Harry Potter

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The absurdity of it all: right now, as we speak, there are millions of scientists hard at work in laboratories across the world doing the most tedious and painstaking research to cure diseases.

Yet we think that there are “magical spells” that could produce the same results?

Come now, let’s get real. Ouija boards, psychics, spells… all a bunch of ridiculous superstition that is totally unsubstantiated.

If you don’t want your children growing up to be Wiccans, there’s one simple step: embrace reason.
 
If you want to talk about desensitization look at Lotr or narnia. They are worse because they tend to be viewed by religious as being good and representative of the faith.
“The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work, unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision.” -John Ronald Reuel Tolkien (My favorite author)
Reference ← Note the fact that it’s from EWTN
why not encourage kids to read C.S. Lewis’ LW&W series instead? as literature it’s orders of magnitude better than HP and better illustrates christian themes.
Debatable. The “orders of magnitude better” part, that is.
  1. We must learn to choose between “what is right” and “what is easy.”
I always put it: Catholicism is not about doing what’s easy, but doing what’s right.
Narnia is not a depiction of Christianity. It is an allegory for Christianity.
He is not Christ. Narnia does not exist. Aslan does not exist. He is never called Christ, he is called Aslan. I cannot look up “Aslan” in the Bible. Narnia is allegorical, not descriptive in the actual sense.
It IS strongly implied in “Voyage of the Dawn Treader” that Lewis intended Aslan to be Christ but incarnate in the form of a lion as opposed to a man in Narnia. For whatever that’s worth.
Oi. That’s the main thing I didn’t like about Narnia. Whereas Tolkien managed to weave Catholicism into LotR rather nicely, by the end of the Chronicles of Narnia, it felt like Lewis was trying to bash me in the head with an allegorical sledgehammer.
 
Ah, I see… these potter-threads are so charged with sarcasm that I misread your reference to Hamlet and Oliver Twist as sarcasm negating what you’d said about Harry Potter.

Glad we’re on the same page 👍
Heh, so it’s so sarcastic that non-sarcastic answers seem sarcastic? Wow.
 
Well I apologize most profusely. I was under the impression you would be able to figure out that I don’t actually believe Narnia or a lion named Aslan exists in reality and was talking about the books themselves. Also, clarifying an earlier statement does not in any way amount to changing ones position.
It changes the nature of the statement. You cannot accuse me of misinterpreting your statement when I was operating off what you said. Furthermore, Aslan is not interchangeable in reality with Christ. You claimed that he was: “Aslan IS Christ.” This is not the case. I understand perfectly well what you meant; the misunderstanding lies with you.
According to that line of thinking, every work of fiction would be an allegory, or at least every work of fiction set in a fictional world other than ours. Narnia is fiction but not allegory.
No, that is not what I am saying. If instead of Aslan Lewis had written about Christ in Narnia, we would have had something else altogether. But the explicit association of Aslan with Christ is out-of-text, and therefore the work remains allegorical despite the intentions of the author.
 
It changes the nature of the statement. You cannot accuse me of misinterpreting your statement when I was operating off what you said. Furthermore, Aslan is not interchangeable in reality with Christ. You claimed that he was: “Aslan IS Christ.” This is not the case. I understand perfectly well what you meant; the misunderstanding lies with you.
Not sure what I misunderstood, exactly. I didn’t misunderstand what I myself said. Plus, if you understood what I meant, then why in the world did you feel the need to argue against it as if I’d said something different?
 
The absurdity of it all: right now, as we speak, there are millions of scientists hard at work in laboratories across the world doing the most tedious and painstaking research to cure diseases.

Yet we think that there are “magical spells” that could produce the same results?

Come now, let’s get real. Ouija boards, psychics, spells… all a bunch of ridiculous superstition that is totally unsubstantiated.

If you don’t want your children growing up to be Wiccans, there’s one simple step: embrace reason.
Forget diseases, what about weapons? The greatest weapon the real world has got is the nuclear bomb.

