Harry Potter Books

[Lazerlike42]

***Rome’s chief excorcist warns parents against Harry Potter

***Rome’s official exorcist, Fr Gabriele Amorth, has warned parents against J.K. Rowling’s Harry Potter books, suggesting that Satan is behind the works.

Fr Amorth, who is also the president of the International Association of Exorcists, told the Italian ANSA news agency, Rev. Amorth said “Behind Harry Potter hides the signature of the king of the darkness, the devil.”

He said that Rowling’s books contain innumerable positive references to magic, “the satanic art”. Amorth noted that the books attempt to make a false distinction between black and white magic, when in fact, the distinction “does not exist, because magic is always a turn to the devil.”

In the interview which was published in papers across Europe, Fr Amorth also criticised the disordered morality presented in Rowling’s works, noting that they suggest that rules can be contravened and lying is justified when they work to one’s benefit.

My question is, why are so many Catholics willing to spend a tremendous amount of time and energy defending books and movies that take you AWAY FROM GOD. None of these books and movies would lead a child to JESUS.

Remember that Satan uses all his time trying to get you to look away from the FACE OF GOD.

God Bless our HOLY FATHER, Benedict XVI

I am not able to judge matter of factly what is in the heary of Father Amorth. Only God can do that. However, I must make a judgement as to whether I believe he is a reliable judge of things, including Harry Potter. I must judge that I would not put my faith in this man. He has stated multiple times that his first exorcism was in 1986. He has also stated on one occasion that he has performed 30,000 exorcisms in his life, and on another occasion he provided a number of 50,000 (these two occasions were a few years apart at the very most). Taking his conservative figure of 30,000, this would require the man to have performed over 9 exorcisms a day every day since his first. It is very, very rare for a diocese to have more than a dozen exorcisms done a year. In fact, as Fr. Amorth has said himself, many exorcisms actually take months to complete. Given all of this information, it is incredibly unlikely that Fr. Amorth is being honest. He may be seeking to sensationalize this out of personal desire to make the front page. He may be doing so for the less sinister purpose of trying to sensationalize exorcisms for the sake of reminding people that Satan still exists. He may have another motive all together. Only God knows, and I certainly believe that whatever intention the man has it is good. Nevertheless, I cannot take any of his words without a very, very large grain of salt. He seems to be finding Satan everywhere, even where he is not. It is no surprise then that he finds him in Harry Potter. The likelihood that he is really there, at least based on Fr. Amorth’s words, is greatly diminished given that it is finding a place where Father Amorth thinks Satan is not that would be unusual.

 

[mumto5]

Well, I just asked my kids what language Harry Potter’s spells are in and got told ‘Latin’ so they know too. We did a unit study on HP for homeschooling way back when there were only two books out. It was lots of fun.

There is much good to learn from Harry Potter. Lessons of loyalty, the power of love, sacrifical love, generosity. Those who do the negative things such as bullying are the ‘bad children’. The noble choice is clearly good over evil.

In my experience, those who make the most noise about how evil Harry Potter is have never even picked up a book and glanced at it. They have claimed they don’t have to because they know from what they have heard about it that it must be bad.

Personally, I love Harry Potter books and have read all six. I can’t wait for the next movie Besides, I still think Harry must have been baptised. He has a godfather - or had :crying:

 

[surfinpure]

Lazerlike42:

This is true. However the merits of Harry Potter should not be judged on the merits of the parents of those reading it. If we are to judge Harry Potter to be bad simply because few parents have/take the time to read it with their children or to educate their children, then we must also judge the Bible itself as bad on the same basis. After all, there are things in the Bible far, far worse than anything in Harry Potter, and there are things in the Bible that the uneducated could very easily misread and through their application do great harm and/or sin. (2 Pet. 3:16) This is not to say that Harry Potter has the same positive merits as the Bible were each to be read correcty, although it does contain some. Nevertheless, as an interesting piece of fiction it should not be condemned merely because it could be misused. So could a kitcen knife.

