Hand Holding and Guitars at Mass?

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Just want to add my :twocents: ,
Many of these complaints (but not all) aren’t necessarily about liturgical abuses, just bad taste and liturgical “renewal” gone awry. I have attended masses all over the spectrum from guitar masses, to Tridentine masses, to mass with full orchestra performing the high masses of Mozart, Beethoven, and Haydn (St. Agnes in St. Paul MN in case you’re curious). I definitely have a preference for the indult mass and orchestral masses, but I realize that this is a *preference, *and that the nutty things people to make the mass more “up-to-date” and “relevant” doesn’t invalidate the mass, only make it that much harder to concentrate. I find ironic that in trying to “relevant”, many parishes play music that is either straight out of the 70’s or sounds like it is. I just take comfort that in 30 years, much of this eminantly forgettable music will be just that, forgotten. The Church has an unfortunate tendancy to go with what is thought to be the latest trend in music, only to be stuck with what is already yesterday’s news. As a graduate of music school, I find it ironic that with the greatest musical patrimony of any institution on the planet, stretching back over 1000 years, (gregorian chant, Palestrina, Byrd, Victoria, Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert, Bruckner, Dvorak, Gounod) that we are stuck with Hagen, Haas, and Joncas. Heck, even Bach, a non-Catholic, wrote a mass or two. Even my wife, who actually tends towards the charismatic end of things, is brought to tears by the beauty of a well-done indult mass. She likes being able to enter into contemplative prayer during mass without having some overamplified guitar boring some musical monstrosity into our skulls in the spirit of trying to encourage active participation.
BUT, like I said, it is a matter of preference.
 
As for holding hands, as a physician I would say that’s a great way to spread influenza. I also avoid the chalice during the flu season for the same reason.🤓
 
Katherine: I must apologize to you. I misunderstood your point about segregated parishes. I was thinking worship and not at all about schools. My grade school was desegregated in September of 1963 and my high school in 1966 (both were parochial schools). It was a big thing to the adults then but no big deal to the kids. My parents did not permit us to use the “n” word or to hate black people even though my family has been in Louisiana since the 1750s. Black Catholics have been so much a part of my life that I honestly didn’t remember.

Bless you for calling me a “child” at 53. I submit to your wisdom:) .

I really do believe, however, that the vast majority of Catholic parishes have lost a sense of the “sacred” in order to be “modern and attractive”.

Hrolf
 
INRI: St Agnes in St Paul. Wow! I have a couple of their recordings. I can’t imagine hearing a Haydn Mass with a full orchestra. We have done concerts with a medieval consort and the Haydn “Ode on St. Cecilia’s Day” and Bach “Magnificat” with chamber orchestra and, of course, the usual Christmas, Easter, diocesan events with brass quintet and tympani but to hear a Haydn Mass in all its glory? Wow!
 
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brotherhrolf:
Katherine: I must apologize to you. I misunderstood your point about segregated parishes.
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No problem. Would you do me one kind favor? Please say a prayer that God might honor His Church by the canonization of
**Pierre Toussaint, who the Church has declared a heroic Christian. **
Bless you for calling me a “child” at 53. I submit to your wisdom:) .
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Sweetheart, I have children your age. You are just getting started.
I really do believe, however, that the vast majority of Catholic parishes have lost a sense of the “sacred” in order to be “modern and attractive”.

Hrolf
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Well, we’ll have to do what we can to make things better.
 
Katherine: Is he Toussaint L’Ouverture?. If not please give me some info. Haiti or Louisiana?
 
