Hard to concentrate at mass...is it just me?

[cradlecatholic5]

@ Rascalking, just saying what I believe. You’re welcome.

P.S. I’ve been in the minority many times.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

The crucifix behind the alter was not present, it was Jesus raising his arms as if from the resurrection with rays of light behind him.

I too would prefer to see a crucifix. I am not sure that what was there in place of the crucifix was right or wrong.

You say that you think all Catholic churches should be the same. You cannot expect the fabric, fixtures, fittings, decor, etc. to be the same in all churches.

The piano was up front and lead into more of a show than playing music to complement the Mass.

I think that you should qualify your phrase “… lead into more of a show than playing music …”. A lot of your comments are inferences from what you observed. You cannot know the intentions of the people on which you comment.

Upon entering the Church many people were carrying on conversations as if it were the Church hall, there was even a person in front of me texting.

Unfortunately this happens a lot and it seems to be a result of people not having respect for Church and many things in general these days.

This was a 6pm Mass so it seems that most people were just there to “fulfill their weekend obligation” and the simple reverence for the Mass was not there.

You were at this six o’clock Mass. Were you there just to “fulfil your weekend obligation”? Can you see how wrong it is to make this inference. The Church provides Mass at various times for Sunday, including on Saturday evening. It is not wrong for anyone to go at any of these times. A person is not at fault if they go at 7 o’clock on Saturday evening or 10 o’clock on Sunday morning.

As for the behaviour of these people, they would very likely behave in the same manner if they went on Sunday morning.

There was no second reading, is that right or okay?

You don’t actually say when you went to this Mass. Based on your previous point I think it reasonable to infer it was a Sunday Mass celebrated on Saturday evening. As a Sunday Mass there should have been a second reading but you could have endeavoured to discover why it was omitted.

The ladies that brought up the gifts were processing to the back of the Church and halfway back they were talking and the only lady laughed so hard that she had to cover her mouth to hold in the laughing.

That behaviour was inappropriate. I think it is a reflection of people’s lack of respect for the Mass and the Church. It also demonstrates the general lack of respect in society today.

The priest giving handshakes and “fives” to kids as he processed out at the end of Mass.

The priest should have more decorum during the recession. If he wishes to behave in this manner he could do so at the church door as people leave.

As we were leaving those same ladies (guessing they were ushers) were handing out bulletins and telling every (very loudly) “Thanks for coming, come and see us again.” “Thanks, we will see you next weekend.”

I think that you’re being a little harsh here. Their exact words may not be the best ones to use but their intention in being friendly could have been well meant.

For myself and my wife it became very difficult for us to concentrate on the Mass and not focus out attention on the abuses going on during the Mass.

Was this because other things happened during this Mass that you have not mentioned? Most of the things of which you complain didn’t occur during Mass itself.

 

[Apryl]

I’m a bit irratated by the response that a priest should NOT be able to thank people for comming. I am grateful whenever anyone sees the value of mass enough to come. It is a gift from God in the form of grace.

I also get mad at people who judge texting/screen phone use. I used it this sunday to look up the readings. Our misselettes don’t have the text and the microphone was so bad I didn’t understand a single word.

Besides that, I have a friend who has life threatening health conditions. The ONLY time my phone ever rang in mass was becuase her mom called to let me know she was going in for emergency major heart surgery and to put the phone to her ear so I could tell her I loved her and was praying for her. Afterward a parishoner chided me for running out with my cell and returning to mass. I wanted to punch him. HE was the rude one. My friend lived, but if she hadn’t I would of grieved that I missed her call and to let her know I was praying. And who knows…maybe my prayers before Jesus’ sacred heart let her heart be healed for the time being.

Purple, I can understand your perspective, but you have to realize that not every one who has a phone in his hand is looking up the readings, or finding a scripture, or just using it as a way to send texts. MOST of the people, esp the young folx and people who see their phones as their ‘new god’ will talk and text on their phone, sometimes, DURING Mass.

Just like any one else: most people who receive calls during events (Mass, Theater productions, etc) are NOT getting important, emergency calls. [Why do people answer the phone to say ‘Wha? Wha? I can’t talk right now. Ok. I’ll call you back. Wha? Wha? I can’t talk to you now’, when they have voice mail on the phone ]

You did run out of Mass. Thank you. That is an appropriate action. Look around: a lot of other people take their calls during Mass. As a matter of fact, I was at the Cathedral over the weekend, and during the prayer, someone got a call and talked the entire duration of the prayer.