Believe it or not, I agree with you. If I thought the works were inherently evil, I would have certainly stated so in my first post. That is not, however, my point. Far from it. All I am saying, and I do mean all, is that young children - say, grade school age - should only be introduced to these stories with the supervision of a parent. A small child cannot understand unless it is explained to him that it’s okay for Harry to go around casting spells, but it’s not okay for him or her to do the same thing. There is something very tempting about magic to children – instant gratification. Wave your wand, and poof your nemesis has a pig’s tail growing out his rear. What youth wouldn’t want a power like that?

Furthermore, while there is much positive to be found in the stories (please do not forget that I have said this), there are other negative elements, such as the lesson that the end justifies the means. Harry and his friends regularly break Hogwarts’ rules - it seems to be their modus operandi - and yet they are perpetually rewarded for doing so. What does Junior learn (unless Mommy or Daddy are there to point out otherwise)? Why, that he can disobey authority as long as it’s for any good reason. A dangerous lesson for a six-year-old to learn? You bet.

So I will once again state my thesis: children should read these books with adults who can guide them through thoughtful discussion. Otherwise they are left alone and vulnerable to draw their own conclusions about what behavior is acceptable and good. And I will point out that this is true concerning nearly all media – not merely Harry Potter.

 

[mjdonnelly]

Yours would no doubt be in the vast minority, as would all those whose parents take the time to view/read along and explain and instruct.

That is why the movies are rated PG by the industry, and for adults by the USCCB. If kids start believing in the witchcraft aspect, it is the fault of the parents. Parents today too often try to shift the blame to others and ignore their own responsibility.

 

[pfoos]

Lazerlike42:

I am not able to judge matter of factly what is in the heary of Father Amorth. Only God can do that. However, I must make a judgement as to whether I believe he is a reliable judge of things, including Harry Potter. I must judge that I would not put my faith in this man. He has stated multiple times that his first exorcism was in 1986. He has also stated on one occasion that he has performed 30,000 exorcisms in his life, and on another occasion he provided a number of 50,000 (these two occasions were a few years apart at the very most). Taking his conservative figure of 30,000, this would require the man to have performed over 9 exorcisms a day every day since his first. It is very, very rare for a diocese to have more than a dozen exorcisms done a year. In fact, as Fr. Amorth has said himself, many exorcisms actually take months to complete. Given all of this information, it is incredibly unlikely that Fr. Amorth is being honest. He may be seeking to sensationalize this out of personal desire to make the front page. He may be doing so for the less sinister purpose of trying to sensationalize exorcisms for the sake of reminding people that Satan still exists. He may have another motive all together. Only God knows, and I certainly believe that whatever intention the man has it is good. Nevertheless, I cannot take any of his words without a very, very large grain of salt. He seems to be finding Satan everywhere, even where he is not. It is no surprise then that he finds him in Harry Potter. The likelihood that he is really there, at least based on Fr. Amorth’s words, is greatly diminished given that it is finding a place where Father Amorth thinks Satan is not that would be unusual.

Wow, that’s the best you can do to refute Fr Amorth’s work? Actually, according to Fr Amorth, the average exorcism consists of a two or three minute prayer. Since the “Linda Blair” type exorcisms are EXTREMELY rare. So at 3 minutes each, it would only take about 104 days to complete 50,000 exorcisms. 104 days out of the 19 years he has been the chief exorcist (he was the assistant to the exorcist in Rome for many years before that) one would have to say he has been slacking!

But, if the best you can do to defend the Harry Potter books is to sling mud at Rome’s exorcist, I am not impressed.

 

[Shiann]

pfoos:

Wow, that’s the best you can do to refute Fr Amorth’s work? Actually, according to Fr Amorth, the average exorcism consists of a two or three minute prayer. Since the “Linda Blair” type exorcisms are EXTREMELY rare. So at 3 minutes each, it would only take about 104 days to complete 50,000 exorcisms. 104 days out of the 19 years he has been the chief exorcist (he was the assistant to the exorcist in Rome for many years before that) one would have to say he has been slacking!