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brotherhrolf:
INRI: St Agnes in St Paul. Wow! I have a couple of their recordings. I can’t imagine hearing a Haydn Mass with a full orchestra. We have done concerts with a medieval consort and the Haydn “Ode on St. Cecilia’s Day” and Bach “Magnificat” with chamber orchestra and, of course, the usual Christmas, Easter, diocesan events with brass quintet and tympani but to hear a Haydn Mass in all its glory? Wow!
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Those recordings you have were probably done live at an actual mass. It’s a unique parish. The orchestra consists of members of the Minnesota Orchestra (paid from an endowment). They put on full orchestral masses about 30 Sundays out of the year. The remaining Sundays, they use Gregorian chant. The website (needs to be updated badly) is www.stagnes.net. You can access online samples of their recordings off of that website. The music schedule is at the following link: stagnes.net/church/Music.do;jsessionid=F88F7D5F938870339D1F2BF8D4516B64?displayPage=schedule
Best mass of all is on their patronal feast of St. Agnes when they do the Gounod *St. Cecilia Mass. *They also break out their first class relic of St. Agnes on that day. Their associate pastor, Father Robert Altier has made at least one appearance that I know of on the Catholic Answers Radio Program. His daily homilies get posted every day in text and audio, accessable from the St. Agnes website. That one church also supplies about 20% of the vocations for the entire archdiocese. So, it’s a good parish. I miss it now that I’ve moved to the D.C. area.
 
The worst experience I ever had at a “Guitar” mass happened last year while attending a mass in Wisconsin (name withheld to protect the guilty). I was post-call and forced to attend a Sunday evening mass at 7:00pm (why do these things always seem to happen on Sunday evening masses?). Resident physicians like myself often have to work call nights where we start at 7:00am on one day and finish 1:00pm the next day (36 hrs straight). This was why I was unable to go to a morning mass. I should have known we were in trouble when what looked and sounded like a teenage garage band started warming up. But what was I supposed to do? There weren’t exactly a lot of options in the area by this time. The priest walks out, stands in front of the “altar” and proceeds to whip out a cell phone and have a “conversation” with God!! :bigyikes: During the mass, he proved quite creative with with the various different prayers of the mass, producing a few combinations I had never heard of before or since. At the end of the mass (subject of homily: being fishers of men) he bellows in a loud voice “The mass is ended, GOOOO FISSSSSHHH!!”:bigyikes:
The next time I found myself in that post call on a Sunday, I drove 2.5hrs to the Twin Cities to get an early evening mass instead. I don’t know whether to :rotfl: or :crying: .
 
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INRI:
The worst experience I ever had at a “Guitar” mass happened last year while attending a mass in Wisconsin (name withheld to protect the guilty). I was post-call and forced to attend a Sunday evening mass at 7:00pm (why do these things always seem to happen on Sunday evening masses?). Resident physicians like myself often have to work call nights where we start at 7:00am on one day and finish 1:00pm the next day (36 hrs straight). This was why I was unable to go to a morning mass. I should have known we were in trouble when what looked and sounded like a teenage garage band started warming up. But what was I supposed to do? There weren’t exactly a lot of options in the area by this time. The priest walks out, stands in front of the “altar” and proceeds to whip out a cell phone and have a “conversation” with God!! :bigyikes: During the mass, he proved quite creative with with the various different prayers of the mass, producing a few combinations I had never heard of before or since. At the end of the mass (subject of homily: being fishers of men) he bellows in a loud voice “The mass is ended, GOOOO FISSSSSHHH!!”:bigyikes:
The next time I found myself in that post call on a Sunday, I drove 2.5hrs to the Twin Cities to get an early evening mass instead. I don’t know whether to :rotfl: or :crying: .
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That is (sorry) funny! I know how you feel, believe me! Seriously, my husband and I have had enough. It is sad. I tried, I really tried, I didn’t want the kids to think that we were judging, but how can you not judge when you suffer so inside. Maybe that is the soul expressing itself.

Blessings,
Helen
 
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brotherhrolf:
INRI: St Agnes in St Paul. Wow! I have a couple of their recordings. I can’t imagine hearing a Haydn Mass with a full orchestra. We have done concerts with a medieval consort and the Haydn “Ode on St. Cecilia’s Day” and Bach “Magnificat” with chamber orchestra and, of course, the usual Christmas, Easter, diocesan events with brass quintet and tympani but to hear a Haydn Mass in all its glory? Wow!
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Now you just might be my kind of traditionalist.😉

