Harry Potter

[Portrait]

Of course I’m proactive in defending Harry Potter. It inspired me to become a writer, and I grew up with it-from the age of 11 to 16 years old. It taught me a ton about morality-as a child, more than anything else. I still think of Sirius’s words to Pettigrew in book 3 when I think of my friends.

Dear Marc Anthony,

Cordial greetings and a very good day.

Whatever morals/virtues that are to be found within the pages of the Potter series are only an inheritance from Christianity and surivive only as a humanistic ethos, a mere vestige of what they once were. However, it admits of no doubt that the Potter books are not a Christian metaphor, as John Granger (a staunch Pro-Potter defender) contends. That, dear friend, is an entirely superficial understanding of the books and a very selective reading of certain details in them; effectively it ignores an overwhelming amount of detail that contradicts the positive values and Christian symbols.

Many who are so desperate to defend these Potter books to the death, strain to find redeeming qualities within the pages of this profoundly disordered children’s series. Now of course, dear friend, in a book series with over 4200 pages there will be details that will reinforce the arguments of the pro-Potterite camp, this I would not stop to deny, but it demands blindness to the other unhappy dimensions within the book.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Many who are so desperate to defend these Potter books to the death, strain to find redeeming qualities within the pages of this profoundly disordered children’s series. Now of course, dear friend, in a book series with over 4200 pages there will be details that will reinforce the arguments of the pro-Potterite camp, this I would not stop to deny, but it demands blindness to the other unhappy dimensions within the book.

While many who demonize it are so desperate to prove its alleged unholy elements by resorting to intellectual dishonesty, turning their noses up to the laws of physics themselves, and reduce our faith to that of a medieval peasant outlook (plus the persecution complex).

So much for us being the religion of the logos.

wouldn’t know, rarely ever look at these threads with harry potter in the title, yet the rare occasions i have done over the last number of years, could almost guarantee the posters that will be there, defending harry, almost seems like a religion with them at this stage.

Uh-huh right while critics obsess with saying everything from fire actually comes out of sticks and exorcists are infallible. It’s like they’re a cult.

That aside, I feel I should post my opinions on Harry Potter. I think there’s a difference between actually trying to use the magic from Harry Potter and just saying the words. It’s the difference between jokingly waving your wand from the Wizarding World of Harry Potter at Universal while saying sectumsempra, and actually thinking you’ll maul them with an invisible sword by doing so.

Not exactly. Magic in our world involves some sort of pact with outside forces, forces with minds of their own. In fantasy however, it takes the same role as science. Like solar and electrical power, it is under man’s dominion.

You really expect every hero in a series to be a 100% white knight? There’s a phrase for such a character. That phrase is “laughably unrealistic and ridiculous”.

I got a better term: Dragon fodder. <—Loves dragons.

 

[Razanir]

Many who are so desperate to defend these Potter books to the death, strain to find redeeming qualities within the pages of this profoundly disordered children’s series. Now of course, dear friend, in a book series with over 4200 pages there will be details that will reinforce the arguments of the pro-Potterite camp, this I would not stop to deny, but it demands blindness to the other unhappy dimensions within the book.

(Note: I haven’t read Narnia recently, but remember a decent amount, just not the details. Wikipedia filled me in)

One could say the same of Narnia or Lord of the Rings, which the general consensus describes as good books to read. In Narnia, there are mentions of gods. While the only ones I remember are the river god from Prince Caspian, as well as Aslan and debatably Tash, Wikipedia says even Tumnus is described as a forest god.

Similarly, Middle-Earth has a pantheon of Ainur, beings akin to gods. Within them are two classes– the Valar and the Maiar. Five of the Maiar, you have almost certainly heard of– Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast, Sauron and Durin’s Bane (the balrog from Moria). One of these (Gandalf) uses his magic to help the Company, and even uses his status as a Maia to return from the dead. Radagast, while not a main character, still helps the side of good by sending Gwaihir to rescue Gandalf from Orthanc.

Conclusion OR tl;dr– Any fantasy book is going to have good elements and bad elements in it.