But, if the best you can do to defend the Harry Potter books is to sling mud at Rome’s exorcist, I am not impressed.

While I certainly respect Fr. Amorth for his opinion, I also respect the other men of the cloth who have no such problem with Harry Potter. I can provide you with a number of references where these priests have condoned HP and have enjoyed the stories themselves.

So that brings us back to the point where we all agree that parents have the ultimate responsibility for discerning wether these books are appropriate for their children.

 

[mjdonnelly]

Shiann:

While I certainly respect Fr. Amorth for his opinion, I also respect the other men of the cloth who have no such problem with Harry Potter. I can provide you with a number of references where these priests have condoned HP and have enjoyed the stories themselves.

Exactly, there are no infallible teachings on HP, just opinions. I’m not discounting Fr. Amorth’s expertise, but I wonder if he has read the books. Also, people will see evil in something because they want to see it there, even if it doesn’t exist. It can be really hard to make unbiased decisions once you’ve heard of the topic from the news, etc.

 

[surfinpure]

mjdonnelly:

Exactly, there are no infallible teachings on HP, just opinions. I’m not discounting Fr. Amorth’s expertise, but I wonder if he has read the books. Also, people will see evil in something because they want to see it there, even if it doesn’t exist.

A good point. With no disrespect at all to Fr. Armoth, I have to wonder what he would have to say about the use of magic and mythology used by the great C.S. Lewis in many of his works of fiction. In Narnia, of course, there is a great deal of “magic.” In Till We Have Faces Lewis revisits myths of Greek gods and goddesses. And in That Hideous Strength we see the resurrection of Merlin the Druid (of Camelot fame).

While none of these compares in form to Harry Potter, still, some conservatives (particularly evangelicals) view any reference to “magic” to be an immediate link to the Evil One.

 

[amateurthomist]

pfoos:

Wow, that’s the best you can do to refute Fr Amorth’s work? Actually, according to Fr Amorth, the average exorcism consists of a two or three minute prayer. Since the “Linda Blair” type exorcisms are EXTREMELY rare. So at 3 minutes each, it would only take about 104 days to complete 50,000 exorcisms. 104 days out of the 19 years he has been the chief exorcist (he was the assistant to the exorcist in Rome for many years before that) one would have to say he has been slacking!

But, if the best you can do to defend the Harry Potter books is to sling mud at Rome’s exorcist, I am not impressed.

Just a question. Are we required as Catholics to believe that demonic possession actually exists? I am not asking if we are required to believe that demonic powers exist. I know we are. But it seems to me that much (if not all) of what ancient peoples considered demonic possession is really just mental illness, epilepsy, and so forth.

Personally, I don’t believe that “magic” exists at all and so while it is certainly a sin to actually practice the occult and I would never do it (it is idolatry) I do not believe that people really conjur up spirits or talk to the dead or move objects around in the air. I do not believe in ESP, clairavoiance, psychics, etc. Perhaps I’m too rationalistic.

 

[surfinpure]

amateurthomist:

Just a question. Are we required as Catholics to believe that demonic possession actually exists? I am not asking if we are required to believe that demonic powers exist. I know we are. But it seems to me that much (if not all) of what ancient peoples considered demonic possession is really just mental illness, epilepsy, and so forth.

Don’t forget Scripture – Jesus Himself cast out demons, and so did the Apostles.

 

[the_nuge]

The following response may contain spoiler material if you haven’t read book 6 "The Half Blood Prince"

Chazemataz:

I am a big fan of Harry Potter. … Well, what do you think? For or against Harry Potter?

I too have read all of the Harry Potter books. And I enjoy them. However, I have objections to my kids reading them. Here are my reasons why:

First let me say that it’s not the “magic” the “witches” or the “wizards”. It has to do with Harry and the increasingly dark tone of the novels.

