Harry Potter

[jimmy]

This thread seems to encourage the thesis of a thread I created on whether a person can be too religious. It seems apparent that I was right from this thread.

 

[Marc_Anthony]

Only after Harry has tried this does he finally, for the very first time, cast a fatal spell and kill Voldemort, having exhausted all other options.

Actually, he never kills Voldemort. Voldemort attempts to kill him when the elder wand backfires. Harry was only trying to disarm Voldemort with expelliarmus.

 

[Baelor]

The universe created in the Potter series is one of the occult and sadly reveals a moral ambivalence at work.

Cite examples from the book. Any whatsoever will do.

thus even Rowling’s fantasy world still needs to reinforce the laws of the moral universe.

What does it mean for a fantasy world “to reinforce the laws of the moral universe?” Please tell me specifically how I can tell whether a book is doing this.

Your analogy with the force of gravity does not stand up to scrutiny, since gravity is not a malevolent power whilst occultic magic decidedly is, for it is intentionally used to harm people.

Portrait, I am not quite sure why you seem incapable of grasping a very basic concept. Perhaps if I make it bold and in red it may be easier for you to process.

Rowling’s magic is not the same as magic in the real world.

Thus, my analogy with the force of gravity does in fact stand up to scrutiny, since Rowling’s magic is not a malevolent power nor is it in any way occult.

You are more than welcome to disprove either of those statements using examples from the book.

The witchcraft and wizardry in Rowling’s Potter tales must still conform to the laws of the moral universe, as I stated above.

How does one determine whether they do?

Moreover, in Potter-world the characters are engaged in activities which in real life corrupt us, darken the mind, weaken the will and pull the practioner down into spiritual bondage.

That is impossible, since no one in real life could ever do what the characters in Harry Potter do. If you disagree, please cite specific examples from the book.

The very sad truth is, though it may not be pleasant to contemplate, that there are real people in the real world that practice witchcraft, who cast spells, perform rituals and observe results.

This is irrelevant. Rowling’s magic is not occult in nature nor does it have any fundamental basis in real world occult activities. If you disagree, cite specific examples from the book.

Now the problem which many sincere Catholics (not wide-eyed Fundamentalists) have with these Potter books is that Rowling writes as if such powers can be channeled into good, and herein lies the danger.

She does no such thing – none of her magic is ever able to be reproduced in the real world, so there is no suggestion whatsoever that “such powers can be channeled into good.” If you disagree, cite specific examples from the book.

Rituals, spells and brews are used in the real world of witchcraft and only work because of the power of evil spirits.

Even if they did work (which I see no reason to believe), they would not work with 100% reliability without evil spirits. In the Harry Potter universe, magic does not stem from evil spirits. Ergo, Rowling’s magic is not occult in nature. If you disagree with any of this, cite specific examples from the book.

You have simply disproved yourself.

This being the case they can never result in good and portraying these innately evil activities as if somehow they could be harnessed for good is, once again, a dangerous lie and renders the books culturally unhealthy reading material for young children.

Fortunately, Rowling never does portray a foray into actual occult activities as good.

Evidently his remarks respecting Potter were not welcome because coverage of his warnings were significantly downplayed. It seems that men do not wish to hear the truth, even when it comes from a reliable and sound source!

He is not a reliable source.

thus if Father Amorth had said something that was so obviously outrageous and so wide of the mark, then one would have expected him to have had his knuckles wrapped.

Not so – you argue time and time again that although the Vatican has not ruled against women being outside their homes, working as mothers, wearing clothes you find immodest, nevertheless your condemnations of those are morally valid. My counterclaim has remained, consistently, that these are such common and perennial issues that were your position correct, we could have expected a clear teaching from the Vatican in the last 2000 years that is found in the current teaching. You cannot both disagree with me and agree with me on the same issue in the same way.

The fact remains that the Vatican does not respond to every statement made by clergy. The Vatican has not condemned the Harry Potter books, and there is no reason to believe that Father Amorth would be reprimanded for such a statement if it is false, which it is.

Having been involved in several debates on *Harry Potter *

here at CAF, I have always endeavoured to provide what I believe are cogent reasons for giving these books a very wide berth.

None of those reasons involve any evidence whatsoever.

Certainly it is accurate to say is that men have strongly disagreed with those reasons, but that is quite another matter from not providing any

evidence.

You have provided literally no evidence whatsoever. Not a single one of your claims is substantiated in any way with any evidence whatsoever. We are discussing a book. The evidence involves material from the book. You have provided exactly none, and therefore the amount of evidence you have provided is also none. You are more than welcome to change that at any time, but you choose not to. We all know exactly why.

 

[Baelor]

Baelor, I am sorry that you object to my use of ‘dear friend’, but I can assure you that it was only ever intended as a term of brotherly affection during our discussions.

I sure that it was, but you could display your affection instead of offering me lip service by actually responding to what I am saying and not ignoring it in favor of your vague condemnations.

