Hard to concentrate at mass...is it just me?

[Apryl]

The problem I have with the holding hands is that in some parishes, The Our Father, the holding hands and the sign of peace seems to have become more important than the Consacration. In my parish the priest even comes out of the santuary to shake hands with people.Another thing is if I indicate that I would rather not, I smile and shake my head no, I sometimes get an angry look.

… and you get that angry look because some people have come to believe that is what YOU are supposed to do, not what you may do, but what you are SUPPOSED to do.

The Consecration, for them, is something that the priest does while they are getting ready for the Lord’s Prayer (and hand holding) and the Sign of Peace, which is the last thing before they get that cracker and some juice to walk it down on their way out for the rest of their day.

When asked, “Oh, it’s the EUCHARIST”… but they go for Communion with gum and breath mints in their mouths, and they chat on the way up to receive, then, once they have that cracker in their mouths, it’s ok for them to talk about all the other worldly issues and the like.

But they did get to hold hands with the people in the pew, and they made it their business to shake hands with every one at the Sign of Peace… and if lucky, they were the last to get back to their seats.

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

… and you get that angry look because some people have come to believe that is what YOU are supposed to do, not what you may do, but what you are SUPPOSED to do.

The Consecration, for them, is something that the priest does while they are getting ready for the Lord’s Prayer (and hand holding) and the Sign of Peace, which is the last thing before they get that cracker and some juice to walk it down on their way out for the rest of their day.

When asked, “Oh, it’s the EUCHARIST”… but they go for Communion with gum and breath mints in their mouths, and they chat on the way up to receive, then, once they have that cracker in their mouths, it’s ok for them to talk about all the other worldly issues and the like.

But they did get to hold hands with the people in the pew, and they made it their business to shake hands with every one at the Sign of Peace… and if lucky, they were the last to get back to their seats.

Just sitting back here and nodding my head in agreement. Try as we may to not get “caught up” in these issues at Mass, it happens. Sad but true when the things that you have mentioned above do actually happen and more often than not. I had to think about that this weekend. As I have noted, we are new to the area that we are living in and on Sunday we went to a very nice church and when receiving Communion it was actual bread (little square) and my daughter just received her First Holy Communion back in May and she had never experienced this type of bread. Once we got back to the pew, she had still not consumed the bread saying that she did not like the taste of it and wanted to spit it out. I had to take her to the back (as she started to cry) to get some water in order to allow her to consume it. But it made me wonder later on, how many would have just had their child spit out the host not truly understanding what It is?

The parish we were at this weekend did hold hands during the Our Father (they did not cross pews as they did 2 weekends ago), but we did not participate.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

… and you get that angry look because some people have come to believe that is what YOU are supposed to do, not what you may do, but what you are SUPPOSED to do.

The Consecration, for them, is something that the priest does while they are getting ready for the Lord’s Prayer (and hand holding) and the Sign of Peace, which is the last thing before they get that cracker and some juice to walk it down on their way out for the rest of their day.

When asked, “Oh, it’s the EUCHARIST”… but they go for Communion with gum and breath mints in their mouths, and they chat on the way up to receive, then, once they have that cracker in their mouths, it’s ok for them to talk about all the other worldly issues and the like.

But they did get to hold hands with the people in the pew, and they made it their business to shake hands with every one at the Sign of Peace… and if lucky, they were the last to get back to their seats.

I close my eyes.

I clasp my hands.

I pray.

I don’t like the handshaky bit either but I will do it after the Our Father. Yes, I find it forced and distracting, but I will not hold hands during. This isn’t a tent revival meeting. It’s the Sacrifice of the Mass.

 

[inmaddfox]

Just sitting back here and nodding my head in agreement. Try as we may to not get “caught up” in these issues at Mass, it happens. Sad but true when the things that you have mentioned above do actually happen and more often than not. I had to think about that this weekend. As I have noted, we are new to the area that we are living in and on Sunday we went to a very nice church and when receiving Communion it was actual bread (little square) and my daughter just received her First Holy Communion back in May and she had never experienced this type of bread. Once we got back to the pew, she had still not consumed the bread saying that she did not like the taste of it and wanted to spit it out. I had to take her to the back (as she started to cry) to get some water in order to allow her to consume it. But it made me wonder later on, how many would have just had their child spit out the host not truly understanding what It is?

The parish we were at this weekend did hold hands during the Our Father (they did not cross pews as they did 2 weekends ago), but we did not participate.