There is no redemption in the Harry Potter books. There is only rivalry and revenge. Harry to me seems to be not about justice but about getting even. And Harry is always right to do what he does, no matter what rules are broken, and no matter who gets hurt. All authority in the books (including, ultimately, Dumbledore) is wrong. The trust Dumbledore had was proven misguided and the one character that could have provided Rowling with a theme of redemption and forgiveness has been proven evil after all. These “themes” I can handle and digest properly. I don’t think my kids can, at least not until they are older.

Yet it is a darn good yarn, as they say. I believe this is what the Holy Father means by “those are subtle seductions, which act unnoticed and by this deeply distort Christianity in the soul, before it can grow properly.” which is all he said (in a private letter mind you) about the Harry Potter novels.

Compare this series to Lord of the Rings, where there is sacrafice, honor, selflessness and redemption. “I will carry this burden, though I don’t know the way,” Frodo says. This is the kind of stuff I want a young developing Christian mind reading. Not “If we don’t win, at least Hufflepuff can keep the cup from Slytherin”

 

[Mot_Juste]

The following response may contain spoiler material if you haven’t read book 6 "The Half Blood Prince"

the_nuge:

There is no redemption in the Harry Potter books. There is only rivalry and revenge. Harry to me seems to be not about justice but about getting even. And Harry is always right to do what he does, no matter what rules are broken, and no matter who gets hurt. All authority in the books (including, ultimately, Dumbledore) is wrong. The trust Dumbledore had was proven misguided and the one character that could have provided Rowling with a theme of redemption and forgiveness has been proven evil after all. These “themes” I can handle and digest properly. I don’t think my kids can, at least not until they are older.

I pretty much agree with this. Books 5 and 6, particularly, are dark and the main characters have some very unpleasant moments. The only defense I can offer is to wait for the conclusion of the series and see if these problems are resolved. This series is about growing up, and it includes some of the uglier growing pains that kids go through. I am hoping that in the end we will see redemption, maturity, a meaningful triumph of love over evil, as well as Harry’s own acknowledgement of his many flaws, such as you have mentioned.

–Bill

 

[surfinpure]

Mot Juste:

I pretty much agree with this. Books 5 and 6, particularly, are dark and the main characters have some very unpleasant moments. The only defense I can offer is to wait for the conclusion of the series and see if these problems are resolved. This series is about growing up, and it includes some of the uglier growing pains that kids go through. I am hoping that in the end we will see redemption, maturity, a meaningful triumph of love over evil, as well as Harry’s own acknowledgement of his many flaws, such as you have mentioned.

–Bill

I’m also reserving judgment on the entire series until it is completed. A pastor’s wife I know claims to have heard that there is a “Christ” figure in the end. I hope this is true. How many books will there be in total? Seven?

 

[wisdom_3_5]

surf(name removed by moderator)ure:

I’m also reserving judgment on the entire series until it is completed. A pastor’s wife I know claims to have heard that there is a “Christ” figure in the end. I hope this is true. How many books will there be in total? Seven?

There will be seven total.

BOOK SIX SPOILER WARNING BELOW:

I have to disagree about the books not showing themes of redemption and forgiveness. Take book 3 (Prizoner of Azkaban), Harry starts out not able to conrol his emotions, causing his aunt to “blow up”, when she insults his parents. By the end of the book Harry has changed. He meets and controls the fate of the person who betrayed his parents, a betrayal that ended in their deaths. What does Harry do? He doesn’t kill him or call the dementors in to take his soul away. He wants justice, not more murder, not revenge.

Now at the end of HBP Harry witnesses the death of someone whom he is very close to. Harry’s not going to seek out the murderer, but if he crosses his path too bad for him. I expect there will be forgiveness and redemption for the murderer, but anything can happen. So, while its fun to speculate in what will happen we can only wait until the work is complete before we cam make a final judgement on it.

 

[pfoos]

amateurthomist:

Just a question. Are we required as Catholics to believe that demonic possession actually exists? I am not asking if we are required to believe that demonic powers exist. I know we are. But it seems to me that much (if not all) of what ancient peoples considered demonic possession is really just mental illness, epilepsy, and so forth.