If you want to display charity, do what others are asking you to do: provide evidence from the Harry Potter books about any of the things you claim the series says. Surely you are lying to us when you suggest that you have provided evidence – how could you possibly believe that you have provided evidence when you have not mentioned a single instance of anything whatsoever in the series related to your claims thereupon?

 

[Portrait]

This thread seems to encourage the thesis of a thread I created on whether a person can be too religious. It seems apparent that I was right from this thread.

Dear jimmy,

Cordial greetings and a very good day.

All of the faithful are called to the pursuit of holiness and the writer to the Hebrews exhorted us to, “Follow peace with all men and holiness without which no man shall see the Lord” (Heb. 12: 14). Therefore the Christian life would seem to involve being earnestly religious - “Therefore, brethren, be the more zealous to confirm your call and election, for if you do this you will never fall” (II Pet. 2: 10).

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[StGandalf]

While fantasy does not equal reality, I think it is important to remember that JK Rowling was fairly knowledgable on the occult and other dark practises. She studied many of these thing in a historical capacity at university, and has admitted she did them personally interesting.

She has also admitted, that she was influenced heavily in her writing, by real practices, and real “magic”. Yes, the characters and such are fictitious. But some of the many rituals and items contained in the series, are VERY real.

I think that exposing children to these things can potent entirely be dangerous, simply because it get them interested in things that they may later find out are real. Since they had been painted in a colourful and “fun” light in the books, they may be even more tempted later on to begin looking into practicing these things.

Yes, probably a pessimistic look at it, but I think it’s important to look at both sides.

 

[StGandalf]

No not really. JRR Tolkien was a philologist. The study of languages is very different to the study of the occult. JRR Tolkien was interested in Celtic and other European “civilisations” culture, history, and especially their language.

The way he portrays magic and the use of it in all his works, is very different to the way Rowling does.

Also important, is the fact that almost all Tolkien’s works were set in a fictitious world, where he can make happen whatever he wants.

Rowling’s, is set in the real world, and so demands at least some realism. This, she provides, and does so based on her vast knowledge of the real world occult.

 

[Armor_of_Light]

Hello everyone-

This is my first go-round with a Harry Potter thread. I think by purposeful avoidance and conscious choice. I have never read the books or seen the movies. Not my thing…

I’d like to jump in and defend Portrait, or at least offer a compliment and some perspective.

My first reading of one of your posts, Portrait was regarding music. A subject close to my heart indeed, having been a musician and avid music fan my whole life. I read your responses and fell into the same catagory as most of the people responding to you here. But, I replayed some of those posts over and over in my head and digested them for a while. You were correct then and you are correct now, and I implore the people on this thread to consider the wisdom and (flawless) logic so eloquently stated in Portraits responses.

Whatever does not lead us towards God leads us away from God. I am questioning if there is anything neutral at all. The media and entertainment we willingly ingest regularly leads us away, often without our explicit cooperation. We must become sensitive to it!

What I see in Portraits responses is a level of true Christian charity that is to be applauded. I pray we can all ‘level up’ to that degree of scrutiny when choosing what to watch, listen to, read and surf.

When my own sons were smaller and watching / reading the Harry Potter stuff (their mother allowed it) I saw them run around casting spells, and yelling ‘specto petronum!’ or whatever it is, and thought nothing of it. But…it is just a short jump away into Ouija boards…after all “It’s just for fun”. No sir.

I’d rather have them read the lives of the Saints and run around saying “Pax Vobiscum”.

So…I like to read Portraits insights on these topics. Our consciences get a little soft and we let our guard down, and the filth comes pouring in. Nothing wrong with our brother calling us out from time to time.

 

[Razanir]

Before I begin, you still haven’t shown any evidence actually quoting the books.

Your analogy with the force of gravity does not stand up to scrutiny, since gravity is not a malevolent power whilst occultic magic decidedly is, for it is intentionally used to harm people.

Like we’ve said before, the magic in Harry Potter has no specific origin. If it is of occult origin, it is never said to be so. A better comparison than gravity, may be the Force in Star Wars. The Force, too, is portrayed as a mystic power source that is as much a law of the universe as, once again, gravity.

The witchcraft and wizardry in Rowling’s Potter tales must still conform to the laws of the moral universe, as I stated above. As an author Rowling cannot disregard those God-given laws and adopt her own laws for the series, at least not without rendering her work unsatisfactory and unsound from a Christian standpoint.

While she should not adopt her own laws, yes, not every author needs to be as allegorical as Lewis. And for that matter, I find the sheer concentration on allegory in Narnia annoying at times, and as such, prefer Lord of the Rings.

In addition to Rowling’s use of the symbol world of the occult as her primary metaphor and occultic activities as the dramatic engine of her plots, which I adverted to in an earlier post, you have a class in Divination and hexes freely used. Moreover, in Potter-world the characters are engaged in activities which in real life corrupt us, darken the mind, weaken the will and pull the practitioner down into spiritual bondage. What is most disturbing is that the heroes/heroines plunge ever deeper into that world without displaying any negative side effects, only an increase in ‘character’. This is a lie, indeed, it is a satanic lie which deceived our very first parents in Eden.

