Harry Potter and the Holy Shroud of Turin

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There is a new short documentary called A Grave Injustice about the Shroud of Turin that has been released by David Rolfe. The narrator of the film is James Phillips who played Fred Weasley in the Harry Potter films. Watch it and then do your best to help promote it. You can see it here: www.shroudenigma.com
:cool:
 
I wonder if many Christians are going to refuse to see this because of the Harry Potter connection.:rolleyes:
 
**This new film brings up the discredited “invalid sample” theory for the strange C-14 dating for the Shroud.
In 2002 the Shroud was removed from its backing cloth, and textile experts closely examined the corner where the C-14 sample was taken from and found no evidence of a “reweave.”
Other “invalid sample” theories have also been disproven.

The fact of the matter is that nowhere on the Shroud of Turin will anyone be able to find a linen sample that will carbon date to the 1st century.
What will be found are samples that date to be younger than what was indicated in 1988, in fact, very much younger.
For all of its research, this film failed to mention that two of the dates obtained by the radiocarbon labs in 1988 were thrown out, discarded, as “outliers,” indicating an age of only 540 years for the Shroud.
These dates did not fit well enough to fit into the “95% certainly” goal that these labs were aiming for.
Furthermore, and very strangely, the pieces of the C-14 sample were that farther from the edge, i.e. closer to the main body, were the ones that dated the youngest.

The estimated C-14 date for a Shroud sample that might be taken from the the center of the dorsal image is 8400 AD.

**
 
8400 AD.
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You mean the body-image contains more C14 than currently living matter?

Wouldn’t that prove a process inconsistent with Mediaeval painting?

ICXC NIKA
 
GEddie said:
You mean the body-image contains more C14 than currently living matter?

Wouldn’t that prove a process inconsistent with Mediaeval painting?

ICXC NIKA
Click to expand...
That is correct on both counts.
Ref: TEST THE SHROUD, Antonacci, 2015
 
cornbread_r2 said:
My underlining. Nothing has been “proven”. This is mere conjecture.
Click to expand...
**Many things have actually been proven about the Shroud of Turin:
The blood markings consist of human blood.
The image is not composed of paint or ink.
The body represented therein is a human body in a state of rigor mortis.
The dirt is from the foot, knees, and nose is a type of travertine aragonite that has only been found in Jerusalem.
The pollen found on the linen indicates that the linen spent time in Palestine and Turkey.
The facial characteristics are consistent with images of Jesus dating from the sixth century.
The man depicted on the linen suffered death by crucifixion and was beaten by a Roman flagellum prior to that.
The STURP scientific examination did not find any evidence that would preclude this linen cloth from being the actual burial cloth of Jesus.

The only real question remaining is not “is the 1988 C-14 dating of the Shroud invalid,” but rather exactly why was it so strange.
The Shroud’s sister cloth, the Sudarium of Oviedo dates historically to about 700 A.D. and it’s C-14 dating comes out to that time period.
Therefore any explanation of the Shroud’s strange dating also has to account for the anomalous dating of the Sudarium as well.

The Historically Consistent Hypothesis takes into account the special nature of the Man that was buried within the Shroud.
It states that when this Body disappeared (and it did vanish from this world) a very small percentage of that Body did not exit this dimension, but, instead, dissolved into its elemental nuclear particles: protons and neutrons.
The protons caused the formation of the image while the thermal neutron irradiation had a preservative effect on the linen and also caused some of the nitrogen therein to be converted into carbon 14.
The nearby sudarium would have also been affected by this neutron flux, but to a lesser extent.

“Nuclear engineer, Robert Rucker, has made detailed calculations to compute the age changes as a function of location on the Shroud: …the location at the center of the Man’s back would [be predicted to have] the largest radiocarbon age change; dating into the future to 8400 A.D.”
(TEST THE SHROUD, PG 339)
**

testtheshroudonline.com/
 
Look up the Pollen analysis on the Shroud.

It has pollen native to Jerusalem 2016 years ago, and pollen that would have been from flowers used at a Jewish funeral.

Also, the blood type is AB, of a man who died under.great anguish because it is ultra red,
And also, the blood type matches the blood type of the Eucharistic Miracle of Laciano (where the Eucharist turned into actual flesh and blood of Jesus, and remained incorrupt, proven blood of a man, from the heart tissue. And identical as the same blood of the same person when compared to another Eucharistic Miracle that took place 500 years after Laciano,
 
Also, the substance that makes the image of the man (not.the blood), is not of earth, is not on the scientific periodic table, but is the exact same substance as what the image on the Tilma Guadalupe Shroud,

Furthermore, this image could only have been caused by an immense light as powerful as radiation,
Scientists have recently said, the Heavenly light.that shone through Jesus at the moment of the Resurrection, that the Shroud is proof of this 2016 years ago
 
Furthermore, the scientific pollen analysis on the Shroud has pollen tracing the Shroud to all the places and dates that historians have said the Shroud was hidden in the last 2016 years. Pollen from the specific countries and regions exactly at the dates historians placed the Shroud as hidden in those countries
 
I’ve got to admit, the title of this thread really had me wondering. 😉
 
MaryHelp777 said:
Furthermore, the scientific pollen analysis on the Shroud has pollen tracing the Shroud to all the places and dates that historians have said the Shroud was hidden in the last 2016 years. Pollen from the specific countries and regions exactly at the dates historians placed the Shroud as hidden in those countries
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Can you provide a source for any of these claims? I’d be especially interested in sources addressing the claim that the TS pollen has been dated to any specific time periods. TIA
 
cornbread_r2 said:
Can you provide a source for any of these claims? I’d be especially interested in sources addressing the claim that the TS pollen has been dated to any specific time periods. TIA
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**Pollen that has been retrieved from the Shroud is obviously too minute to be carbon dated. Most books about the Shroud will have a section detailing its pollen studies.
In THE SHROUD, Wilson, 2010, pg 63, you will find a chart of the various European and Middle East pollens that have been found.
The Palestinian pollens are of the insect-born types which means that, unless a swarm of bees somehow landed on the Shroud, the flowers themselves had to have been placed in contact with it.