 

[saveusfromhell]

Of course I’m proactive in defending Harry Potter. It inspired me to become a writer, and I grew up with it-from the age of 11 to 16 years old. It taught me a ton about morality-as a child, more than anything else.

why would you care what others think of harry potter books, some hate them, some love them, some think their occult, some regard them as harmless, what difference to your life does it make what anyone else thinks? an obsession that sounds like idolatary, another book speaks about that.
anyway maybe next year i might look in again. on the i love harry thread at that stage.

 

[saveusfromhell]

Uh-huh right while critics obsess with saying everything from fire actually comes out of sticks and exorcists are infallible. It’s like they’re a cult.
D

what has match sticks or exorcists to do with my post or idolatary of harry pottter.

 

[NovusAugustus]

This whole thread, from beginning to end, is quite amusing and it strikes me that some of the posts may be intentionally troll-esque.

Out of all the rather shoddy and weak body of modern fiction, the Harry Potter series is one of the least threatening pieces to the Roman Catholic Church. Its opponents’ chief and most reasonable (though still only spaciously so) argument against it is that it contains magic and because the Church is against magic the series is immoral.

This proposition renders the vast majority of the classical canon like the Illiad, the Odyssey, Metamorphoses, and just about every other major classical work apparently “evil”, despite the fact that many of the most brilliant and educated church scholars and supporters probably read such material and knew it by heart. It also condemns, as others have pointed out, the prominent Christian writers Tolkien and Lewis to sin–how dare they spread the demonic wind of “magic”!

Even if you remain determined to reject magic in literature, at the same time rejecting a huge portion of almost universally adored and respected works in the world, you are still on shaky ground. The magic in Harry Potter is not occult magic–it is morally neutral magic that merely acts a tool (granted potentially a weapon and THEN sinful). Furthermore, the books use magic as nothing more than a device to convey Rowling’s key themes: one, sacrificial love conquers all evil and two, our moral choices in life not only show the world who we are but also determine our path in the afterlife. These ideas would almost without a doubt be universally accepted by every serious churchman if they would look past their own foolish prejudices.

I’m not here to argue the books’ literary merit because they obviously have their flaws: often awful diction and simple characters, to name a couple. But there is absolutely NO moral delimma presented by reading these books. None! Only if you accept the rather spurious doctrine that, “All things lead away from God, so avoid EVERYTHING except prayer,” can you possibly argue against these books.

 

[Samson33]

This whole thread, from beginning to end, is quite amusing and it strikes me that some of the posts may be intentionally troll-esque.

Out of all the rather shoddy and weak body of modern fiction, the Harry Potter series is one of the least threatening pieces to the Roman Catholic Church. Its opponents’ chief and most reasonable (though still only spaciously so) argument against it is that it contains magic and because the Church is against magic the series is immoral.

This proposition renders the vast majority of the classical canon like the Illiad, the Odyssey, Metamorphoses, and just about every other major classical work apparently “evil”, despite the fact that many of the most brilliant and educated church scholars and supporters probably read such material and knew it by heart. It also condemns, as others have pointed out, the prominent Christian writers Tolkien and Lewis to sin–how dare they spread the demonic wind of “magic”!

Even if you remain determined to reject magic in literature, at the same time rejecting a huge portion of almost universally adored and respected works in the world, you are still on shaky ground. The magic in Harry Potter is not occult magic–it is morally neutral magic that merely acts a tool (granted potentially a weapon and THEN sinful). Furthermore, the books use magic as nothing more than a device to convey Rowling’s key themes: one, sacrificial love conquers all evil and two, our moral choices in life not only show the world who we are but also determine our path in the afterlife. These ideas would almost without a doubt be universally accepted by every serious churchman if they would look past their own foolish prejudices.

I’m not here to argue the books’ literary merit because they obviously have their flaws: often awful diction and simple characters, to name a couple. But there is absolutely NO moral delimma presented by reading these books. None! Only if you accept the rather spurious doctrine that, “All things lead away from God, so avoid EVERYTHING except prayer,” can you possibly argue against these books.