 

[PiousTemplar]

• The priest giving handshakes and “fives” to kids as he processed out at the end of Mass.

Is this that bad? Perhaps the priest is trying to atleast let the Kids get some encouragement to come to the Mass. For a child, an adult with obvious authority achknowleging them is very encouraging!

 

[stanncie]

Hi op!

I think it’s unfortunate that some of these things occurred during mass but I agree with many posters that you are taking a harsh view.

I especially disagree with you about the people ‘just fulfilling their Sunday obligation’ comment. I often go to a 7 p.m. Sunday mass. I would prefer to go to an earlier mass but it’s often impossible.

Just yesterday I volunteered for my parish’s weekly flea market and I was in the sun all day in 90 degree heat helping to sell stuff and trying to keep order whilst everyone was making it impossible because they were throwing the merchandise every which way. When it was done I was covered with dirt and had a massive headache but I was happy because we raised 1,000 dollars for our parish

i only had time to go home eat something, take a quick shower and I fell asleep for around 45 minutes. I got to Mass 5 minutes late and disrupted some people because I saw my friends that had been helping along with me at the flea market and they were calling me over. We giggled at one point in the mass because i had to keep waking up one of my friends who kept falling asleep, she had been at the flea market since 7:30 that morning and had then proceeded to help in a bible study from 2 to 4 so she was exhausted.

If you had seen us you would have probably thought we were disrespectful girls who were just there to be there or had been dragged there. In reality we love the church and want to be there!!

This scenario happens many weekends because there are just so many activities to be done and our parish is in serious financial trouble.

whenever you see someone and begin to judge them you are just reflecting an ugly side of yourself, just say a prayer for that person and thank God that they are there worshiping God the best they can and be thankful to Him.

God Bless you

 

[Apryl]

I especially disagree with you about the people ‘just fulfilling their Sunday obligation’ comment. I often go to a 7 p.m. Sunday mass. I would prefer to go to an earlier mass but it’s often impossible.

Are you guys getting hung up on the mention of the time?

Have you never been to a Mass on Sunday morning where people were ‘just fulfilling their obligation’? And if you are at that Mass, and you see the ful-fillers, it’s hard to not notice them, esp when you are being distracted by the lack of reverence… which would cause one to think the people they are talking about are ful-fillers.

If a person chooses to go to Mass on Saturday, esp if that’s a way to prevent not making their Sunday obligation, but they are just there to fulfill their obligation, it’s even harder to witness, since their actions (that of making the time on Saturday evening) are in conflict with their behaviors.

 

[Brooke449]

I agree with Rascalking, Dave 2300 and Cradlecatholic. I almost always go to evening masses on both Saturday and Sunday. To assume that I am any less reverent than a Sunday morning attendee is arrogant, judgmental and presumptuous.

When I find myself becoming critical of how others are practicing their faith, after some reflection and self-examination, I ALWAYS find that the problem is not how THEY are practicing, the problem is how I am practicing. Spiritual sickness often manifests itself that way in me. Lack of acceptance is the problem. If we all practiced Catholicism perfectly, we wouldn’t need any help. We’re all on our own journey and going at our own speed. We don’t get to judge anyone’s progress. When you get annoyed at Mass, perhaps you might try saying a prayer of thanksgiving that the “offenders” are in church at all (even if they’re not behaving up to your standards). If they’re at Mass at all, there is hope!

I will pray that you find acceptance of your brothers and sisters. That is the only way you will ever find peace in this life my friend. That’s a promise.

Peace and Love to you MM…

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Are you guys getting hung up on the mention of the time?

Have you never been to a Mass on Sunday morning where people were ‘just fulfilling their obligation’? And if you are at that Mass, and you see the ful-fillers, it’s hard to not notice them, esp when you are being distracted by the lack of reverence… which would cause one to think the people they are talking about are ful-fillers.

If a person chooses to go to Mass on Saturday, esp if that’s a way to prevent not making their Sunday obligation, but they are just there to fulfill their obligation, it’s even harder to witness, since their actions (that of making the time on Saturday evening) are in conflict with their behaviors.

Wait, what? Do we not have to ‘fulfill our obligation?’ Is that not mandatory?

So why should the time matter? Many parishes offer multiple Mass times starting from Vigil to later Sunday. You go when you go. I don’t get the beef with what time you choose.

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

So let me take a few mintues to clarify some of the things that are being said on this thread. My point in posting was this was that I was frustrated by the lack of respect and reverence for the Mass and what is truly happening there at the Mass.

