Hand-Holding Explained

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otjm said:
Most of our mothers tried to teach manners…

It doesn’t take a sociologist to note that not all learned the lesson. 😋
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This reminds me of this Miss Manners column:

DEAR MISS MANNERS: A friend of a friend, who I see at some social events, does an odd thing. She will ask a question that is quite rude and none of her business, but add “I’m nosy” or “I’m rude” at the end. For example, she asked another guest, “When is that husband of yours going to get you pregnant? I’m nosy.”

The idea, apparently, is that rudeness is acceptable when the person admits it ahead of time. What is the appropriate response?

GENTLE READER: “Evidently.”

Miss Manners advises that this be said with a sympathetic smile and followed by silence.

When someone tries to grab your hand at Mass, you can refuse by pulling your hand away and looking at them with a mixture of puzzlement and sympathy, as if they must have you mixed up with someone else.

If they ask you after Mass, you say, “Oh. Well. I did not want to hold hands. I don’t do that.” That’s all. Face says, “See? Question answered!”
If they keep talking, you can repeat as if they did not hear you the first time.
 
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somecanadian said:
Do you find this alienates you from that person? My concern is that if I were to do the same my attempts to integrate into the community would be even more difficult as I would be seen as hostile or unfriendly.
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The look doesn’t have to be stern. You can use the same look that someone would use to turn down dessert…and, like turning down dessert, you do not owe anyone any explanations. A simple “no, thank you” is all that is needed, whether that is a look or in a conversation.
 
I can never understand how these hand-holding threads go hundreds of posts. Many people in church these days just wave their upraised hand or make a peace sign. This is directly due to the fact that many people in church are concerned about communicable disease, are elderly and have arthritis or some condition where they don’t want their hand held, or are from a non-US culture where handshaking is not the normal way of wishing peace or greeting. Shake hands or don’t shake hands, it is not a big deal, just be assertive about your choice and smile while you are doing it.
 
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Yes, unfortunately many of us lack understanding of the mass thus we do certain movement of the body thinking that it is the right thing to do.

Those who know better would simply follow the crowd.

It is not too bad when there’s no right or wrong to it but when we do it without knowing why, then perhaps we should be more mindful of what the mass entail.

In my parish, it has become a habit for everybody to bow to the altar together with the priest after the procession even though they had already bowed earlier on as they entered the church.
 
Pup7 said:
It appears we weren’t discussing torturous battery.

As an ex-cop, I can tell you a battery charge could indeed stand. You would NEVER tolerate someone forcefully grabbing your hand to hold it in, say, Target - so why in the world would church be OK? It would be battery in Target. Same thing.

Would it happen? No. But fishing for my hand when I’m not offering it is going to get the other person’s hand shoved away. I won’t acquiesce just because someone else wants me to.
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Well, that’s why I’m not a lawyer.

(BTW- I’m not into hand-holding either; in fact, I’m vehemently against it, but I couldn’t even imagine trying to pursue criminal charges if someone tried to hold my hand at the Our Father.)
 
As I said, I don’t think it would actually happen. But some of the stories I hear on here of people just literally grabbing hands makes me wonder - because there really are People Crazy Enough to Do It. LOL.
 
Fist bumping seems a lot more sanitary, for those that don’t want to touch some stranger’s sweaty palm.
 
Until new Canons are issued regarding the correct hand cleanser, I must abstain.
 
Well, I do travel with my hematologist and address lymphoma patient groups 4X yearly. Moderate a cancer forum and active on 2-3 others.
 
Well, if the person grabbed your hand, I would say they were rude.

And so I guess it is okay to be rude back… 🤔
 
Should attend our Mass and sit on the side row! LOL!

There’s this lady who goes up and down the aisle during and after the Sign of Peace. And if you ignore her and you’re on the outside she’ll forcefully grab and pull your arm to get your attention. She’s done this to me multiple times and she’s scared the pants out of me a few times because of it!

When you’re concentrating on the priest and somebody grabs your arm it can be a bit… discomfitting!
 
Hope1960 said:
That really is reserved for the Priest alone.
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Both Catholic Churches that I attend, one is my main church and am a member of the other is the one I grew up in as a kid, a lot of the laity do it. When I first came back to the church I did it because I forgot parts of the Mass and was relearning it. I dont do it anymore, has been a few years.

Now as far as hand holding, sometimes I do but mostly I don’t. I guess it just depends on the situation.
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otjm said:
Well, if the person grabbed your hand, I would say they were rude.