I wish I had the authority to say you are close to the kingdom of god, because I honestly feel that you are. You capture my feeling on the matter. If you condemn Harry Potter then you condemn Homer, Shakespeare, Aesop, Sophocles, etc.

 

[Bonnie]

I think almost anything read with an incorrect attitude can cause problems. Just look what the Pearls have done with the “spare the rod, spoil the child” verse.

I’m a long-time fan of Zenna Henderson and her “People” books. I’ve always seen the People as being sort of Catholic. In a forword to one of her books, Zenna talked about people’s reactions to her stories. She said the saddest of all were the ones who were convinced it was all real & she was hiding the People from the world.

Rather along the lines of a holy card I keep with me at all times. It’s a quote from St. Teresa of Avila, “I do not fear Satan half so much as I fear those who fear him.”

 

[ljsedivy]

Dear ChibiViolet,

Cordial greetings and a very good day.

Many men are of the opinion, dear friend, that the Harry Potter series of books do at least have the potential for enticing the young, yet in a state of formation, into the occultic subcultures. This is frequently dismissed as risible by the pro-Potterites and their supporters, but at a time when we are sadly witnessing a global increase in occultic activity, that concern ought to merit more serious attention than it is does. These books can undoubtedly stimulate interest in the occult, especially given the times in which our lot is cast, and it is incumbent upon Catholic parents monitor their children’s book choices. Notwithstanding that it is fantasy fiction the leading characters attend a school of witchcraft and sorcery, practices which in the real world are denounced in the strongest terms by the Sacred Scripture and the Church.

However, dear friend, the Potter tales are unsatisfactory for other reasons, most notably the issues of authority and obedience - two of the most intensely disliked words among today’s youth - and indecorous content. This renders the book series culturally unwholesome reading material for young people, apart from any concerns about exciting of interest in the occultic subcultures.

Thus, for example, amidst all the charming details you have repulsion at every turn. The character Ron seeks to cast a spell which returns on himself, making him vomit slugs; the ghost of a girl lives in toilet, excremental references are not uncommon, urination is no longer an off-limits topic and rudeness between students of Hogwarts is routine. In volume four in particular, dear friend, thesetrends are in evidence with added spice of sexuality infered refnces such as ‘private parts’ and the students pairing off and ‘going into the bushes’. All of this inappropriate material in books who’s primary target group is children! The consistent use of such repulsive details surely has the effect of lowering a child’s instinctive aversion to the grotesque and horrible.

Again, dear friend, student witches and wizards are taught to use their wands to cast hexes and spells to alter their environments, punish small foes, and defend themselves against more sinister enemies. In potions class they learn how to make brews to control others and herbology they grow plants that are used in the potions, the roots of the mandrake, for example, are small living babies who scream when they are uprooted for transplanting, which could at least cause desensitization to abortion.

The Potter character himself is hardly a good role model. He blackmails his uncle, uses trickery and deception, and feels free to break ‘a hundred rules’ (to quote the mildly censorious but ultimately approving Dumbledore). He frequently tells lies to extricate himself from trouble, and allows himself to be provoked into revenge against his student enemies, indeed, he ‘hates’ his enemies. Now the reader soon finds himself forgiving Potter for this because his tormentors are vindictive and mocking. In what can only be described as a consistent display of authorial overkill Rowling depicts such ‘bad’ characters as ugly in appearance. She also smugly indulges in a great deal of sneering at the Dursleys for being fat and makes sport of the oafish bodies of the students that oppress Potter. In these details, dear friend, and a plethora of others throughout the series, the child reader is fostered in his baser instincts, whilst lip service is paid to morality. In point of fact, nowhere in this inferior series do you have any reference to a system of moral absolutes against which action can be weighed. True, there are ‘ethics’ and ‘values’ aplenty in the tales but in the final analysis they are little more than an ethos. To put it quite simply what you have is materialists magic - magic a naturalized human power.

