Harry potter, a question for those who know about spiritual warfare

[Hildebrand]

SpiritIsWilling:

Your children will encounter the real world sooner or later, how will they react when they do?

You form your children in reality. You have them work young, teach them responsibilities, et al. But that is another discussion.

Of course children play and imagine. That is all apart of childhood and good for their growth.

And it not about “sheltering” children from the word “magic” or anything like that. I have no problem with children reading fantasy stories (Disney stories, Narnia, Lord of the Rings). Narnia contains “magic”. Lord of the Rings contains “magic”.

There is just a line some parents draw when it comes to a story who’s main character and all the main characters friends are learning to become witches and wizards.

 

[Liberalsaved]

Hildebrand:

Well said. I could not have said it any better.

I have never read the books, but have watched Harry Potter movies a few times. They are entertaining for adults and mature persons. I do not recommend them at all for very impressionable minds and for children who may be inclined or find the doing of witches and wizards personally attractive.

I myself would not risk Harry Potter with any children. Children and young adults (younger minors) are still in the soul-formative stage. There are far better avenues of entertainment for children.

I saw the first film before reading any of the books, and in the last fight was surprised the kids in the theater weren’t bawling.

 

[Liberalsaved]

SpiritIsWilling:

I’ve played Dungeons and Dragons. I play many role playing games.

My latest is a game called The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion.

I read an enormous amount of fantasy books. I love fantasy. It’s one of my favorite genres.

I think that is a parent’s option if they want their child/children to play/read these things. In my opinion, neither the Pope, nor anyone else, can command me to cease reading or cease playing something that, for me, is totally harmless.

I think it is absurd that some people will refuse to let their children partake in fantasy because it could ‘corrupt’ them. Why not allow them to read/play and explain to them that it is simply fiction and nothing real will ever come of it?

Your children will encounter the real world sooner or later, how will they react when they do?

This is a most excellent point. As much as many people of all religions and many people with NO religion would like to pretend, you can’t make your little darlings stay little darlings forever, and when they grow up and are telling everyone what they should and shouldn’t be reading/doing/watching/playing according to their own personal beleifs, they are going to have a very hard time living or working with anyone who doesn’t share those beleifs explicitly. This is a crucial handicap in a world that, despite the best efforts of many, became increasingly integrated and connected in the twentieth century, and is becoming more so every single year. The world is moving forward at an exponential rate, and to try and prevent any and all effects of that is not only like sending a tulip up against a bulldozer, it isn’t even beneficial. Certainly, we want to keep our children safe. But there is a huge difference between safe and ignorant.

 

[Melissa]

pfoos:

An interesting question to me is, if they are no big deal…why do so many Catholic’s get their claws out when someone mentions that maybe children shouldn’t be reading them?

Speaking for myself, what raises my hackles is simply that those opposed to the novels never just “mention that maybe children shouldn’t be reading them”, but argue rather heatedly that the novels are “demonic” or a “gateway into the occult” or the like–with no regard whatsoever for truth. They are willing to lie outright (for instance, one opponent put a speech of Voldemort into Harry’s mouth and then used the condemnation of that ‘speech by the hero’ as a justification for condemning the books), misrepresent (as with the case w/ then-Cardinal Ratzinger’s letter to an author), and a rather shocking (amongst adults) inability to discern the distinction between fact and fiction. It is the behavior that disregards truth (and unwillingness to cease spreading such falsehoods) by the HP opponents which disturbs me, not their disagreement with me regarding the suitability of the novels for my oldest son (middle son is not yet reading them, youngest children are not yet reading at all).

 

[slyboots]

Good point, Melissa others, about the ages at which a child should be allowed to read whatever material the parents (with good sense and values) decide.
I would certainly not want a child younger than adolescence to read the Potter books. Or Ambrose Bierce. Or Tolkein’s LOTR for that matter. I suspect it would be too frightening for them. Although The Hobbit might be ok for younger minds. I expect Narnia could be read to them. I read Oscar Wilde’s The Happy Prince and The Selfish Giant to mine several times. Hans Christian Anderson fired my own desire to read as a child.
My parents allowed me to read anything found in the public library. At that time the library was less likely to have materials totally unsuitable for children.
So I read Poe, Asimov, Bradbury, and other purveyers of highly imaginative fiction as a much younger reader.
But hopefully you parents are the best judges for your children. I bow to your love and concern for our young people.