Since the flowers that originated the Palestinian pollen would have been placed next to the Corpse prior to its disappearance, their pollens must have been subjected to the same thermal neutron flux as was the Shroud.
Some of that pollen’s nitrogen would have been converted to carbon 14 by the thermal neutron bombardment.
Therefore these particular pollens would not date to the first century even if they could be C-14 dated. **
 
**According to Mr. Antonacci and his associate, Professor Rucker, the Historically Consistent Hypothesis is very testable, and they very much want such tests to be done.
If you don’t have Mark’s latest book and are at all interested in the Shroud, then I would recommend that you get it.
While I have found this book to be a bit belabored about Mark’s testing agenda, it does contain lots of relevant information that you will not find anywhere else. **

testtheshroudonline.com/
 
jeffrey_erwin said:
**According to Mr. Antonacci and his associate, Professor Rucker, the Historically Consistent Hypothesis is very testable, and they very much want such tests to be done.
If you don’t have Mark’s latest book and are at all interested in the Shroud, then I would recommend that you get it.
While I have found this book to be a bit belabored about Mark’s testing agenda, it does contain lots of relevant information that you will not find anywhere else. **

testtheshroudonline.com/
Click to expand...
As I understand it, the HCP hinges on an alleged atomic reaction that occurred when Jesus disappeared from tomb. Since that was an event that will never occur again, I’m not seeing how their “hypothesis” can ever be tested.

In addition, the authors state that the HCP is consistent with the gospel accounts of the resurrection. I’m unaware of any gospel account that holds that Jesus’s body disappeared from inside the tomb to be rematerialized outside of it, as the HCP authors claim. IIRC, they all reference the stone being rolled away from the tomb’s entrance, implying that Jesus walked out of the tomb.

While the HCP is certainly creative, at this juncture, it seems to just be an ad hoc way to negate the C14 dating of the TS without having to embark on a futile effort to discredit the science of the radio-carbon dating process.
 
**So they went and made the sepulcher secure, putting seals on the stone and mounting a guard.

…the Angel of the Lord, descending from Heaven, came and rolled the stone away and sat on it. …He said to the women, “…He is not here, for He has risen as He said He would. Come and see the place where He lay…”

The soldiers took the money and carried out their instructions, and to this day that is the story among Jews.**

The Gospel of Matthew is explicitly states that our Lord’s tomb was blockaded, sealed, and guarded, and that it remained so until opened in front of witnesses by Divine intervention.

**Have you ever put a bandage on an injury and then tried to remove it the next day? That can be an uncomfortable experience as the clotted blood from your injury adheres to both your skin and the bandage.
There will be some tearing of the cloth fibers of the bandage as you pull it away.
The Shroud is replete with blood stains. The STRuP scientists examined these with their microscopes and found no places where the linen fibers had been torn or even disturbed in any way.
The only way that this could have happened is if our Lord’s Body vanished from the inside of His burial shroud.

In his book, Mr. Antonacci details exactly how the HCP can be proven by additional testing at the atomic level. This involves testing for radioactive isotopes of chlorine and calcium.
Furthermore, the simple radiocarbon dating of a Shroud sample from a central image area will produce a “future” date (predicted to be up to 8400 AD), and that in itself will be confirmation of the HCH.

**
 
jeffrey_erwin said:
**This new film brings up the discredited “invalid sample” theory for the strange C-14 dating for the Shroud.
In 2002 the Shroud was removed from its backing cloth, and textile experts closely examined the corner where the C-14 sample was taken from and found no evidence of a “reweave.”
Other “invalid sample” theories have also been disproven.

The fact of the matter is that nowhere on the Shroud of Turin will anyone be able to find a linen sample that will carbon date to the 1st century.
What will be found are samples that date to be younger than what was indicated in 1988, in fact, very much younger.
For all of its research, this film failed to mention that two of the dates obtained by the radiocarbon labs in 1988 were thrown out, discarded, as “outliers,” indicating an age of only 540 years for the Shroud.
These dates did not fit well enough to fit into the “95% certainly” goal that these labs were aiming for.
Furthermore, and very strangely, the pieces of the C-14 sample were that farther from the edge, i.e. closer to the main body, were the ones that dated the youngest.

The estimated C-14 date for a Shroud sample that might be taken from the the center of the dorsal image is 8400 AD.

**
Click to expand...
So the shourd actually won’t be made for over another six thousand years that’s remarkable
How would you know what the carbon dating of the interior of the cloth would be if samples were only taken from the edge.Just curious.The film is right about the Acedemic’s preoccupation with the shroud . You guys are completly intimidated by a piece of cloth to the point of it being hilarious.
This cloth in itself is a remarkable thing calling it a a fake and forgery is proposperous
That’s like calling the Mona Lisa a fraud because it’s really only a picture.
Its either one of the greatest masterpieces of religious art or a burial cloth
Either way it should be shown respect especially one who claims to be a Christain,
 
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