There will, of course, be those who will doubt that child readers will see all of this in the series, but it may affect them on a subconscious level and insiduously indoctrinate them, slowly corrupting their impressionable minds. These books are an example of culturally unhealthy reading material and Catholics would be strongly advised to give them a very wide berth indeed.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

I was just about to say the exact same thing - LOL!

Thanks for a really great post and I agree 100%. Finally, some intelligence on the topic.

I just heard 2 weeks ago, that an exorcist priest performed nine exorcisms last year. The common denominator in all 9 cases? …All homes contained the full Harry Potter Series of books. …just sayin’…

 

[Baelor]

I was just about to say the exact same thing - LOL!

Thanks for a really great post and I agree 100%. Finally, some intelligence on the topic.

I just heard 2 weeks ago, that an exorcist priest performed nine exorcisms last year. The common denominator in all 9 cases? …All homes contained the full Harry Potter Series of books. …just sayin’…

I am also told that most houses contain chairs, but no one seems to be linking those to demonic possession.

 

[ljsedivy]

The absurdity of it all: right now, as we speak, there are millions of scientists hard at work in laboratories across the world doing the most tedious and painstaking research to cure diseases.

Yet we think that there are “magical spells” that could produce the same results?

Come now, let’s get real. Ouija boards, psychics, spells… all a bunch of ridiculous superstition that is totally unsubstantiated.

If you don’t want your children growing up to be Wiccans, there’s one simple step: embrace reason.

WOW!!! I’m speechless.

 

[PRmerger]

This whole thread, from beginning to end, is quite amusing and it strikes me that some of the posts may be intentionally troll-esque.

Indeed.

This proposition renders the vast majority of the classical canon like the Illiad, the Odyssey, Metamorphoses, and just about every other major classical work apparently “evil”, despite the fact that many of the most brilliant and educated church scholars and supporters probably read such material and knew it by heart. It also condemns, as others have pointed out, the prominent Christian writers Tolkien and Lewis to sin–how dare they spread the demonic wind of “magic”!

And, I add, it renders Mother Goose evil, for geese can’t talk. How magical/occult is that!

Not to mention Jesus and His Church are never mentioned in any of her rhymes.

 

[PRmerger]

I just heard 2 weeks ago, that an exorcist priest performed nine exorcisms last year. The common denominator in all 9 cases? …All homes contained the full Harry Potter Series of books. …just sayin’…

Source?

Did these homes also have Bibles?

 

[jimmy]

wouldn’t know, rarely ever look at these threads with harry potter in the title, yet the rare occasions i have done over the last number of years, could almost guarantee the posters that will be there, defending harry, almost seems like a religion with them at this stage.

This statement of yours is hard to understand. You should rephrase it. What is guaranteed? That posters will be there? That is pretty obvious. Why would anyone post a thread if there wouldn’t be posters in it? That those posters defend Harry Potter? Again, why would anyone post a thread about the topic if no one defended it?

The problem with these threads is the irrational extremism of those who oppose Harry Potter. They are essentially opposed to everything fantastical, and they live a sheltered life seperated from the real world. They see the devil in everything. It’s a massive conspiracy by JK Rowlings to convert all of their children to wicca.

 

[jimmy]

I was just about to say the exact same thing - LOL!

Thanks for a really great post and I agree 100%. Finally, some intelligence on the topic.

I just heard 2 weeks ago, that an exorcist priest performed nine exorcisms last year. The common denominator in all 9 cases? …All homes contained the full Harry Potter Series of books. …just sayin’…

So what? The last book sold over 8 million copies in the US on the first day alone, and you are suprised that 9 people had the books?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

what has match sticks or exorcists to do with my post or idolatary of harry pottter.

Just the fact that religious critics have a cult-like obsession with all of the above.

 

[Marc_Anthony]

I just heard 2 weeks ago, that an exorcist priest performed nine exorcisms last year. The common denominator in all 9 cases? …All homes contained the full Harry Potter Series of books. …just sayin’…

Are you serious? Do you have any idea how popular that series is? You know what another common denominator probably was? The Bible.

Seriously, corelation doesn’t equal causation.

As for Portrait, I’m sorry, I don’t dislike him (or her) but everything he or she says about fantasy in general is totally ridiculous and only worth addressing because for some reason people take him seriously.