As the biggest thing seems to be my phrasing of “fulfilling an obligation” and that was not meant as a judgemental comment or observation, more of the general feel that I got while at mass. Again this was a 6 pm Mass on Sunday evening which we normally do not attend, but have been moving all weekend and this worked out best for our family. Was I there to “fulfill an obligation?” No, I do not view my attendance at Mass as an obligation, we are required to be there by the Catholic Church, but I do this because I want to be there, not out of a sense of obligation. When I made that I comment I was basing it on the fact that most in the Church were simply going through the motions and not participating in the Mass and giving it the proper respect that it truly deserves. As for the lady on the phone, she was right in front of me with an iphone texting someone, I could see it plain as day, is that being respectful? I apologize if this comes off as being judgemental as that was not the intention, but I know from experience how it is to come to Mass because you do not want to “break a rule” or sin by not being there, but you are not really “into” what is truly happening

A lot of these observations of what went on at this Mass come from my learning more about what the Mass truly is and how we are to be at Mass and the things that happen during the Mass. Mind you, many years ago, the things that happened at this Mass would have been like water off of a duck’s back to me and I would not have thought twice about it, but that has changed. Too often the Catholic Mass has become more and more “protestant” to make everyone feel good and it is sad to see the Mass get away from what it used to be in the past. Cause what happens when that “feeling” wears off, then what are you left with? WIth the Catholic Mass we know that it is consistent, we will receive Jesus each and every Mass (if we are in the state of grace) and that will not change. We, the faithful as well as the priests have been given teachings by the Church, the Magesterium, the Pope, etc. as to how to participate and say the Mass and many times these teachings are not followed. It is sad.

This thread was not about agreeing with what went on at that Mass, but more of a way of finding out how others deal with distractions/abuses they they witness at Mass. I feel that the things that I mentioned are things that take away from the true meaning of the Mass. Would you see these things happening if the Pope came to your Church? Would there be casual chit-chat? Would there be a pianist playing music as if he is the main focus? Would there be laughing? Skipped second reading? If you would not do it when the Pope is there, why do it when he is not, what makes it different? The Mass is the same with the Pope saying it or when any other priest says it.

Was everything that I mentioned earth shattering and in need of contacting a local bishop right away? No it was not, but it was a progression of things that happened that when you see it in total, you know that things are not trending in the right direction and that the true meaning of the Mass is being lost. It is sad and it breaks my heart that it happens. I cannot know for each individual person there how they feel about this and it is not about me judging them or anything like that. My desire in my discovery is that others can see that as well. Many may not be there right now, and I get that, but the Mass should be leading them towards that, not taking it away. All too often many Chruches are leading them away from it.

Again, thank you for everyone for their opinions, I understand where most of you are coming from and have done my best to try to clarify a few things. I hope that this helps and know that for me and my family, going to a Mass like this will not be something that we will do, we will be going elsewhere. That is for us, that is how we want to be a part of the Mass.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

If it’s mortally sinful to skip Mass without a pressing reason, it’s an OBLIGATION. That word is used multiple times when priests and religious speak of the Mass or when you read of it.

It is an obligation. How you ‘feel’ about it is not on the table. Why do people have such trouble with that simple concept?

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

If it’s mortally sinful to skip Mass without a pressing reason, it’s an OBLIGATION. That word is used multiple times when priests and religious speak of the Mass or when you read of it.

It is an obligation. How you ‘feel’ about it is not on the table. Why do people have such trouble with that simple concept?

Let me clarify, I know that it is required by the Church, I know that it is an obligation, but for me I do not view it that way cause it is something that I would do no matter what, I would go to Mass no matter what. I would be there every Sunday. I try to go during the week if I can, not obliged to, but it is encouraged and I try to make it once a week if I can.

Sorry for stating that in a way that lead to confusion (from me).

 

[Incomplete]

Thank you for taking the time to clarify some things.

I think the reason people got caught up on your comment about the time was because you didn’t just say that people were disrespectful, therefore you were wondering if they were just fulfilling their obligation. You mentioned the time of the Mass, as thought that’s why you think they were fulfilling an obligation. I had the same impression others did, that the time of the Mass made you think that. Then another person responded that they serve at a late Mass and called people “last-chancers” or something like that.

For myself, I also reacted strongly to that statement because I often go to a 7 p.m. Mass. I didn’t used to, but one day my family and I decided to and as we walked in that night, I remember us saying, this is a little late, we probably won’t do it again.

