Harry Potter - My problem with it

[JReducation]

Not preoccupied but showing caution against witchcraft existed long ago. I have friends still in the NAM and I’m praying for them to leave it all behind. I think about things that drew my attention before I left home and stopped going to Mass… all of it was new age related and I didn’t see it being talked about as a big problem. So, I went with new age. Hoping to prevent another child going through a 20 yrs sidetrack of wanting to dabble… or perhaps it’s best to just let them make their own mistakes like we all do and find out for themselves? Perhaps

I do believe that adults have a moral obligation to offer children guidance. The best guidance an adult can offer a child is the witness of his own holilness. Holiness is inspiring and attracts attention.

As to literature, whether it’s Harry or Gond With The Wind, we would do better to teach children how to read literature correctly and understand what the author and the characters are saying about humanity and life. Once we have done that, we can point out their strengths and weaknesses.

That’s what I did with my children when they were growing up. They read everything from Harry to Shakespeare. Anyone who has read Shakespeare has read about everything from murder to witchcraft. But I would not deny my children the privilege of reading William Shakespeare.

If the adult is a holy person, he will see these works of literature as they are and understand what is moral and immoral in them. This is what the adult can share with the young. He can also point to the young those elements in characterization and plot that are meant to entertain and those that are meant to teach.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[Roza]

Ok, let me share a little about me, or maybe I shouldn’t? As I said I was sleeping I think 20 yrs ago or just didn’t get it. I was into Twilight Zone, Outer Limits, In Search Of, Land of the Lost… that was my viewing. I also came from a family that had things go bump in the night and yes, I keep praying the spiritual warfare prayers… I do take it seriously because I know it was ‘in the family’ from a tarot reader to a witch and who knows if there was anything else, I don’t know. I guess as a child that’s why I thought there’s Church and then there’s ‘real life’ and I couldn’t see how it mixed… I didn’t understand that my view of what real life entailed for me was the world, the things Jesus preached against.

It was normal to hear about something that happened on or around when someone died and comments like ‘so & so just stopped by to say hi’… I went into my dabbling phase, then out of it and yeah I guess I was an anti for a time because all of what I experienced as a child I assumed was part of being Catholic. Obviously it wasn’t.

Yeah, I honestly know no Catholics locally yet, I know a lot of ex-Catholics all as equally mis-informed in the faith as I was. I won’t blame the Catholic Church for my not getting it the first time. There were many my age and unless we have a whole generation of fallen away Catholics my age… then I still think the fault lies with me.

I know what drew me out. I know ESP, ghosts, UFOs, etc were far more appealing to me 20 yrs ago, sad to say. Of the ex-Catholics I know most don’t know I’m back yet, one does and is cool with it… the rest we were all annoyed with the Catholic Church for our own reasons… truthfully I think we all ‘missed it’. I never doubted in the existence of God, never doubted Jesus existed, died, was buried, rose again etc… but I kept wondering… where’s the REST??? I do want to reach out to others like me, the new agers I still know and we do rarely talk these days. Maybe it’s just because I’ve been there, really fell deep in the muck and knowing the interesting journey back. Yeah, I fell for the anti-Catholic stuff too because I really didn’t know my faith. I have bits and pieces.

 

[JReducation]

Ok, let me share a little about me, or maybe I shouldn’t? As I said I was sleeping I think 20 yrs ago or just didn’t get it. I was into Twilight Zone, Outer Limits, In Search Of, Land of the Lost… that was my viewing. I also came from a family that had things go bump in the night and yes, I keep praying the spiritual warfare prayers… I do take it seriously because I know it was ‘in the family’ from a tarot reader to a witch and who knows if there was anything else, I don’t know. I guess as a child that’s why I thought there’s Church and then there’s ‘real life’ and I couldn’t see how it mixed… I didn’t understand that my view of what real life entailed for me was the world, the things Jesus preached against.

It was normal to hear about something that happened on or around when someone died and comments like ‘so & so just stopped by to say hi’… I went into my dabbling phase, then out of it and yeah I guess I was an anti for a time because all of what I experienced as a child I assumed was part of being Catholic. Obviously it wasn’t.

Yeah, I honestly know no Catholics locally yet, I know a lot of ex-Catholics all as equally mis-informed in the faith as I was. I won’t blame the Catholic Church for my not getting it the first time. There were many my age and unless we have a whole generation of fallen away Catholics my age… then I still think the fault lies with me.

I know what drew me out. I know ESP, ghosts, UFOs, etc were far more appealing to me 20 yrs ago, sad to say. Of the ex-Catholics I know most don’t know I’m back yet, one does and is cool with it… the rest we were all annoyed with the Catholic Church for our own reasons… truthfully I think we all ‘missed it’. I never doubted in the existence of God, never doubted Jesus existed, died, was buried, rose again etc… but I kept wondering… where’s the REST??? I do want to reach out to others like me, the new agers I still know and we do rarely talk these days. Maybe it’s just because I’ve been there, really fell deep in the muck and knowing the interesting journey back. Yeah, I fell for the anti-Catholic stuff too because I really didn’t know my faith. I have bits and pieces.