Compare that to the things I’ve seen in fantasy (among which include a monstrous beast that wiped out most of the planet, a mass-nullification aura that reduced an entire world to a barren wasteland like Mars, and a cataclysmic disaster that split a single universe into five pieces of itself), we can’t even hold a spark.
 
Come now, let’s get real. Ouija boards, psychics, spells… all a bunch of ridiculous superstition that is totally unsubstantiated.
Ouija boards actually do have ties to the occult, as they are meant to call upon spirits. In the true story behind The Exorcist, the family believes it was playing with a Ouija board that led to the boy’s possession.
 
F.A.O. Pheonix

Dear Pheonix,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Thankyou for your reponses and my apologies for the delay in my reply.

First, dear friend, to defend the Potter series by remarking that “the magic in Potter is purely mechanical. There is nothing “occultic” about it at all”, is to oversimplify a key problem with the book series. What you and others are turning a blind eye to is the author’s use of the symbol-world of the occult as her primary metaphor, and occultic activities as the dramatic engine of the plots. Moreover, these are presented to the child reader through attractive and ‘cool’ role models, such as the Harry and Hermione characters, who are, albeit in a fictional world, still students at a school of witchcraft and sorcery. Sadly, the pro-Potterites, in their fanatical allegiance to the books, are not prepared to allow that all of this has the potential for lowering a child’s guard, on a subconscious and spiritual level, to actual occultic activity, which is everywhere on the increase. Whilst children may rationally know that the fantasy element within the books is pure make believe, emotionally they still absorb it as real. Moreover, dear friend, you also have to take into account that there are many opportunities in the world today for the impressionable young to enter the occultic subcultures. Clearly, any children’s book series that has the potential, at least, of dulling their sensitivities to actual occultic activity is surely a must to avoid. Good Catholic parent’s will be very desirous to do all within their power to minimize this potential risk by forbidding their children to read this culturally unhealthy reading material. They will ignore their children’s petulant protests about being “joyless priggs” or adopting a Fundamentalist mindset and do what they think is in the best spiritual interests of their precious offspring, even if that does makes them unpopular or ‘uncool’ for a season. Later, especially when they are older, they will stand up and thank them for their good parenting and vigilance as regards their spiritual welfare.

What we need to remember, dear friend, is that whilst a novel may be intended to be read as pure fiction by its author, certain topics, morals or ‘values’, and even factual material embedded within the book, may still interface with the real world. It would, I think, be foolishly credulous to regard the world of fiction as some sort of air tight compartment where interaction with the real world never occurs, but unfortunately this is the impression that some pro-Potterites and their defenders convey.

Much of the defence of the Potter series seems to be that every well-adjusted person can easily distinguish fact from fantasy, thus the misgivings of its opponents are alarmist and belong only to the lunatic fringes of Christianity. However, this completely ignores the fact that children read fiction with a different consciousness than adults. It is conveniently forgotten that children are in a state of formation and that their understanding of reality is being forged at every turn.

The actual numbers of children who step from Potter-world into the actual occultic subcultures is, I agree, relatively small, thanks be unto God, but I emphasize the word relatively. Considering all the marketing hype and the unprecedented popularity of the whole Potter franchise world-wide, even the relatively small number of children who are hooked into the occultic subcultures can add up to many precious souls and a great deal of damage - perhaps damage that will have eternal consequences. Would you not agree, dear friend, that even one single child lost to the occult is a great tragedy - remember our Lord was concerned for even the one sheep who had been lost (S. Lk. 15: 3-7)?

When men defend these books by erroneously contending that the Potter series disconnect witchcraft from spiritual realities and that therefore there is no clear and present danger of a child wanting to go from fantasy witchcraft to its real life counterpart, they are leaping to a bif conclusion devoid of any empirical evidence. The books may at first glance appear to disconnect witchcraft from the spiritual and present it as perfectly innocuous and jolly exciting stuff. However, this only renders the Potter tales more potentially corrupting, since it gives to your unsuspecting child reader a false sense of what witchcraft is all about and many of us find that most disturbing, dear friend.