But it was such a beautiful Mass, and people were truly participating. We already knew the priest to be gifted. Celebrating Mass later in the evening turned out to be such a wonderful thing, because it kept it on your mind until bedtime. It became my favorite Mass.

We also frequently attend Saturday evening. I (and the priest as well) find the people at the Saturday evening Mass to be more attentive and responsive than the morning Masses.

I’m glad you clarified. I hope this helps you understand why people took offense.

I have no reason to go line-by-line to your comments. Just one thing to say, and I could be totally wrong, but regarding the person texting: you never know who is a visitor. On Easter Vigil a friend of my daughter’s was received into the Church. His atheist brother attended. They were sitting near the front, and he texted almost the entire time. I felt so badly for those who were distracted by him.

That may not be the case for the person you described, but just a thought. Lack of a reading would bother me a lot. If you think there’s a lot of disrespect in general, you are right to find a place where you can worship well.

 

[Rascalking]

Too often the Catholic Mass has become more and more “protestant” to make everyone feel good and it is sad to see the Mass get away from what it used to be in the past. Cause what happens when that “feeling” wears off, then what are you left with? .

So, would you rather people be miserable at mass? Is that the “Catholic” way? I feel happy when I go to mass. Joyous even. Maybe I should skip the prozac and then go to mass? Where does it say that being Catholic has to be miserable?

I’m just trying to understand where your coming from.

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

So, would you rather people be miserable at mass? Is that the “Catholic” way? I feel happy when I go to mass. Joyous even. Maybe I should skip the prozac and then go to mass? Where does it say that being Catholic has to be miserable?

I’m just trying to understand where your coming from.

Now you are taking what I am saying and twisting it around into something that it is not. I did not say that I want people to be miserable at Mass, but the Catholic Mass is pointedly different from any other Christian service out there. If you have ever attended a service of another denomination, you will notice that it is a lot about the praise and worship music to make you feel good, feel the Spirit even, then the preaching is the same way. Targeted to make those there feel good, to feel the power of God even. Then they leave on that spiritual high. But what happens when you walk in one weekend and you are just not “feeling the music” anymore cause the changed it? Or the preacher is not touching you with the sermon that he is preaching, it is different? Then what?

What I am saying is that we, as Catholics, know what we are getting from the Mass each and every time that we go to Mass. It is a re-presentation of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross for us, it is a chance for us to receive him, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. That does not change, that is consistent. I did not say that there was a “Catholic way” to feel at Mass. I am glad that you feel joyous at Mass, that is how we are supposed to feel. But all too often it “seems” that people are there just to go through the motions.

It seems as if the Mass is getting away from what the Mass is. Take the Life Teen movement (which I was a part of when it came into the forefront) and see how all the different abuses affected the Mass. (I know that they have since corrected a lot of them). For example, they used to have the teenagers come up around the altar during the consecration. But I am guessing that for you, this is something that is ok? Or the fact that they brought a guitar, drums, bass guitar, etc into the Mass for the music and it became a concert. Is that what the Mass is about? When things such as these happen and continue to happen then the Mass gets away from what the Mass is supposed to be.

Sorry I am not on board with all of us holding hands and singing Kum-By-Yah.

 

[Rascalking]

Now you are taking what I am saying and twisting it around into something that it is not. I did not say that I want people to be miserable at Mass, but the Catholic Mass is pointedly different from any other Christian service out there. If you have ever attended a service of another denomination, you will notice that it is a lot about the praise and worship music to make you feel good, feel the Spirit even, then the preaching is the same way. Targeted to make those there feel good, to feel the power of God even. Then they leave on that spiritual high. But what happens when you walk in one weekend and you are just not “feeling the music” anymore cause the changed it? Or the preacher is not touching you with the sermon that he is preaching, it is different? Then what?

What I am saying is that we, as Catholics, know what we are getting from the Mass each and every time that we go to Mass. It is a re-presentation of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross for us, it is a chance for us to receive him, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. That does not change, that is consistent. I did not say that there was a “Catholic way” to feel at Mass. I am glad that you feel joyous at Mass, that is how we are supposed to feel. But all too often it “seems” that people are there just to go through the motions.

It seems as if the Mass is getting away from what the Mass is. Take the Life Teen movement (which I was a part of when it came into the forefront) and see how all the different abuses affected the Mass. (I know that they have since corrected a lot of them). For example, they used to have the teenagers come up around the altar during the consecration. But I am guessing that for you, this is something that is ok? Or the fact that they brought a guitar, drums, bass guitar, etc into the Mass for the music and it became a concert. Is that what the Mass is about? When things such as these happen and continue to happen then the Mass gets away from what the Mass is supposed to be.