Roza, thanks for sharing your journey. I appreciate that you are willing to share a little about your inner self in relation to this topic.

The good thing is that most of these persons who engae in this new age stuff are more dabblers than firm believers. Of course, the bad thing is that they are looking for something that the Church already has. If one wants to get into the spiritual realm and the mystical, I would strongly recommend such writings as:

The Cloud of Unkowing

Meister Eckhart

Francis and Clare

John of the Cross and Teresa of Avila

Catherine of Genoa

Catherine of Siena

These are wonderful writings about the soul’s journey through the supernatual world.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[Roza]

I bookmarked this so I can visit each of those sites and listen to them… like using TTS instead of reading. Had a friend that was Catholic and became Wiccan, don’t know what her story was before she passed on as I was more worried about losing my job back then. Either to go through RCIA or see if there’s audios/cds/ anything I can get eventually to learn. And yeah, clueless on what Catholic evangelization would be… still want to fall into ‘are you saved?’ I know prayer is the best I can do for those I know still in new age stuff.

I reread about the green scapular, I’d have to give one to each one I know correct? I still have the one that a co-worker gave to me over a decade ago when I was still the new age dabbler. Keep praying for them and some day when I’m back on my feet perhaps I do need to have some Masses said for them. Still fight my own temptations now and then but I know where that junk was from.

 

[thistle]

If you’ve read the books and/or seen the movies - this thread is for you
If you haven’t read the books or seen the movies - this thread is for you
If you’re curious about the nature of Harry Potter - this thread is for you

Yeah, I know, there have been many threads on CAF about Harry Potter, and many different apologeists, theologians, and Church officials have given their opinons on Harry Potter. The Church has not judged Harry Potter yet, so all we have is personal opinions.

Have you read the books and seen the movies? Yes! I have not read all the books or seen all the movies, but I have read the first four books and seen the first movie. I have also checked out the Wikipedia articles on Harry Potter and talked to others who have read the books. For all that, though, I do not have a perfect understanding of Harry Potter, and I believe the only one who could have such a perfect understanding is the author of the books herself. Nonetheless, without wanting to sound proud or wise, I have a great knowledge of Harry Potter and have reflected upon the content in the books and in the movies, as well as the mania which surrounds Harry Potter.

Is Harry Potter pure evil? No, not pure evil, but it dose include very subtile evils - evils wrapped up in good. The greatest evils which Satan presents to man are not large and terrifying - no, that would be too obvious. Rather the devil makes uses of little evils, wrapped up in great goodness. He combines truth with untruth and evil with good to confuse people and gain ground in the soul. And so it is with Harry Potter. The books and movies include many Christian themes and good values: Sacrifice, love, courage, mercy, non-violent resistant against evil, friendship, co-operation, chastity, hope, unity, spiritual warfare, resistance to temptation, maturity, responsibility, protection of the poor and the innocent, and the triumph of good over evil, light over darkness. However, in the midst of all these virtues and values, there are also evil values and the glorification of sins lurking in the books and movies: Disobedience and being rewarded for it - or at least no consequences following it, doing evil for a good cause, love as an an occult power (magic), a difference between good and evil magic, divinization, harming those who harm you, conjuration, distrust in the divine Providence, mercy-killing, homosexual acts, superstition, and using evil to combat evil.

What about just the movies? How are they? The movies are like Lord of the Rings: Special effects, great plots, great characters and acting. But there is a big difference between Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings: The former, since they follow the books (more or less), are about the glorification of the subtle evils; the latter, since they follow the books (more or less), are about the glorification of Christ.

How has Harry Potter affected its readers? Both subtely and not so subtely. Not so subtely, the books have encouraged reading, imagination, fantasy, art, understanding of others, awareness of poverty, and fight against evil, as well as a fascination with the occult. Subtely, the books have encouraged a false understanding of love, superstition, magic, and other evils which I’ve spoken of. Those who know the truth and have faith will be better spiritually prepared to discern the evils in the book. However, Harry Potter is marketed to the youth - to those who are very vulnerable to lies and deception. It is true that age of body dose not determine age of spirit, but the young mind, since it is not fully mature, is vulnerable more than an adult is to being formed to believe in things which are not true and which can cause danger to the soul.

All that I have just typed above I have typed for your serious consideration. However, for all that, it is only my personal opinon and meditation on Harry Potter, and you are free to reject everything which I have said or counter it with your own opinons and meditations; my words are not binding upon you.