My plea, dear friend, is for men to at least acknowldege that the inferior Potter book series can be a doorway into the actual world of the occult and that they bridge that gap between normal happy children and the children of darkness. Moreover, this concern must be seen against the backdrop of a phenomenal resurgence of increase in occult ‘spiritualities’, a symptom of the bankruptcy of secularism. There is an innate hunger within man for the transcendent and numinous, wherein he finds his true identity and worth, but when this is denied, an inevitable void opens up within him. Indeed, this is why it is so vitally important to provide a vibrant Catholic faith that warns uncompromisingly of the dangers of a worldly conformity, especially to the youth, otherwise they will go searching elsewhere. The realm of the pseudo-mystical, which is fequently connected to the diabolical, will be waiting for them. Thus to prevent this, we ought to protect them from culturally unhealthy literature that may very well be the first push in this direction.

More to follow.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
 
There is nothing “occultic” about it at all", is to oversimplify a key problem with the book series. What you and others are turning a blind eye to is the author’s use of the symbol-world of the occult as her primary metaphor, and occultic activities as the dramatic engine of the plots. Moreover, these are presented to the child reader through attractive and ‘cool’ role models, such as the Harry and Hermione characters, who are, albeit in a fictional world, still students at a school of witchcraft and sorcery. Sadly, the pro-Potterites, in their fanatical allegiance to the books, are not prepared to allow that all of this has the potential for lowering a child’s guard, on a subconscious and spiritual level, to actual occultic activity, which is everywhere on the increase.
People, note the repetitive insistence on parallelomania and the lack of logical connection between the so-called symbolism and actual occult practices. Given that much of what this post substitutes for substance is raw assertion, be advised that such is a logical fallacy. In addition, observe the obsession with the subconscious and the lack of acknowledgment that children should be reformed to embrace reality rather than be sheltered from it. It indicates many similarities with fringe believers who insist in seeing the subliminal and the sinister under every rock.

So, this still the type of guy you want advising you how to raise your kids?
 
Ouija boards actually do have ties to the occult, as they are meant to call upon spirits. In the true story behind The Exorcist, the family believes it was playing with a Ouija board that led to the boy’s possession.
Yeah well I don’t remember ouija boards being able to give channelers the power to shoot fire or levitate objects.
 
Never ceases to amaze me, the amount of Catholics on the forum obsessed with defending harry potter.
 
I’m more amazed by Catholics obsessed with criticizing it. :rolleyes:
wouldn’t know, rarely ever look at these threads with harry potter in the title, yet the rare occasions i have done over the last number of years, could almost guarantee the posters that will be there, defending harry, almost seems like a religion with them at this stage.
 
Never ceases to amaze me, the amount of Catholics on the forum obsessed with defending harry potter.
Dear saveusfromhell,

Cordial greetings and a very good day.

Indeed, dear friend, that is saddening and most unfortunate, but those browsing this thread should be made aware that several respected Catholic commentators, including Steven Wood, Vivian Dudro, Michael O’ Brien, Patrick Madrid and Matthew Arnold have provided well-grounded criticisms regarding the dreadful defects of the Potter books. Therefore, no man should tacitly assume that anyone who resists and feels compelled to censure the Potter phenomenom must necessarily be a wide-eyed Fundamentalist type or an irrational fool, merely because they venture to give a negative appraisal of the books. Notwithstanding the pro-Potterites/supporters insistence that the Potter books are harmless fun and replete with good moral teaching, there is genuine cause for concern with this unsatisfactory book series
intended for children. You will certainly see a copious amount of superficially plausible and emotional argumentation on these boards and in some of the Catholic media, but that is not synonynous with a cogent and rational defence of the Potter series of books - something which I have yet to see.