 

[rocklobster]

I too play RPG-type video games (I’m a HUGE Final Fantasy fan). And when I was a child, I loved Thundercats, a cartoon that was brimming with magic. And guess what, I’m STILL CATHOLIC!

 

[Hildebrand]

Melissa:

Speaking for myself, what raises my hackles is simply that those opposed to the novels never just

“mention that maybe children shouldn’t be reading them”, but argue rather heatedly that the novels are “demonic” or a “gateway into the occult” or the like–with no regard whatsoever for truth. They are willing to lie outright (for instance, one opponent put a speech of Voldemort into Harry’s mouth and then used the condemnation of that ‘speech by the hero’ as a justification for condemning the books), misrepresent (as with the case w/ then-Cardinal Ratzinger’s letter to an author), and a rather shocking (amongst adults) inability to discern the distinction between fact and fiction. It is the behavior that disregards truth (and unwillingness to cease spreading such falsehoods) by the HP opponents which disturbs me, not their disagreement with me regarding the suitability of the novels for my oldest son (middle son is not yet reading them, youngest children are not yet reading at all).

I understand your concern. The only reason I enter Harry Potter debates is when Harry Potter defenders say there is no difference between Harry Potter and Narnia/Lord of the Rings.

With regard to your “gateway to the occult”… Lord of the Rings has been a “gateway to the occult” to a select few children who were probably devoid of a moral foundation. In these cases the children were probably “naturally” (for lack of a better word) inclined to “dark powers”(for lack of a better word) because…

While knowing that to be true, there is still a difference between HP & Narnia/LOTR. There are strong Christian elements in Narnia/LOTR. Defenders of HP can say there are strong moral elements and maybe some basic Christian elements. I still wouldn’t risk exposing my children to those books/movies.

 

[Hildebrand]

rocklobster:

I too play RPG-type video games (I’m a HUGE Final Fantasy fan). And when I was a child, I loved Thundercats, a cartoon that was brimming with magic. And guess what, I’m STILL CATHOLIC!

 

[illuminator]

You must guide the avenues to the sole. If you fill it with filth, you can expect the consequences. In eveybody it is different - they have different levels of sensitivity (just like alcohol - to alcoholics), however, generaly we must concentrate on what is heavenly and good - The bible says whatever things are good and pure and beautiful and holy, concentrate on these things.

 

[illuminator]

Have you ever seen a counterfeit 3 dollar bill. No because no one would believe it.

Same thing with evil. The Devil rarely tempts with pure unadulterated evil. He usually mixes it with good to confuse. So some people say - “oh the Chronicles of Narnia has Christian elements to it” or other things. SO WHAT!. Witches, devils, spells, warfare, - are these the things that God wants us to be polluting our minds with? If you want Christian elements - I think there are other things that you can concentrate on. Why do you think they call stuff on TV “Programming”

 

[Hildebrand]

Liberalsaved:

This is a most excellent point. As much as many people of all religions and many people with NO religion would like to pretend, you can’t make your little darlings stay little darlings forever, and when they grow up and are telling everyone what they should and shouldn’t be reading/doing/watching/playing according to their own personal beleifs, they are going to have a very hard time living or working with anyone who doesn’t share those beleifs explicitly. This is a crucial handicap in a world that, despite the best efforts of many, became increasingly integrated and connected in the twentieth century, and is becoming more so every single year. The world is moving forward at an exponential rate, and to try and prevent any and all effects of that is not only like sending a tulip up against a bulldozer, it isn’t even beneficial. Certainly, we want to keep our children safe. But there is a huge difference between safe and ignorant.

It does cut right to the chase. Now that HP is being read in some schools and many children request the books from the parents, the question is how do you respond in those cases. I find it prudent for parents to focus on the morals taught in the books.

I still hold I would not, as a parent, introduce the books and movies to my children.

