Harry Potter?.......( Is it bad?)

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So the means justifies the ends? The sentiments you admire can be expressed without recourse to using magic as a literary device.

The ultimate overall theme of Harry Potter is what you say it is, subjective as it is for all readers.

That’s why young minds have to be protected. Do we want to raise saints? Are we practising Catholics?

Jesus told us the doorway to heaven is very narrow. You must think that He was exaggerating.
 
Catholicwife32 said:
Magic isn’t real per se. Demons are real though and can prey upon our superstitions. The occult is dangerous regardless of whether a demon decides to be involved or not.
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What is the power that demons use then if you don’t like to call it magic because you think magic doesn’t exist?

Some people have performed miracles but often make it plainly understood that the power is God’s not theirs, they didn’t perform the miracle God did, they had no power except the ability to pray that God perform the requested miracle.

If you are confused about what you beleive you might want to take care in what you read, which is my whole point.
 
We should be wary of all these things.

Our minds retain this information regardless of how clever we think we are. These memories can cause us to be confused as to what is right and wrong.

Fighting evil is fine, death if necessary, like St Kolbe. We’re not talking about the crusades. Jesus told us to love our enemies.
 
The Catechism says

Characteristics of the People of God

782 The People of God is marked by characteristics that clearly distinguish it from all other religious, ethnic, political, or cultural groups found in history:
  • It is the People of God : God is not the property of any one people. But he acquired a people for himself from those who previously were not a people: "a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation."202
  • One becomes a member of this people not by a physical birth, but by being “born anew,” a birth "of water and the Spirit,"203 that is, by faith in Christ, and Baptism.
  • This People has for its Head Jesus the Christ (the anointed, the Messiah). Because the same anointing, the Holy Spirit, flows from the head into the body, this is “the messianic people.”
  • “The status of this people is that of the dignity and freedom of the sons of God, in whose hearts the Holy Spirit dwells as in a temple.”
  • "Its law is the new commandment to love as Christ loved us."204 This is the “new” law of the Holy Spirit.205
  • Its mission is to be salt of the earth and light of the world.206 This people is “a most sure seed of unity, hope, and salvation for the whole human race.”
  • Its destiny , finally, "is the Kingdom of God which has been begun by God himself on earth and which must be further extended until it has been brought to perfection by him at the end of time."207
No mention of compromise, or only if it’s not too inconvenient you’ll notice.
 
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adgloriam said:
The HP book I’m reading starts with a multiple homicide, quite the bit of children’s literature - some may deem that as immoral.
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How is that in anyway relevant to a discussion of fictional magic?
 
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We are discussing Harry Potter books and whether they are bad. The comment was relevant due to that.
 
This is why I’m persisting with this debate.
It’s not personal other than I personally feel that the Body of Christ needs all of us to be extremely careful as to what ideas we entertain. And what we teach and allow others to teach to our children.

If there is little difference between us and unbelievers what are we but clashing cymbals.

HP and the like are Trojan horses.
 
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I wouldn’t put it past the demons that Fr. Ripperger encounters to mention Harry Potter as the opening for possession for the sole purpose that if he tells people, the world will label him a kook.
 
I agree, that does seem to be a possibility.

Also Sin is disguised often within the sentiment of compromise.
 
You provided a link which proved my point, not yours.
2117 All practices of magic or sorcery , by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion.
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From the etymology dictionary
Occult

1530s, “secret, not divulged,” from Middle French occulte and directly from Latin occultus “hidden, concealed, secret,” past participle of occulere “cover over, conceal,” from assimilated form of ob “over” (see ob-) + a verb related to celare “to hide,” from PIE root *kel- (1) “to cover, conceal, save.” Meaning “not apprehended by the mind, beyond the range of understanding” is from 1540s. The association with the supernatural sciences (magic, alchemy, astrology, etc.) dates from 1630s.
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The magic in Harry Potter isn’t occultish except when it comes to the villains. The witches and wizards do not seek after hidden supernatural powers. Rather, they’re more like the X-men who discover they have these powers, powers which if they don’t learn how to control will control them. Young wizards are discovered to be wizards through accidental magic. Like the X-men, usually this happens as the people near puberty and is triggered by intense emotions. And much of Hogwarts education is about developing a self-mastery over these innate abilities. In a way, its a great opportunity to talk to children about how we must master our own passions in order to cultivate virtue. And considering that Rowling’s overarching theme is that LOVE (agape not eros) is the most powerful magic these books are all the more CHRISTIAN.

What makes the wizards and witches in the Potter books so offensive to people is that Rowling CALLS them witches and wizards, and she CALLS their powers magic and mixes it in with cultural stereotypes like magic wands and flying brooms.

The condemnation of the occult is not about a specific method of pursuing spiritual power or knowledge being wrong. It is that pursuing secret spiritual knowledge and power is forbidden. Even when Christ taught us to pray, He taught us “Thy will be done.” We are not to aim at controlling God, but rather at learning to trust God.

