Happy Birthday, Mr. Darwin: Growing Majority of Americans Support Teaching Both Sides of Evolution Debate

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Orogeny said:
Could you give us a couple of names of the ones who don’t accept common ancestry based on the scientific evidence and not because of their religious beliefs?
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Does a scientist’s belief in atheism invalidate his findings?
 
StAnastasia said:
Your God – the God of Intelligent Design – is like a parent who has to intervene periodically, with injections and operations to give the baby a heart, brain, and kidneys, or to turn on hormones, or to cause testicles to descend or breasts to develop, etc.
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I’ve never heard an ID proponent make that claim. Where did you see it?
StAnastasia said:
The God of ID is one who is not intelligent enough to have created a being with internal principles of development to begin with, but has to tinker with it, inserting parts and jump-starting processes along the way.

I and many Catholics worship the smarter God, not the amateur tinkerer God.

StAnastasia
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But what if God tinkers with his creation out of love, and not out of necessity? What if God prefers to interact at many levels with his creatures to show them his love? What kind of love is it that starts things going, then disappears? With your strawman anti-ID argument you seem to be reducing love to a kind of necessity that God wouldn’t stoop to, because he’s smart. Of course, that’s nonsense. God did the ultimate stooping when he incarnated as man. God is smart obviously. But impossible to you as this may sound, there are more important things than being smart. Love for example.

Late edit: BTW - since you claim to be a Catholic Theologian, you are undoubtedly aware that the scriptures are full of references to God’s love and exhortations to ask for God’s assistance with almost everything in our lives. And these scriptures are not just metaphorical myths that you can sweep away as irrelevant. This scriptural “interact with me” God is not the “wind-it-up-because-that’s-smarter” God that you envision. I’ll bet that you have this vision of God because science is leading you in that direction. Why would you let science dictate your vision of God? Especially when you claim that Science can say nothing about God?
 
Orogeny said:
Do you reject common ancestry because of scientific evidence or because of your faith?

Peace

Tim
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Because of the lack of scientific evidence, the deceitful tactics of evolutionists, the criticisms of the theory I’ve read that have been logically consistent and because I do not see any theistic evolutionists who can reconcile that belief with the Catholic Faith and the teaching on Creation.
 
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Originally Posted by grannymh forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
Of course not. Any clue which of the 700 (did go to your link) have published major reports/findings?
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reggieM said:
What number are you looking for?
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Number? Not sure what you mean. I’m looking for the major players who have published significant research. I’ll take all, provided I can download something on their research.

It looks like the link is connected with the Discovery Institute in Seattle. ???
 
Valke2 said:
Evolution, climate change and gravity are all nonsense.
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I’m just jumping into this thread, and was looking over the shorter posts (so I haven’t seen all the previous ones), so I’m not sure what you’re getting at here.

There is climate change. Always has been, always will be. Independently of global warming. Or global cooling (which was the global warming of the 1970’s, hence it was obviously nonsense, although it was Truth at the time.)

Other than the fact that “there is gravity”, it is actually quite mysterious. No one knows the root cause of gravity. Nobody knows how fast gravity waves travel. Gravity travel time wasn’t a factor in Newton’s equations. Quite mysterious really. Given this, it is also mysterious why the Darwinists continually (favorably) compare the theory of evolution to the “theory of gravity” .

Having been a regular participant on the evolution threads (oh does my head hurt!), there seems to be a general consensus amongst almost everyone of every viewpoint that micro-evolution, as in selective breeding creating many different sizes and shapes of dogs, is quite provable. Macro evolution as a theory, however, needs to explain at the DNA level how life started with the simplest creature and ended up with the most complex. But unfortunately there is actually no DNA from these earlier creatures to verify the actual speculation. It may be right, or it may be wrong, but it remains merely speculation without that DNA evidence. It is not yet the Truth.
 
grannymh said:
Number? Not sure what you mean. I’m looking for the major players who have published significant research. I’ll take all, provided I can download something on their research.
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I mean, how much research do you want me to do for you?🙂

Ok, here’s one.

Stanley Salthe

Again, I’m not sure what you’re looking for, but I don’t want to go through the entire list of 700 and send you information about them. I’m sure you can understand. 😉
It looks like the link is connected with the Discovery Institute in Seattle. ???
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That is correct. You may want to try this peer reviewed paper by signee, Stephen Meyer also.

discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/filesDB-download.php?command=download&id=1026
 
reggieM said:
I mean, how much research do you want me to do for you?🙂
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All of it! :rotfl:

Couldn’t resist since you did ask the question. 😃

You’ve given me another resource. Thanks. Right now I’m gathering general information. Eventually, I’m going to make an exact list of what I am looking for…

Blessings,
granny

All human beings are worthy of profound respect throughout their entire time on this earth.
 
reggieM said:
Because of the lack of scientific evidence, the deceitful tactics of evolutionists, the criticisms of the theory I’ve read that have been logically consistent and because I do not see any theistic evolutionists who can reconcile that belief with the Catholic Faith and the teaching on Creation.
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Only the first reason would qualify as a scientific reason. At least you admit that the main reason you reject science is because of your faith.

Now about the evidence. You claim that a lack of evidence exists, yet you also have acknowledged that you are not a scientist. Is it possible that you are missing something or do you have more academic and scientific credentials than every scientist on the Project Steve list?

Peace

Tim
 
reggieM said:
Do you claim to have more academic and scientific credentials than every scientist on that list does?
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Do you claim to have more academic and scientific credentials than every scientist on the Project Steve list?

Peace

Tim
 
grannymh said:
Number? Not sure what you mean. I’m looking for the major players who have published significant research. I’ll take all, provided I can download something on their research.

It looks like the link is connected with the Discovery Institute in Seattle. ???
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Yes, that list is a product of the DI. The Project Steve list was generated as a parody of that list.

Peace

Tim
 
reggieM said:
Christ referred to Himself as the Good Shepherd. He shepherds the flock – teaching, guiding, forming and directing them…That is what Divine Providence is all about. Liberal theology would deny the concept.
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No, you’re missing the point. Of course I believe Christ and the Holy Spirit through the Church guide, teach, form and direct.

What I reject about ID is the idea that God’s creation was so incomplete and halting that God had to intervene so that the Cambrian explosion happened, had to intervene so that reptiles evolved into protomammals, protomammals into mammals, one line of mammals into primates, and one line of primates into humans. That’s the kind of tinkering I don’t believe God engages in. God seeded the universe (to use a Soic-Augustinian idea) with “logikoi spermatikoi” from which the elements of the universe and life were later able to evolve.

StAnastasia
 
Orogeny said:
Do you reject common ancestry because of scientific evidence or because of your faith?

Peace

Tim
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common ancestry is a fact:-

The common ancestors of ALL humans is Adam and Eve

The common ancestors of all bacteria is bacteria

The common ancestors of all sea horses is sea horses

Thats all science has ever been able to demonstrate empirically and all of the above were created with built in variability and richness of information to be able to survive.
 
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