

 

[paramedicgirl]

fix:

That is my point as well. Many mistakenly “feel” it is dead due to poor catechesis and the result is to “liven” it up through sentimentalism and gushy emotionalism, rather than holiness, true joy and awe.

We go overboard to seem friendly in silly ways, rather than embrace the mass as the Church intends. We certainly can be welcoming and hospitalble without turning the mass into entertainment.

Well said, fix!

 

[fix]

paramedicgirl:

Well said, fix!

As I said in another thread these “minor” issues are seen as important to folks because of a perceived lack of faithfulness in many central areas of the faith of much of the laity and clergy.

If we had a culture that was very observant of Church teachings, or publicly loyal and authentically submissive to the authority of Rome, all these less important issues would not generate so much attention.

They see little correction of error, many openly dissenting or at least disregarding the authority of the Church, then they see the mass as an experiment that is available to be molded on the personal whim of many, finally clapping, hand holding, etc are viewed as symptoms of a greater problem. Just my opinion.

 

[Marilena]

fix:

As I said in another thread these “minor” issues are seen as important to folks because of a perceived lack of faithfulness in many central areas of the faith of much of the laity and clergy.

If we had a culture that was very observant of Church teachings, or publicly loyal and authentically submissive to the authority of Rome, all these less important issues would not generate so much attention.

They see little correction of error, many openly dissenting or at least disregarding the authority of the Church, then they see the mass as an experiment that is available to be molded on the personal whim of many, finally clapping, hand holding, etc are viewed as symptoms of a greater problem. Just my opinion.

 

[Breton]

Fundamentally it comes down to why you are at Mass. Catholics are at Mass to worship and adore God not each other.

I agree with this except that you assume to know what is in the “hearts of men” when you conclude that clapping equates with adoration of each other to the exclusion of God. Clapping, like singing, painting, sculpture is a form of communication. I agree that when we clap in mass, we are giving praise to the work of God through his creation. I think this issue is more about individual preferences of decorum than effrontery to God. The mass is not a time for personal prayer; it is a time for communion.

I’ll admit, I don’t much care for clapping in church because the practice can be abused, the correct intent lost. But do we want to swing to the opposite extreme: sew up the veil and hide our human frailties behind it so as not to upset our merciful God? Or do we want to worship God - who sees all anyway - warts and all? Should we hide the priest, lectors, EMHC’s, et al behind a curtain of anonymity so that we are not distracted by facial expressions, personal mannerisms, dress, etc…. Maybe we should regulate the tone and inflection of their voices. Better yet, let’s prerecord the mass, edit it for ‘mistakes’ and then project it to the congregation. And all those statues of our Heavenly Mother and the saints – get’em out of there in case they become a distraction or, worse yet, lead someone into idolatry. While we’re at it, let’s remove anyone that exhibits too much piety; wouldn’t want them to become a distraction either.

Everything we do everyday, including at mass, should point to God. I think clapping can be a part of this expression.

 

[Prometheum_x]

Can’t really say much about *applause, *but at the very least, I think it should be reserved for rare occasions. I am a church musician, and I consider myself to have done my job well if the music becomes such an aid to worship that people forget to pay specific attention to the music. Thus, while I am thankful for whatever appreciation is expressed to me after the fact, I strongly dislike applause upon completion of music in a liturgical setting.

As for rhythmic clapping in the context of music, unless there is some sort of incongruity between sacred music and strict meter, I cannot see the problem. Even chant has a pulse which is accented by syllable placement

 

[Orionthehunter]

Orionthehunter:

Paramedic, I totally understand your perspective on not wanting to get applause. I was raised and it is imbedded deep in me that praise can foster pride.

At the same time, I think there is something very Catholic (even though I don’t want to be the subject of it) in the singling out people for meritorious accomplishment done by the Grace of God. We are a Church that emphasizes the Communion of Saints and we look to the Saints in Heaven as great examples and venerate their lives as from God. But I see a disconnect if we ignore the Saints among us.

I just recalled an exprerience that I attended last Spring in our Cathedral- the ordination of Archbishop Thomas Edward Gullickson. He grew up in my city. The ordination was attended by a half dozen Archbishops, a couple of Cardinals from Rome, and about 50 Bishops. After the closing prayer, Archbishop Gullickson was given the opportunity to address the congregation. After he finished, he sat down in his chair in tears. Everyone including the Bishops, Archbishops and Cardinals stood up and gave Archbishop a heartfelt round of applause that lasted several minutes. The thought of the moment still brings tears to my eyes.

A friend of mine who works in the Diocese just emailed me this picture. Is this issue dead? Probably not.

Can you imagine the situation if everyone had just sat there and done nothing?

P.S. If you can’t see the picture, please PM me with directions on how to get it in my post.

 

[YinYangMom]

paramedicgirl:

I think his was an extraordinary situation that does not apply to others. How can you possibly miss my meaning?