For Holy Thursday in my parish I make the type of bread you are talking about to be used to confect the Holy Eucharist. A person must be careful when making the bread, you are allowed only wheat flower and water. I have heard of people using oil, honey, sugar, all make the bread illicit. I’m going to look into differant grinds of wheat that might make it a better tasting bread, but still proper. The use of this bread is to remind us of the Sader Supper that Jesus wes celebrating at the Last Supper. Passover.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

And here I always thought the wafers had to be made by nuns and approved by bishops.

 

[asnate]

The problem I have with the holding hands is that in some parishes, The Our Father, the holding hands and the sign of peace seems to have become more important than the Consacration. In my parish the priest even comes out of the santuary to shake hands with people.Another thing is if I indicate that I would rather not, I smile and shake my head no, I sometimes get an angry look.

Have you never considered a possibility it might be Jesus giving His peace to you through your brother/sister?

 

[mamacita]

And here I always thought the wafers had to be made by nuns and approved by bishops.

Sailor, I thought the same thing.

 

[inmaddfox]

Have you never considered a possibility it might be Jesus giving His peace to you through your brother/sister?

Nowhere in the current GENERAL INSTRUCTIONS of the ROMAN MISSAL (GIRM) does it say to hold hands or that the ORANS POSTURE is recommended for the congregation during the Our Father. It’s a good idea that if something isn’t in the GIRM don’t do it. The GIRM will never say what not to do, it is always in the possitive mode in its instructions.

 

[inmaddfox]

Sailor, I thought the same thing.

I didn’t just decide on my own to make bread for use in the concecration, the parish knew that I make bread for our festival, I was asked to make the bread for Holy Thursday. Anyone can do it, but they better know what they are doing, there are rules as to what can go into the bread. Anyone can do it but it might be good to give your Paster a heads up, so he can approve or disaprove. Also, he will want to know that you are aware of the rules governing the making of the bread.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Re communion wafers, I found this thread here on CAF.

Often the sole support for religious is income for making these wafers.

 

[Apryl]

Nowhere in the current GENERAL INSTRUCTIONS of the ROMAN MISSAL (GIRM) does it say to hold hands or that the ORANS POSTURE is recommended for the congregation during the Our Father. It’s a good idea that if something isn’t in the GIRM don’t do it. The GIRM will never say what not to do, it is always in the possitive mode in its instructions.

Ok, since I see it used all the time, and since I’m not in the mood to look for myself…

What does ‘Orans Posture’ mean? Is that ‘standing with hands outstretched’?

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Sort of—the priest does it. Your hands are separated , shoulder width or so, palms up.

 

[Apryl]

Sort of—the priest does it. Your hands are separated , shoulder width or so, palms up.

… and I take it from your response that at no time during the Mass is the congregation expected to do the same?

Hmmm… now that you mention it, I can’t think of a time during the Mass when it is something we are to do…

I know that often at the Collect, people tend to raise their hands, but I don’t know why, since the words that prompt the hands going up are “I lift my HEART to the Lord” … LOL

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

… and I take it from your response that at no time during the Mass is the congregation expected to do the same?

Hmmm… now that you mention it, I can’t think of a time during the Mass when it is something we are to do…

I know that often at the Collect, people tend to raise their hands, but I don’t know why, since the words that prompt the hands going up are “I lift my HEART to the Lord” … LOL

The Priest does this (Ourans). I’m not comfortable doing it myself.

Nor am I knowledgeable enough to state that it’s absolutely forbidden for the congregation to do it—I have a vague memory of reading somewhere that it MIGHT be ‘allowable’ but I still don’t like it.

 

[Apryl]

The Priest does this (Ourans). I’m not comfortable doing it myself.

Nor am I knowledgeable enough to state that it’s absolutely forbidden for the congregation to do it—I have a vague memory of reading somewhere that it MIGHT be ‘allowable’ but I still don’t like it.

See, my objection with it isn’t based on it being ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ (although I think that if it’s wrong, it shouldn’t be the done… and that should be stressed by the priests and bishops)

My objection is more of the ‘do you know why you are doing that?’, since so many folx seem to do what they see certain others do… then others do what they see them do, and so on.

… but then, the ‘non-conformist’ wants to not do what is supposed to be done. So, you see people standing with hands held high when they hear ‘… lift them up to the Lord’… but they DON’T bow when we are doing the Creed and get to the ‘born of a Virgin Mary’.