I have watched the HP movies and really enjoyed them. Simply good entertainment value. I never watch any movie and then try to analyse it or read something into it. Why can’t people simply go to the movies and be entertained.

 

[Roza]

I suppose if you hadn’t been sucked into the occult for a time and knew the struggle of getting out of it it would be entertaining. However, a recovered drug addict, alcoholic, or whatever vice you want to choose, wouldn’t enjoy a movie about another addict being an addict. Knowing casting spells does work and having been one that was in the occult I don’t see making it look fun and interesting as beneficial to anyone. I think of Blessed Bartolo who went from priest of satan to promoting the rosary. Would he promote Harry Potter? I don’t think so.

 

[JReducation]

I suppose if you hadn’t been sucked into the occult for a time and knew the struggle of getting out of it it would be entertaining. However, a recovered drug addict, alcoholic, or whatever vice you want to choose, wouldn’t enjoy a movie about another addict being an addict. Knowing casting spells does work and having been one that was in the occult I don’t see making it look fun and interesting as beneficial to anyone. I think of Blessed Bartolo who went from priest of satan to promoting the rosary. Would he promote Harry Potter? I don’t think so.

At first your were sharing your experience and I thought this was wonderful. But you have to be careful not to slip over into campaign mode. I understand the example that you provdie of the recovering alcoholic or addict etc. But this is not the experience of the majority. The majority are not recovering from othe occult. It is fair and charitable to give a warning. It is also fair and charitable to understand that there is more to the arts.

I lost my wife and one of my sons in a automobile accident many years ago. I understand how dangerous it is for someone who has a health problem. The driver of the other car had a seizure while driving. It is dangerous for people with seizure disorders to drive. I know, my wife and oldest son are dead as a result. But I don’t stop to look at movies where people get killed in car accidents and think about that. I simply enjoy the movie. The movie is not about me or promoting dangerous driving.

Harry Potter is not about people who have dabbled in the occult, nor does it promote the occult. It’s pure entertainment. All forms forms of art mimic life in some way.

I made a list in one previous post on this thread of the many classics that contain all kinds of sins. I’ve noticed that you have not spoken about any of them. Shakespeare also has occult in his plays. But who will condemn his works as being diabolical? The Legend of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table have Merline doing all kinds of tricks and casting spells, but who condemns them or takes those works off the shelves. Steven King writes about the occult in most of his books. Who does not recognize the genius of King.

The point that I’m trying to make is that we need to preserve our inner peace. To do so we have to put things into context. As Thistle said, sometimes a movie is just a movie. Freud once said that “sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.” It may not be the author’s intent to promote the occult, but to entertain.

What we have to learn and teach out young is the difference between entertainment and real life. I have two young adult children whom I raised by myself. Both are very much into the arts. Both have read Potter and other works of literature, played video games, seen many films, been exposed to many stage productions. They both understand what is life and what is fantasy. Neither goes around casting spells or engages in the occult, adultery, violence, sex, drugs and other. Much has to do with the supervision that parents provide for children and the holiness of the family in which you grow up.

The more involved the family is with prayer, the sacraments, works of charity and the Church, the less chance that one will engage in sinful behaviour. Sin, yes, everyone sins. Going overboard, rarely happens in families with deep spiritual lives. The seem to enjoy things at face value as Thistle said and they can also see trash at face value without analyzing it.

The spiritual life is about more than Harry Potter.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[Rico_S]

Wow! I am stunned at the number of people here who believe “magic” is real.

I suppose if you think people can cast spells in real life, then yeah, the Harry Potter books will look like the path to Satan. Since I am quite confident that spell casting is pure fantasy, I don’t have this problem and I let my kids read the books and watch the movies (at the appropriate age). They know that the chance of success in trying to get our dog to levitate by pointing a stick at her and shouting “leviosa”, is on par with their chance of using the Jedi mind trick on me to get out of a punishment.

With that said, I think the issues of disobedience, torture,etc. are worthy of discussion.

-Rico

 

[Roza]

JReducation
I can see what you’re saying, I guess I think about the kid that might be like I was and who gets drawn to things they ought not… that’s all. I do apologize.

 

[Roza]

I first want to reply to Rico S;

Wow! I am stunned at the number of people here who believe “magic” is real.

It’s been said that one of the greatest tricks Satan has ever done was to convince the world he isn’t real.

Deuteronomy
Chapter 18 NAB
10 1 Let there not be found among you anyone who immolates his son or daughter in the fire, nor a fortune-teller, soothsayer, charmer, diviner,
11 or caster of spells, nor one who consults ghosts and spirits or seeks oracles from the dead.
12 Anyone who does such things is an abomination to the LORD, and because of such abominations the LORD, your God, is driving these nations out of your way.