 

[Hildebrand]

illuminator:

Same thing with evil. The Devil rarely tempts with pure unadulterated evil. He usually mixes it with good to confuse. So some people say - “oh the Chronicles of Narnia has Christian elements to it” or other things. SO WHAT!. Witches, devils, spells, warfare, - are these the things that God wants us to be polluting our minds with? If you want Christian elements - I think there are other things that you can concentrate on. Why do you think they call stuff on TV “Programming”

 

[Troy7]

slyboots:

If I banned Harry Potter from my home I would have to ban Narnia, Lord of the Rings, all of Grimm’s fairy tales, and Hans Christian Anderson, just for starters.
Then I would have to consider whether a child should be allowed to read about Greek and Roman myths…Hercules? Icarus? Midas? And legends of the West…King Arthur…Merlin? Beowolf?
Shakepeare? Pretty racy. Romeo and Juliet…suicide pacts?
And maybe our youngsters shouldn’t read Mark Twain as well…racism, satire, impious…The Diaries of Adam and Eve !!! The Good Little Boy!! Forget about Huck Finn!
Omigosh.
Eventually Hawthorne, Washington Irving, Poe, Bierce, Blackwood, Machen…Bradbury, Heinlein, Asimov… Star Wars…all gone.
The puritans of old would be so proud.
I don’t think so. Harry Potter stays on my library shelf. as do all these authors and stories. They wait for my grandchildren and Godchildren’s enjoyment. And hopefully they will discuss what they read with me and others. The imagination is a terrible thing to waste.
No Farenheit 451 in my future if I can help it.
PS thanks mucho for the escapist link. It’s hysterical.

True progressive thinking and enlightened arguing at its best! I applaud your sensibilities and share them in this matter.

 

[illuminator]

Unfortunetly the slippery slope can also go the other way. Harry Potter → Helter Skelter → Dungeons and Dragons → etc. As a parent you represent God to your children. Read the first five books of the Bible and see what God had to do for the other children (the children of Isreal) when they were “growing up” in light. He forbade them from practicing necromancy etc. because he knew where this would lead. May want to take a page out of that book.

 

[Troy7]

bones_IV:

The holy father said that those books prevert the conscience before it has the chance to grow.

And we all know the BIBLE hasnt perverted peoples outlooks when it comes to quoting OT verses to justify hating fags and killing people, etc

ANY book can warp your mind even the bible. Potter is the least of this worlds worries. Hogwarts isnt at war with Christianity, Isam is.

 

[Troy7]

Liberalsaved:

This is a most excellent point. As much as many people of all religions and many people with NO religion would like to pretend, you can’t make your little darlings stay little darlings forever, and when they grow up and are telling everyone what they should and shouldn’t be reading/doing/watching/playing according to their own personal beleifs, they are going to have a very hard time living or working with anyone who doesn’t share those beleifs explicitly. This is a crucial handicap in a world that, despite the best efforts of many, became increasingly integrated and connected in the twentieth century, and is becoming more so every single year. The world is moving forward at an exponential rate, and to try and prevent any and all effects of that is not only like sending a tulip up against a bulldozer, it isn’t even beneficial. Certainly, we want to keep our children safe. But there is a huge difference between safe and ignorant.

:clapping:

 

[illuminator]

Ever heard of living in the world but not **of ** the world? Don’t have to know it to know **of ** it.

 

[SpiritIsWilling]

illuminator:

Unfortunetly the slippery slope can also go the other way. Harry Potter → Helter Skelter → Dungeons and Dragons → etc.

I find this particularly offensive, and it appears to me that **you **should most likely not read Harry Potter because it appears that you’re unable to discern Harry Potter from Charles Manson.

I am truly sick and tired of this.

 

[rocklobster]

SpiritIsWilling:

I find this particularly offensive, and it appears to me that **you **should most likely not read Harry Potter because it appears that you’re unable to discern Harry Potter from Charles Manson.

I am truly sick and tired of this.

If you think that’s crazy, consider this: There’s a website that’s down now that actually connected Harry Potter to, of all things, Pokemon. To quote Dave Barry, “I swear I am not making this up.”

 

[Liberalsaved]

illuminator:

Unfortunetly the slippery slope can also go the other way. Harry Potter → Helter Skelter → Dungeons and Dragons → etc. As a parent you represent God to your children. Read the first five books of the Bible and see what God had to do for the other children (the children of Isreal) when they were “growing up” in light. He forbade them from practicing necromancy etc. because he knew where this would lead. May want to take a page out of that book.

I guess if I read a book about cults, it makes me a cultist. I gotta watch out for that.