Like all sins, the root is pride. Occultish practices take our religious inclinations and mix them in with pride. It becomes self consumed, aimed at controlling our external factors through a hidden power and at gaining secret knowledge so that we might “cloth our nakedness.” Christianity is about restoring our faith in God’s goodness so that we don’t run and hide in the bushes. We accept our nakedness and stop feeling ashamed of its vulnerability. We trust God as our loving Father knowing that the problem of evil will always challenge us to lose faith.
 
My opinion is irrelevant, I am concerned with God’s opinion.

I am not interested in winning an argument with you or anyone else. I am interested in upholding my faith.

Did you lose your faith before or after reading Harry Potter?
 
That’s your opinion of what I’m doing.

I am not interested in a debate at all! This is the first time I’ve ever debated on this forum for well over eleven hours I might add. I’m doing it because I know that it is my duty to do so as a Catholic. I do so because books like Harry Potter contain dangerous ideas to be giving to young minds. They are in my opinion a Trojan horse. Subtle but pernicious ideas which are pathogenic and noxious.

Having read Harry Potter children play witches and wizards, they don’t play “let’s be christians”

I don’t like to argue old chap.
 
Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger
Vatican City
March 7, 2003

Esteemed and dear Ms. Kuby!

Many thanks for your kind letter of February 20th and the informative book which you sent me in the same mail. It is good, that you enlighten people about Harry Potter, because those are subtle seductions, which act unnoticed and by this deeply distort Christianity in the soul, before it can grow properly.

I would like to suggest that you write to Mr. Peter Fleetwood, (Pontifical Council of Culture, Piazza S. Calisto 16, I00153 Rome) directly and to send him your book.

Sincere Greetings and Blessings,
  • Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger
Is this a fake letter?
 
I’ll take your word for it. It’s not important.

You know I had similar but far shorter conversations with my children about this years ago, actually before I was a Catholic. We stopped talking about it.

All I’ll say is to reiterate, I don’t beleive that we should feed our children such literature if we are Catholic.

Matthew 7:9
"Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone?

Can we point to any scripture which would condone reading literature such as Harry Potter I wonder?
 
Hey @Lee1 I can appreciate your position on the matter but please take it easy…I’ve read @(name removed by moderator) posts and thank God we have such balanced posters here, I mean most posters won’t concede one way or the other, I do rejoice just in finding someone who knows books and doesn’t go out of his way to exalt HP.
 
I think you’re right. Thanks.

I’m done. God bless everyone.
 
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Lee1 said:
I don’t have to know what the occult is to know that it promotes thoughts about the use of magic. This is un Catholic.
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But you won’t know when you’re trying to cultivate magic if you don’t know what the occult is. If you treat prayers of petition as God being your genie in a bottle, you are attempting to practice magic. If you increase your religious devotions (pray some novenas, attend daily mass, go on a fast) to win God’s favor and work on cultivating a belief that God will answer your prayers in the affirmative when you make prayers of petition, that’s an attempt to cultivate magic.

Magic is supernatural power. God does not want us to cultivate these powers, whether we’re appealing to angels, demons, or Him. That is why He taught us to pray “Thy will be done” rather than “My will be done.” It is why before the Our Father is given, he says “Your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.”

The temptation to Christian Gnosticism (the occult) rears it’s head throughout history. THAT is more dangerous than Harry Potter. Because the person indulging in the belief that their religious devotions will give them hidden knowledge from God is doing something that God explicitly forbids.

The Gospel is that God loves us already. The faith we are called to is to trust that. And what keeps us from Heaven is our lack of faith in God’s love. The heart of Christ’s teaching is that those people who seem to have been abandoned by God, who suffer from “misfortunate” are actually blessed and loved by God. And this message is within the cross, for the cross offers us that same paradox. It is both the best and worst thing that could have happened.
How is a Catholic different from a humanist if he or she doesn’t live the gospel so to speak?
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Rowling is a Christian. The gospel is within the Potter books as much as it is within Tolkien’s books and Lewis’ books. In fact, I’d argue that Lewis is too heavy-handed. When it comes to mastering the craft of writing literature, Tolkien is more of the expert with literary illusion than Lewis. And Rowling, likewise, is better at her craft than Lewis.

Good fiction isn’t a matter of liking it. I still enjoy Lewis over Tolkien more, but I acknowledge Tolkien understands his craft better than Lewis. Lewis’ books are good for preaching to the choir because his analogies are so on-the-nose. Aslan IS Jesus. Everything has a very direct parallel. Whereas good literary allusions have SCENES which echo other literary stories. It is in my familiarity with the gospel that I start seeing these echoes. Then literary criticism allows me to look at the scene and analyzing what Rowling is trying to say about what she’s alluding to.

While not all her allusions are biblical or Christian, the question a Christian must ask is “What is she saying THROUGH her literary devices?” Not has she developed a fictional world that is taboo? Fiction is fiction, and fantasy is an element. I’d quote Chesterton here, but I have to go now and it’d take me awhle to find the quote I’m thinking of.
 
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