If you want an example of a progressive parish you might be very content in, try Corpus Christi in Manhattan

varenne.tc.columbia.edu/corpus/
 
Not to get uncharitable here, but I just love this link off of +veritas+'s blog:
Society for a Moratorium on the Music of Marty Haugen and David Haas:
mgilleland.com/music/moratorium.htm
😃
Just before it +veritas+ also puts the following, which I thought appropriate:
**Top Ten Signs a Parish Has Been Using Oregon Catholic Press for Too Long **

(Substitute any of your favorite modern hymnals for the title 🙂

10. People call to ask what time Midnight Mass is “sending forth” (usually about 11 PM).
9. Epidemic of laryngitis following attempts to “sing a new church into being.”
8. Followers of Huub Osterhuis lobby to have flooring removed in favor of hard-packed dirt.
7. Bored parishioners count how many times the word “gather” is used per Mass.
6. Old “Glory & Praise” books thrown out for being too “conservative” and “exclusive.”
5. People discover that they get that same fuzzy feeling of community standing in Wal Mart.
4. Incense is re-introduced at Mass, but it’s patchouli.
3. Worn depressions in “D” keys and pedals on the organ.
2. What’s an organ?
1. The local Byzantine parish begins construction on the new church building.

Just Kills me:rotfl:
 
Kevin Walker:
How about a prayer for the canonization of Louis Day Hicks of South Boston, who stood fast against racist forced busing?
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Along with some of the dialogue about the Jews on the other thread, you are happliy confirming my views of conservatives. Scratch a conservative and you find a…
 
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katherine2:
Along with some of the dialogue about the Jews on the other thread, you are happliy confirming my views of conservatives. Scratch a conservative and you find a…
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Jews and Louise Day Hicks? What a beautiful example of a *non sequitur *you have provided. Thanks! Now could you kindly answer the question?
 
This thread sure is drifting off topic. Don’t force me to sing Kum Ba Yah again! (while we all hold hands, of course)
 
Dear fellow Catholic Christians:

I’ve tried several times to write a comment on the postings I’ve read in this thread. I can’t find words to express my heartache ❤️ over some of the truly nasty things 😦 some have had to say to and about others here. There have also been some unworthy snide comments about Protestants.

I am an adult convert to the Church. I have been to mass places where I loved the music and where I would prefer to eat stick deoderant in earwax sauce rather than endure the music (substitute homily, practice, your pet peeve). And yes it does make some difference…BUT all those things aside, what do we get at mass no matter how awful the music, homily, talking, holding hands, attitude of prayer, passing of the peace, etc??? THE REAL PRESENCE!!! That is the central reason I joined the Church. The Real Presence!!! No other Church has this. Do you realize how much you have, even if the other parts of the service are not to your liking? (and I, too, have things I don’t care for about the way the service is conducted at my parish).

Blessed be God the Father and Our Lord, Jesus Christ. How I thank God for the Real Presence Oh, my friends, value that gift!!!

deborah1313
 
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deborah1313:
Blessed be God the Father and Our Lord, Jesus Christ. How I thank God for the Real Presence Oh, my friends, value that gift!!!

deborah1313
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:clapping: Nice post for your second post. Welcome and keep it coming.
 
Dear Deborah: I understand your plea about the real presence of Our Lord. Given that, a mariachi Mass which is dignified and conscious of that Presence is OK. A polka Mass which is dignified and conscious of that Presence is OK…any other ethnic or non-ethnic variety of Mass which is conscious of that Presence is OK. Unfortunately, all too often, what one gets is a’strummin, a’swayin, let’s feel good, psuedo rock concert which does NOT acknowledge that Presence. We should enter into the Eucharistic Mysteries with a sense of awe and wonder. Our Lord is not a rock star or a mega-church “protestant”.

Oh the mystery, passing wonder when reclining at the board…Stychera for Holy Thursday.
 
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brotherhrolf:
Unfortunately, all too often, what one gets is a’strummin, a’swayin, let’s feel good, psuedo rock concert which does NOT acknowledge that Presence. .
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I have been to a lot of Masses using guitars and have never seen one that did not acknowledge the presence of Christ. In any case, the “feel” of the Mass does not change the reality.
 
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