 

[inmaddfox]

Have you never considered a possibility it might be Jesus giving His peace to you through your brother/sister?

I have absolutely no problem with the giving of the sign of peace AS LONG as it is done with the proper respect of where you are. There are always some who are never satisfied with what the Church suggests. To greet the person next to you with the sign of peace. Actually I greet all that I can reach plus knod to those that I can’t and mouth the peace of God to them.

 

[inmaddfox]

The Priest does this (Ourans). I’m not comfortable doing it myself.

Nor am I knowledgeable enough to state that it’s absolutely forbidden for the congregation to do it—I have a vague memory of reading somewhere that it MIGHT be ‘allowable’ but I still don’t like it.

I remember seeing a guy that at the Our Father he took the Ourans position but added having his index fingers and thumbs pressed together on each hand. I had to smile when I noticed him doing that.I had to wonder just what was going throught his mind at the time. The fellow was old enough to have seen the Priests doing the same thing from the Consicration to the end of Communion when the priest washed his fingers as the server pored water into the chalice for the pruification. The Priest held his fingers together so that if there were particles of the Consicrated Host on them, the particles wouldn’t fall.

 

[inmaddfox]

See, my objection with it isn’t based on it being ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ (although I think that if it’s wrong, it shouldn’t be the done… and that should be stressed by the priests and bishops)

My objection is more of the ‘do you know why you are doing that?’, since so many folx seem to do what they see certain others do… then others do what they see them do, and so on.

… but then, the ‘non-conformist’ wants to not do what is supposed to be done. So, you see people standing with hands held high when they hear ‘… lift them up to the Lord’… but they DON’T bow when we are doing the Creed and get to the ‘born of a Virgin Mary’.

Apryl, I agree 100% with you that these postures at mass should be guided by the priests and bishop. I kind of think its wonderful if someone is so cought up in the mass and the praise of God that they may feel a need to express themselves by some devout action, for example raising their arms and maybe even swaying them back and forth a little.It gets a bit much when others start copying them and then people start to think that the Church has sent down a ruling that Catholics everywhere should do it.This is exactly how the holding of hands during the Our Father began. People will argue that it is a sign of fellowship in the Catholic Church, NOOOO !!! The Sign ot fellowship in the Catholic Church is THE HOLY EUCHARIST !!! Pray it will always be.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

See, my objection with it isn’t based on it being ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ (although I think that if it’s wrong, it shouldn’t be the done… and that should be stressed by the priests and bishops)

My objection is more of the ‘do you know why you are doing that?’, since so many folx seem to do what they see certain others do… then others do what they see them do, and so on.

… but then, the ‘non-conformist’ wants to not do what is supposed to be done. So, you see people standing with hands held high when they hear ‘… lift them up to the Lord’… but they DON’T bow when we are doing the Creed and get to the ‘born of a Virgin Mary’.

Lol… we DO bow, probably because we are still actually reading the Missal (convert here!)

I have to admit I do not know why the Ourans posture. Why the priest does it, why the laity imitates it.

I’m sure someone more knowledgeable does.

 

[Apryl]

I kind of think its wonderful if someone is so cought up in the mass and the praise of God that they may feel a need to express themselves by some devout action, for example raising their arms and maybe even swaying them back and forth a little.It gets a bit much when others start copying them and then people start to think that the Church has sent down a ruling that Catholics everywhere should do it.This is exactly how the holding of hands during the Our Father began. People will argue that it is a sign of fellowship in the Catholic Church, NOOOO !!! The Sign ot fellowship in the Catholic Church is THE HOLY EUCHARIST !!! Pray it will always be.

Yeah, what you said!

Just imagine going to Mass at some Basilica, and it’s filled to the rafters, and people trying to ‘get to everyone’… You won’t do that physically. At least, hopefully, you won’t.

But… we are all ‘getting to everyone’ being there for the Mass, and in communion with one another (and the saints) as we prepare to receive the Body and Blood (today is Corpus Christi, after all) and we could never touch each other with our hands as deeply as we can in our hearts as we approach the Sacrament.

What gets me is that people who don’t know what the Communion is, what the Eucharist is, are trying to dilute it’s power or the benefit of it, and they are making out to be nothing more than Crackers and Juice and a chance to hang out.

I say, ‘no, it’s not a chance to hang out’, it’s us following the direct instructions of Christ that were spelled out rather explicitly in John 6 when we were told to each His flesh and drink His blood, and in Corinthians when we were reminded to not do so in an unworthy fashion.