So Rico, God just made up things to warn us about that aren’t real? Picking and choosing what to believe? God bless you that you weren’t one who fell for occult lies but don’t make those of us who had think we believed in something not real. It is real, real deceptions from the father of lies.

JReducation, I’m sorry for your losses. I know what you’re saying. I also know things that used to lure me as a kid and I know just 10 mins of seeing one Harry Potter movie was enough for me. Maybe because it was so close to the real thing. Take my words with a grain of salt. I know people still in the occult, I pray for them.

I’ve lost touch with most of them except two and we hardly speak as it is… one wiccan, one pagan. The wiccan has a Protestant Christian husband and yeah, he needs prayer too.

 

[Roza]

JReducation, I don’t like my wording, I meant to say my condolences. ‘I’m sorry for your losses’ is a phrase that can be taken different ways depending upon what tone is assumed and I’m not good at noting tone in my text. Foot in mouth, I think it’s just too much stress these days but it’s subsiding bit by bit.

 

[Valke2]

Star Wars, Field of Dreams, Wizard of Oz, Harry Potter,

ALL EVIL. All of the above are responsible for much of the evil in the world today

 

[LRThunder]

Star Wars, Field of Dreams, Wizard of Oz, Harry Potter,

ALL EVIL. All of the above are responsible for much of the evil in the world today

You’re kidding, right?

They’re responsible for…let’s say terrorism?

 

[JReducation]

JReducation, I don’t like my wording, I meant to say my condolences. ‘I’m sorry for your losses’ is a phrase that can be taken different ways depending upon what tone is assumed and I’m not good at noting tone in my text. Foot in mouth, I think it’s just too much stress these days but it’s subsiding bit by bit.

It’s OK my friend. I understand and I thank you.

JR

 

[JReducation]

Star Wars, Field of Dreams, Wizard of Oz, Harry Potter,

ALL EVIL. All of the above are responsible for much of the evil in the world today

Tell me that you’re joking.

JR

 

[Valke2]

of course.

 

[Roza]

Star Wars & Field of Dreams though… don’t have wiccan or pagan themes… I do vaguely remember a movie called the ‘Dark Crystal’ from 80’s??? but that was more space stuff… Let’s replace Harry Potter and say it was a movie about using a ouija or using iching coins if we didn’t want to look at witchcraft/wicca… god and goddess… would it still be received as totally fine to watch these days, something for kids to see? So maybe they could buy their own ouija or make their own… see what I mean? To a child, planting the ideas in their heads… if they do know what they’re watching is forbidden by the Church… but kids are kids… I still remember being told don’t eat these berries because they’re poisonous or would make me sick and I ate them anyway. When it was discovered right away had to do the ipecac syrup, yuck! I went to the Capitol Building in Madison WI as a child, they said ‘don’t lean over the railing’ but a kid will do exactly what you tell them not to, I did. I guess that’s my concern.

 

[darb85]

ITS A BOOK! FICTION! MADE UP! FOR KIDS! FAKE! IMAGINATIVE!

Get over it, Its not going to drive kids to be evil.

 

[JReducation]

The only concern that the Church has ever publicly expressed about Harry Potter is the fear that the books and movies can trigger younger children to explore in the world of the occult.

That being said, Pope John Paul II also said that he liked the fact that the books took a stand against injustice.

It seems, that like any other book or film, it is up to the adults to help children understand the difference between reality, fantasy, fun and danger. The problem is not in the content of the book as with an unsupervized and unguided readership of younger years.

So what else is new?

Fraternally,

JR

 

[Little_Katie]

I have not read the book, so I cannot really comment on it.
But what you said above is usually how the devil works - evil wrapped up in good.

I have watched several TV programs talked about Harry Potter.
Those programs were shown on Protestant Christian channel.
All I heard was Harry Potter had subtle evil woven in good to trick innocent children. I remember one lady on the program who had involved in witchcraft before said the spells in the books were actually real spells used by witches.

The above is retold from my memory.

When I was a teenager I got mixed up in Wicca…long story. But speaking from personal experience, the magic in Harry Potter is of fairy tale variety and nothing like Wicca. In fact, most of the Harry Potter magic is just JK Rowling playing with Latin words/prefixes.

I also read all the Harry Potter books. I found them to be good stories and fun to read.

The only books I have ever read and honestly feel could be dangerous for easily influenced children or even adults would be The Davinci Code or the ‘His Dark Materials Series’, in which they “kill God” at the end. I have read both. I will warn you that I read His Dark Materials in my early teen years (that’s the book series that has ‘The Golden Compass’ in it) and I didn’t realize what they were really about or that they were bad. I recently saw the movie and was appalled. This moved me to reread the books and I realized the whole series is an allegory of fighting the church and eventually ‘killing God’. I guess I’ve learned lot since then! I highly advise parents to not let your kids get involved with this series… even though to a child it only seems like a cute fair tale.