And so I guess it is okay to be rude back… 🤔
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By “grab”, I mean people who occasionally will not take “no” for an answer.
The theory is that when someone is unintentionally rude, including when they are too forward, the gracious thing is to try to cover for them. You simply decline their offer as generously meant.
When they fail to take the out and persist in trying to force you to do what they want, rather than respecting your right to decline, the thing to do is to be firm with them.
When someone tries to grab your hand and you do not reciprocate, most people will respect that and leave you alone.
If you are not reciprocating and someone tries to force you to comply with their wishes, you give them a look that says, “you must have me mixed up with someone else.” That is still not rude on your part.
It is NOT rude to stick with your guns and make decisions for yourself that are yours to make, nor is it rude to let people know you have made a decision and don’t feel a need to make excuses for yourself or subject your reasons to their approval. That is why, “oh, well, I don’t do that” is a perfectly acceptable answer.
 
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We can agree to disagree.

I would lay dollars to donuts that the majority of people who are strongly against holding hands, would, if they met the same person in a different setting other than church, shake hands with that individual.

I don’t have a dog in the fight; I don’t really care whether people hold hands or don’t hold hands. If someone wants to hold my hand during he Our Father, I would never make an issue out of it; I would just hold their hand, and if they do not reach out to me, I do not reach out to them.

I guess I was simply taught a different set of manners. If per chance we were ever sitting next to each other in Mass, I certainly would not make an issue of it with you; as I say, I don’t initiate. On a rare occasion I have seen an individual “force the issue”, and I consider that wrong. But it is my humble opinion that something could be said after Mass to the individual rather than making a scene during the OUr Father; it will be obvious to some behind you that not only did the person next to you act rudely, but that you topped it off. You call it being firm; I call it making a scene to make your point, something that could be done after Mass.
 
otjm said:
We can agree to disagree.

I would lay dollars to donuts that the majority of people who are strongly against holding hands, would, if they met the same person in a different setting other than church, shake hands with that individual.

I don’t have a dog in the fight; I don’t really care whether people hold hands or don’t hold hands. If someone wants to hold my hand during he Our Father, I would never make an issue out of it; I would just hold their hand, and if they do not reach out to me, I do not reach out to them.

I guess I was simply taught a different set of manners. If per chance we were ever sitting next to each other in Mass, I certainly would not make an issue of it with you; as I say, I don’t initiate. On a rare occasion I have seen an individual “force the issue”, and I consider that wrong. But it is my humble opinion that something could be said after Mass to the individual rather than making a scene during the OUr Father; it will be obvious to some behind you that not only did the person next to you act rudely, but that you topped it off. You call it being firm; I call it making a scene to make your point, something that could be done after Mass.
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Let’s just say that even for a handshake, if you offer your hand and someone doesn’t want to shake your hand, you don’t grab their hand and just shake it, anyway. I don’t think your mom taught you to think less of someone who didn’t go for that. If you tried to hug someone, even for the Sign of Peace, and they made it clear they didn’t want to hug you and you decided to hug the person anyway and th person shook you off, I certainly wouldn’t say that the person who tried to refuse more intimacy than they wanted “topping it off.”

Holding hands during the Our Father is not in the rubrics. It is not “making a scene” to decline participating in that custom.

I realize that some people think that being polite means doing anything to avoid “making a scene.” Experts on etiquette do not teach that. They teach how to firmly enforce the boundaries of propriety without being rude.

Let us say that someone asks a nosy question and then ends it with “I’m rude”…the nosy person trying to pry is the one who said it. It is not actually rude to reply with “Evidently.” It is firmly refusing to take her bait. Taken as admonishment of a sinner, it could even be seen as a spiritual work of mercy. Somebody needs to correct her, and a direct victim of her rudeness has the authority to do it.

Having said that, I don’t like holding hands for the Our Father but don’t enforce the boundary. If someone really wants to do it, I give in unless I have a cold or some reason to not let others touch my hands. I do defend the right of others to draw personal boundaries, though. That is not rude.
 
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I have no problem with someone setting personal boundaries. I happen to have been in college in the mid 1960’s and have a picture from that time of a Mass for college students in which they were holding hands. And the point is, I am well aware that Rome, who has been aware of hand holding during the Our Father, has for decades decided that they will not make any rule as to the issue - either allowing it or denying it. so, yes, it is not in the rubrics, but it is not like Rome is unaware of the issue.

And since 1965, I have on an occasion - rare, but not just a single instance - where someone rudely pushed the issue and grabbed a hand, And the response has been split; some acquiesced to the issue, and some pulled away, making a rude and awkward situation even more obvious.

I have no problem with someone not wanting to hold hands.

I do have a problem with someone wanting to hold hands and making a scene by grabbing the other’s hand.

I also have a problem with the other making the scene further evident, and prolonging it, by jerking away.

I am all for the person who does not want to hold hands taking it up after Mass. That is the appropriate time.

It is not really all that difficult. It is a bit like admonishing a child; most often it does not need to be done in public. and I raised twins, so it is not like I am unaware of the scene that can be created, or handled without making a scene.
 
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