And as I noted JPII never considered himself to be any better servant than someone like you therefore you are incorrect to suggest the applause at that occassion was extraordinary. It was not. It was an appropriate acknowledgement expressed by the congregation of the work completed by a servant of God.

Between the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist Cardinal Ratzinger did indeed allow applause, and the other cardinals also participated in the applause therefore if it is done there it can be done in our parishes.

It’s fine that you don’t like it.
It’s not fine to suggest the priest and bishop are in error for allowing it.

 

[YinYangMom]

buffalo:

Why not offer a prayer of thanksgiving then, rather than clapping? It would be more appropriate. What I have seen is that the Priest asks the people to raise their right hand over the couple, and all pray together.

Because it is the perogative of the Bishop/priest to determine the ‘appropriate’ means of expressing thanks, appreciation, whatever.
We are called to respect and obey not groan and moan

 

[YinYangMom]

paramedicgirl:

This is exactly what we have been discussing. Some of us believe that it belongs in the parish hall and others like it to happen at Mass. The Mass, in my opinion, should remain sacred and reverent, and all this hand clapping nonsense detracts from its real purpose, and puts the focus on the people instead of on Jesus. There’s my :twocents:

Except your opinion does not supercede the magesterium of the church. You believe it belongs in the hall and not in the church. Rome does not.

Who ya’ gonna’ choose?
Rome, for me.

Though, with all due respect, I do acknowledge your point is valid - in that it would be equally appropriate to acknowledge these type of things through some church reception, perhaps once a month. I think it’s great that you’ve made that suggestion to your pastor and continue to encourage it, but the final decision is respectfully his to make and he has the support of the Bishop and of Rome.

To rebuke an invitation from him to have your work be acknowledged at a mass intended for such an occasion is rude, disobedient and disrespectful. It shows, through your actions, that you believe yourself to be wiser and of a higher authority than your pastor, your bishop and Rome - whether you intend it to come across like that or not. It does. You are physically protesting/boycotting an invitation from your priest, what other way can your actions be interpreted?

I will, however, suggest your idea to our liturgy council at our next gathering even though our parish doesn’t applaud very often. It is at least worth their consideration since we’re trying to find ways to foster the spirit of Welcoming in the parish. I’m not promoting it because I disapprove of the recognition during mass but because I think it may help increase social mingling afterward. Knowing our pastor he’ll do both.

 

[paramedicgirl]

YinYangMom:

And as I noted JPII never considered himself to be any better servant than someone like you therefore you are incorrect to suggest the applause at that occassion was extraordinary. It was not. It was an appropriate acknowledgement expressed by the congregation of the work completed by a servant of God.

Between the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist Cardinal Ratzinger did indeed allow applause, and the other cardinals also participated in the applause therefore if it is done there it can be done in our parishes.

It’s fine that you don’t like it.
It’s not fine to suggest the priest and bishop are in error for allowing it.

I never said they were in error for allowing it. You must be doing more than reading between the lines to come up with that. I realize that we are at opposite ends of the spectrum, but please do not put words in my mouth.

 

[paramedicgirl]

YinYangMom:

To rebuke an invitation from him to have your work be acknowledged at a mass intended for such an occasion is rude, disobedient and disrespectful. It shows, through your actions, that you believe yourself to be wiser and of a higher authority than your pastor, your bishop and Rome - whether you intend it to come across like that or not. It does. You are physically protesting/boycotting an invitation from your priest, what other way can your actions be interpreted?

Actually, the invitation was from the coordinator of the CCD program. It was run by her and not priest, and the priest had nothing to do with the announcements and gift-giving that occured during Mass. It wasn’t a situation where there was a blessing from the priest. It was all to acknowledge the teachers. So please do not call me rude because I chose to go to the Saturday night Mass to avoid the gong show. I go to Mass to worship Jesus, not to be noticed.

 

[YinYangMom]

[paramedicgirl:

I never said they were in error for allowing it. You must be doing more than reading between the lines to come up with that.

paramedicgirl:

Do you feel as I do that** hand clapping has no place in the Mass**? Not only clapping to the beat of songs (that seems so Protestant to me!), but also applauding parishioners for whatever reason they are being exalted?

Why can’t we give all praise to Jesus at Mass? It is only one hour a week, and to remove the focus from Jesus to applaud a parishioner seems to detract from the reason we are there.

So you’re saying this does not mean you think the priests are wrong (in error) to allow clapping in Mass and that by doing so they are detracting from the reason of the Mass by removing the focus of the congregation off of Jesus?

 

[buffalo]

YinYangMom:

Except your opinion does not supercede the magesterium of the church. You believe it belongs in the hall and not in the church. Rome does not.

Who ya’ gonna’ choose?
Rome, for me.

.

Rome is working on this so it is not as cut and dried as your statment “Rome does not”. Forbidding clapping almost made it into RS. There have been many things that have gone on in Rome and outside that Rome is course correcting us to the true intentions of VII.