Sorry I am not on board with all of us holding hands and singing Kum-By-Yah.

My friend, I am NOT trying to twist around your words, I am trying to understand where your coming from.

I am okay with having guitars/etc in Mass. I don’t think there is a problem with that. If it can draw people into mass and allow them to become closer to God, then yes, I am for that.

As for holding hands and singing “Kumbyyah”-no one is asking you to. What I am suggesting is perhaps you admit to yourself you can’t see peoples minds-why they go to church, and their intentions, whatever it “seems” to be-is up to them and God.

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

My friend, I am NOT trying to twist around your words, I am trying to understand where your coming from.

I am okay with having guitars/etc in Mass. I don’t think there is a problem with that. If it can draw people into mass and allow them to become closer to God, then yes, I am for that.

As for holding hands and singing “Kumbyyah”-no one is asking you to. What I am suggesting is perhaps you admit to yourself you can’t see peoples minds-why they go to church, and their intentions, whatever it “seems” to be-is up to them and God.

I have never said that I could see into someone’s mind and you seem to be too caught up on that part of this discussion. What I have been talking about is what can be classified as abuses during the Mass. Did you miss some of that? Not having a second reading at Mass? Ladies laughing while processing back from bringing up the gifts? While some things are less “severe” than others, they seems to all to be a small part of a larger problem. I understand that you do not have a problem with some of those acts, but there are others that view these as problems. I did not say having a guitar at Mass was a problem. Take the time to read what I wrote.
Mirror Mirror:

Or the fact that they brought a guitar, drums, bass guitar, etc into the Mass for the music and it became a concert. Is that what the Mass is about?

I said that it becomes a concert and I have seen that at several parishes. A simple guitar playing is not a problem, the full scale band that brings in that concert affect is a problem.

I do not know “why” others are there, it is not for me to know, I am saying that abuses of the Mass are being allowed. I have explained myself in several posts, if you have yet to understand what I am trying to say, then I apologize, I have done my best to present what I view as abuses to the Mass.

 

[Rascalking]

Mirror Mirror-Friend, I’ve made my points, you’ve made yours.

God bless.

 

[Apryl]

Wait, what? Do we not have to ‘fulfill our obligation?’ Is that not mandatory?

So why should the time matter? Many parishes offer multiple Mass times starting from Vigil to later Sunday. You go when you go. I don’t get the beef with what time you choose.

Time does not matter.

That was my point: that time does not matter

What does matter is people who are ONLY there to fulfill their obligation, not there to partake in the Mass, don’t appreciate what they have or what they are experiencing.

Since they are there ONLY to meet their obligation, their reverence is not there and their actions can be not only distracting, but discouraging to those who are there for God.

I’m not up to minute detail scrutiny today. The point remains.

 

[Apryl]

In my parish, whoever wants to hold hands during the Our Father does, who doesn’t want to doesn’t … it’s a matter of preference.

I give you a challenge:

One Sunday, maybe not this Sunday, but soon, go to Mass… sit in your usual seat/area… when it’s time for the Lord’s Prayer, just stand there, and don’t take the hands of those beside you.

I bet you dollars to doughnuts that someone who is accostomed to you holding hands (provided this is what you have done in the past) will take your hand. If you are not next to them, they will move to you, and may even SAY something about ‘why aren’t you moving’

I’m hoping I’m wrong.

Really, I am.

But I expect that while people who say, ‘it’s your choice’ may be the ones who would never dare to try to make any one else hold hands, they don’t notice that others insist on the hand holding. I’ve been in churches in many states, and it’s more likely than not, esp when most of the congregation does hold hands.

 

[LemonAndLime]

I’ve had this sort of experience before. I never realised how good my usual parish is (it was my first) until I went home (where I had never been to mass as it was the first time I had gone home since I became a Catholic).

At the parish where my parent’s live, it was small and unusually plain. The music was accompanied with a guitar, flute, violin, and some bells - maybe a tamborine. This was the first, and sadly only Mass I attempted to “veil” in using a headscarf. I was literally glared at by the Priest and altar server. The Priest was Eastern European and his english and his pronounciation was not very good at all.

When the collection came round, women held it - it wasn’t passed, they stop in front of you and shook it under my nose until I got my purse out. I didn’t get my purse out because I didn’t have any money with me apart from my taxi fare home. So I gave her about 5p to leave me alone as she waited until I gave her something, and the same for everyone else to. I found that rude.