Perhaps the most dangerous aspect of the Harry Potter books is that they do not appear dangerous, especially to children yet in a state of formation. Potter and his chums cast spells and perform magic and everything is hunky-dory. Rowling takes very serious matters that the Catholic Church has consistently condemned and admonished the faithful to steer well clear of - magic, charms, spells, sorcery - and treats them in a trivial and even jesting fashion. This is unacceptable against the backdrop of today’s climate, charged as it is with a resurgence of interest in occultic activity. Should we be even opening the door an inch to the world of darkness and the enemy of men’s souls? Books, who’s primary target group is young children, that make sorcery, spells and charms seem so amusing and harmless are deceitful and thus should be given a jolly wide berth. At the very least, they encourage our children to take a flippant tolerant New Age view of diabolical witchcraft. Surely that is suffient per se to render the Potter series gravely unsatisfactory for the impressionable young.

When, dear friend, I consider the Potter tales, which presents sorcery and all manner of spells and divination as normal and harmless, notwithstanding the fictional context, I am reminded of the condemnation of the prophet Isaiah: “Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness” (5: 20).

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
 
I think This isn’t just black or white. It’s possible that Harry Potter promotes Christian values and lights an interest in the occult in young children both. In Lord of the Rings and fantasy written before it magic is used only by supernatural beings (as someone pointed out Gandalf is more like an archangel than a human)or evil humans(the Witch in Narnia). Through fiction should have different rules in real life, the bible is very clear that the Witch of Endor was breaking God’s law. For my self personally though Harry Potter is bittersweet, not only was I taught to read with it, it got me interested in “real” magic and magicians like Alesiter Crowley. So I both Like and Distrust Harry Potter. I’m on the fence.🤷
 
Never ceases to amaze me, the amount of Catholics on the forum obsessed with defending harry potter.
I’m more amazed by Catholics obsessed with criticizing it. :rolleyes:
I’m more obsessed with defending LotR against its occasional critics.

That aside, I feel I should post my opinions on Harry Potter. I think there’s a difference between actually trying to use the magic from Harry Potter and just saying the words. It’s the difference between jokingly waving your wand from the Wizarding World of Harry Potter at Universal while saying sectumsempra, and actually thinking you’ll maul them with an invisible sword by doing so.
 
I think This isn’t just black or white. It’s possible that Harry Potter promotes Christian values and lights an interest in the occult in young children both. In Lord of the Rings and fantasy written before it magic is used only by supernatural beings (as someone pointed out Gandalf is more like an archangel than a human)or evil humans(the Witch in Narnia). Through fiction should have different rules in real life, the bible is very clear that the Witch of Endor was breaking God’s law. For my self personally though Harry Potter is bittersweet, not only was I taught to read with it, it got me interested in “real” magic and magicians like Alesiter Crowley. So I both Like and Distrust Harry Potter. I’m on the fence.🤷
Dear Samson,

Cordial greetings and a very warm welcome to the world of CAF. Hope you find your time here spiritually profitable and informative. Thankyou for your contribution above.

In our modern culture, dear friend, we have sadly become all too accustomed to consuming a certain amount of poison in our diet, indeed many lack a sufficiently well-formed conscience to be able to even recognize the poison when they encounter it. That is why I believe that many educators and parents simply do not perceive the scope of the problem with the Potter series of books.

Whilst it is undeniably true that the Potter phenomenom has captivated the minds of millions on a global scale, this is because its post-Christian world-view chimes with our relativistic and anti-authoritarian society. Moreover, dear friend, the Potter tales enjoy wide popularity among the young because they treat of a world of fantasy and escapism - a world that far too many young people today like to inhabit since they feel safe hiding away in an imaginary fictional universe, rather than engaging with the harsh realities and responsibilities of the real world. So many (not all) have been excessively protected by over indulgent parents and their opinions accorded far too much deference and thus it is hardly surprising that they easily identify with the naughty but ‘cool’ Harry Potter character. The books are a sad product of our age, I am afraid.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
 
Dear Samson,

Cordial greetings and a very warm welcome to the world of CAF. Hope you find your time here spiritually profitable and informative. Thankyou for your contribution above.

In our modern culture, dear friend, we have sadly become all too accustomed to consuming a certain amount of poison in our diet, indeed many lack a sufficiently well-formed conscience to be able to even recognize the poison when they encounter it. That is why I believe that many educators and parents simply do not perceive the scope of the problem with the Potter series of books.