 

[Marc_Anthony]

Dear Marc Anthony,

Cordial greetings and a very good day.

You too.

Whatever morals/virtues that are to be found within the pages of the Potter series are only an inheritance from Christianity

Yes, exactly.

…and surivive only as a humanistic ethos, a mere vestige of what they once were. However, it admits of no doubt that the Potter books are not a Christian metaphor, as John Granger (a staunch Pro-Potter defender) contends. That, dear friend, is an entirely superficial understanding of the books and a very selective reading of certain details in them; effectively it ignores an overwhelming amount of detail that contradicts the positive values and Christian symbols.

It’s not a specifically Christian book. It’s not an allegory. It’s a book. If you get to the heart of what the books are about you’ll see that they’re about the power of sacrificial love, the importance of family, and the importance of standing up and doing what’s right in the face of evil even when you’re afraid. Magic isn’t on the list at all.

Many who are so desperate to defend these Potter books to the death, strain to find redeeming qualities within the pages of this profoundly disordered children’s series. Now of course, dear friend, in a book series with over 4200 pages there will be details that will reinforce the arguments of the pro-Potterite camp, this I would not stop to deny, but it demands blindness to the other unhappy dimensions within the book.

You really think I have to work hard to think of things? It’s pretty easy considering it’s such a positive series to begin with.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

Well Portrait, thanks for the good wishes, but I’m afraid that your posts get no less ridiculous each time I read them.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Thanks for a really great post and I agree 100%. Finally, some intelligence on the topic.

Believing that wooden sticks can shoot what is essentially a taser shot. Yeah. Intelligent.

I just heard 2 weeks ago, that an exorcist priest performed nine exorcisms last year. The common denominator in all 9 cases? …All homes contained the full Harry Potter Series of books. …just sayin’…

Did this story mention Pokemon too? (Seriously folks, I think I’ve heard of this one before and it actually does mention Pokemon.)

This whole thread, from beginning to end, is quite amusing and it strikes me that some of the posts may be intentionally troll-esque.

Out of all the rather shoddy and weak body of modern fiction, the Harry Potter series is one of the least threatening pieces to the Roman Catholic Church. Its opponents’ chief and most reasonable (though still only spaciously so) argument against it is that it contains magic and because the Church is against magic the series is immoral.

This proposition renders the vast majority of the classical canon like the Illiad, the Odyssey, Metamorphoses, and just about every other major classical work apparently “evil”, despite the fact that many of the most brilliant and educated church scholars and supporters probably read such material and knew it by heart. It also condemns, as others have pointed out, the prominent Christian writers Tolkien and Lewis to sin–how dare they spread the demonic wind of “magic”!

Even if you remain determined to reject magic in literature, at the same time rejecting a huge portion of almost universally adored and respected works in the world, you are still on shaky ground. The magic in Harry Potter is not occult magic–it is morally neutral magic that merely acts a tool (granted potentially a weapon and THEN sinful). Furthermore, the books use magic as nothing more than a device to convey Rowling’s key themes: one, sacrificial love conquers all evil and two, our moral choices in life not only show the world who we are but also determine our path in the afterlife. These ideas would almost without a doubt be universally accepted by every serious churchman if they would look past their own foolish prejudices.

I’m not here to argue the books’ literary merit because they obviously have their flaws: often awful diction and simple characters, to name a couple. But there is absolutely NO moral delimma presented by reading these books. None! Only if you accept the rather spurious doctrine that, “All things lead away from God, so avoid EVERYTHING except prayer,” can you possibly argue against these books.

Now THIS is intelligent.

Although, I would not think that magic is still sinful even if it is used for evil. Rephrasing a certain pro-gun argument…

“Spells don’t kill people… I do. conjures le gigantic fireball >B(”

 

[Marc_Anthony]

I am also told that most houses contain chairs, but no one seems to be linking those to demonic possession.

And let’s not forget TV’s. :bigyikes:

(Why yes, that WAS a “Poltergeist” reference. )