Personally, I don’t believe that “magic” exists at all and so while it is certainly a sin to actually practice the occult and I would never do it (it is idolatry) I do not believe that people really conjur up spirits or talk to the dead or move objects around in the air. I do not believe in ESP, clairavoiance, psychics, etc. Perhaps I’m too rationalistic.

You are required as Catholics to believe the Evil One exists and that there exists an unseen spirtual battle for one’s soul which may include demonic oppression and possession, although rare. Read the catechism of the Catholic Church. Read Sacred Scripture. Our battles are between Principalities and Powers. Know what our enemy is capable of with God’s permission and cling to Our Lady!

Para. 1673: When the Church asks publicly and authoritatively in the name of Jesus Christ that a person or object be protected against the power of the Evil One and withdrawn from his dominion, it is called exorcism. . . . Exorcism is directed at the expulsion of demons or to the liberation from demonic possession through the spiritual authority which Jesus entrusted to his Church. Illness, especially psychological illness, is a very different matter; treating this is the concern of medical science. Therefore, before an exorcism is performed, it is important to ascertain that one is dealing with the presence of the Evil One, and not an illness (Cf. CIC, can. 1172).

[395](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/395.htm’) The power of Satan is, nonetheless, not infinite. He is only a creature, powerful from the fact that he is pure spirit, but still a creature. He cannot prevent the building up of God’s reign. Although Satan may act in the world out of hatred for God and his kingdom in Christ Jesus, and although his action may cause grave injuries - of a spiritual nature and, indirectly, even of a physical nature- to each man and to society, the action is permitted by divine providence which with strength and gentleness guides human and cosmic history. It is a great mystery that providence should permit diabolical activity, but “we know that in everything God works for good with those who love him.”

 

[the_nuge]

BOOK SIX SPOILER WARNING BELOW:
wisdom 3:5:

There will be seven total.
I have to disagree about the books not showing themes of redemption and forgiveness. He meets and controls the fate of the person who betrayed his parents, a betrayal that ended in their deaths. What does Harry do? He doesn’t kill him or call the dementors in to take his soul away. He wants justice, not more murder, not revenge.

Pettigrew? Boy! I read that different. He was too busy saving Sirius to go after Pettigrew after he discovered who he was. Call the dementors? The dementors obviously had a thing against Harry and he them… he’d never “call” them.
wisdom 3:5:

.
Now at the end of HBP Harry witnesses the death of someone whom he is very close to. Harry’s not going to seek out the murderer.

What?!? as soon as Dumbledore releases him he makes a b-line for the murderer, only stopping to help his “friends” when a death eater gets in his way! And he’d have killed him too! Re-read the curses he’s trying to use on him! Did we read the same book?

 

[Shiann]

BOOK SIX SPOILER WARNING BELOW:
Pettigrew? Boy! I read that different. He was too busy saving Sirius to go after Pettigrew after he discovered who he was. Call the dementors? The dementors obviously had a thing against Harry and he them… he’d never “call” them.

Harry specifically told Lupin and Sirius to not kill Pettigrew- when they were in the Shrieking Shack. Harry wanted Peter to be judged and sent to Azkaban.

What?!? as soon as Dumbledore releases him he makes a b-line for the murderer, only stopping to help his “friends” when a death eater gets in his way! And he’d have killed him too! Re-read the curses he’s trying to use on him! Did we read the same book?

I’ll comment on this portion later this afternoon…

 

[Digitonomy]

pfoos, can you please provide a citation/link for the article that you copied in post 19?

 

[the_nuge]

pfoos, can you please provide a citation/link for the article that you copied in post 19?

cathtelecom.com/news/201/17.php

I can’t find citations from the “Italian ANSA news agency” he made the comments to but maybe they’re in Italian?

 

[Shiann]

pfoos, can you please provide a citation/link for the article that you copied in post 19?

I found it here:

lifesite.net/ldn/2002/jan/020102.html#2

Another LifeSite News item. It is the second article for this date, and the links cited at the end of the article are broken.