Whilst it is undeniably true that the Potter phenomenom has captivated the minds of millions on a global scale, this is because its post-Christian world-view chimes with our relativistic and anti-authoritarian society. Moreover, dear friend, the Potter tales enjoy wide popularity among the young because they treat of a world of fantasy and escapism - a world that far too many young people today like to inhabit since they feel safe hiding away in an imaginary fictional universe, rather than engaging with the harsh realities and responsibilities of the real world. So many (not all) have been excessively protected by over indulgent parents and their opinions accorded far too much deference and thus it is hardly surprising that they easily identify with the naughty but ‘cool’ Harry Potter character. The books are a sad product of our age, I am afraid.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
:rolleyes:

Seriously, people who have no clue what the books are actually about or what positions they endorse have no business commenting.

You really expect every hero in a series to be a 100% white knight? There’s a phrase for such a character. That phrase is “laughably unrealistic and ridiculous”.
 
I’m more amazed by Catholics obsessed with criticizing it. :rolleyes:
👍

Of course I’m proactive in defending Harry Potter. It inspired me to become a writer, and I grew up with it-from the age of 11 to 16 years old. It taught me a ton about morality-as a child, more than anything else. I still think of Sirius’s words to Pettigrew in book 3 when I think of my friends.
“THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE DIED! DIED RATHER THAN BETRAY YOUR FRIENDS, AS WE WOULD HAVE DONE FOR YOU!”
From the Gospels:
“There is no greater love than this, to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.”
Not to mention the incredibly strong emphasis on the importance of love and family.
 
Not sure what I misunderstood, exactly. I didn’t misunderstand what I myself said. Plus, if you understood what I meant, then why in the world did you feel the need to argue against it as if I’d said something different?
You misunderstood what I wrote.
What you and others are turning a blind eye to is the author’s use of the symbol-world of the occult as her primary metaphor, and occultic activities as the dramatic engine of the plots.
Rowling’s magic is not occult. It is part of physics. This is fundamentally different from magic in the real world.
Moreover, these are presented to the child reader through attractive and ‘cool’ role models, such as the Harry and Hermione characters, who are, albeit in a fictional world, still students at a school of witchcraft and sorcery.
That has no basis in reality because witchcraft and wizardry involve the fabric of the universe.
Whilst children may rationally know that the fantasy element within the books is pure make believe, emotionally they still absorb it as real.
It is good for children to be emotionally invested in art and culture.
Moreover, dear friend, you also have to take into account that there are many opportunities in the world today for the impressionable young to enter the occultic subcultures.
If parents are doing their job, this is not possible. Since you admit this possibility, then you must believe that parents are not doing their job. If that is the case, why do you think that your words will have any effect whatsoever? Would your effort not be better spent imploring parents to be attentive, recognizing this as the fundamental problem?
Clearly, any children’s book series that has the potential, at least, of dulling their sensitivities to actual occultic activity is surely a must to avoid.
You are, of course, wrong. There is no way to predict the reaction of each child to each book. The parents should always have an open dialog with their children, but it is not necessary to shun every book that may have some sort of effect of any kind of a child, nor is it possible, for no one is prescient.
What we need to remember, dear friend, is that whilst a novel may be intended to be read as pure fiction by its author, certain topics, morals or ‘values’, and even factual material embedded within the book, may still interface with the real world.
And that interfacing should be moderated by the parents, but permitted insofar as it is morally permissible.
However, this completely ignores the fact that children read fiction with a different consciousness than adults. It is conveniently forgotten that children are in a state of formation and that their understanding of reality is being forged at every turn.
It is also conveniently forgotten that parents may discuss the books with their children, thereby avoiding any issues.
My plea, dear friend, is for men to at least acknowldege that the inferior Potter book series can be a doorway into the actual world of the occult and that they bridge that gap between normal happy children and the children of darkness.
Yes, insofar as the Bible may also be a doorway into the actual world of the occult in the hands of the wrong reader.
 
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