If magic was occultic in Harry Potter, this would be a sound argument. However, that has yet to be proven the case. I refer you to my Force analogy again.

Moreover, can we really baptize the symbols and activities of the realm of darkness without any negative effects? We are no longer the early Christians cleansing a classical temple and consecrating it for sacred use as a church. On the contrary, we are in the midst of a social revolution that is assailing the truly sacred and degrading it at every turn.

Christmas and Easter. Both have Pagan practices that were christened into the Church.

The very sad truth is, though it may not be pleasant to contemplate, that there are real people in the real world that practice witchcraft, who cast spells, perform rituals and observe results. Now the problem which many sincere Catholics (not wide-eyed Fundamentalists) have with these Potter books is that Rowling writes as if such powers can be channeled into good, and herein lies the danger. Rituals, spells and brews are used in the real world of witchcraft and only work because of the power of evil spirits. This being the case they can never result in good and portraying these innately evil activities as if somehow they could be harnessed for good is, once again, a dangerous lie and renders the books culturally unhealthy reading material for young children.

In the real world. In Harry Potter, magic is a law of the universe.

As regards Father Amorth, many of us believe that a man who has had decades of experience in directly combating evil, deserves to be listened to, since if any man can detect the unwholesome and dark elements within the Potter tales then he surely can. It is, after all, his area of expertise. Evidently his remarks respecting Potter were not welcome because coverage of his warnings were significantly downplayed. It seems that men do not wish to hear the truth, even when it comes from a reliable and sound source!

True, the Vatican office does not respond to every statement by a member of the clergy, but this is an issue over which there has been much heated debate within the Catholic world and media, thus if Father Amorth had said something that was so obviously outrageous and so wide of the mark, then one would have expected him to have had his knuckles wrapped. At any rate, the Vatican has not officially approved of the Potter books, but has left the matter to the prudential judgment of individual Catholics. Men are free to negatively appraise these Potter books, as Father Amorth has done.

Men are also free to positively appraise them.

Having been involved in several debates on *Harry Potter *here at CAF, I have always endeavoured to provide what I believe are cogent reasons for giving these books a very wide berth. Certainly it is accurate to say is that men have strongly disagreed with those reasons, but that is quite another matter from not providing any evidence.

I’m actually in a class this semester about arguments. In the Toulmin Model, the three main parts for supporting the claim are grounds, warrants and backing. The important part here is your claim that Harry Potter magic is occultic, upon which your whole argument hinges. What you have yet to provide is any sort of ground or backing proving this to be the case.

So in short, Portrait, I have two main questions:

1. From where in the books do you claim their magic is occult?
2. What do you think of Star Wars and its all-penetrating Force and the monistic Jedi religion that follows?

And please, you have a great day as well. :tiphat:

 

[StGandalf]

I said “and other European civilisations” because he was interested in quite a few, but yes you’re right, his primary interest was Anglo-Saxon.

I’m afraid that yes they are set in the real world. It’s quite obvious that they are set in the real world. Rowling herself said they were set in the real world, but the “magic” part, was only viewable to “wizards and witches”. CS Lewis’s writings dabble in the ideas of alternate universes, and even parallel universes. Tolkien’s on the other hand, are set in a come rely different world, or some people have suggested that it could have been far in the past of this world.

In any case, Rowling is clearly mixing the real world and the occult, in a rather realistic way. To the casual observer, the occult may not obvious. It is not until you begin to delve into the study and use of it that it becomes apparent. This I’m afraid, is encouraging children to explore things that the Church is clearly against. While she is not encouraging it directly, children can very impressionable, and as other posters have said, will often imitate what they read in books. Rowling’s books are unfortunately, too real to be imitated innocently.

 

[jimmy]

I said “and other European civilisations” because he was interested in quite a few, but yes you’re right, his primary interest was Anglo-Saxon.

I’m afraid that yes they are set in the real world. It’s quite obvious that they are set in the real world. Rowling herself said they were set in the real world, but the “magic” part, was only viewable to “wizards and witches”. CS Lewis’s writings dabble in the ideas of alternate universes, and even parallel universes. Tolkien’s on the other hand, are set in a come rely different world, or some people have suggested that it could have been far in the past of this world.

In any case, Rowling is clearly mixing the real world and the occult, in a rather realistic way. To the casual observer, the occult may not obvious. It is not until you begin to delve into the study and use of it that it becomes apparent. This I’m afraid, is encouraging children to explore things that the Church is clearly against. While she is not encouraging it directly, children can very impressionable, and as other posters have said, will often imitate what they read in books. Rowling’s books are unfortunately, too real to be imitated innocently.

What is specifically occultish in the books? Running around with a stick yelling avendesora?

HP isn’t very real. Goblins, warewolves, vampires, centaurs, unicorns and other things are part of HP. Last I checked none of this was part of the real world. The only real aspect is that the British culture runs parallel to the magic world.

 

[triumphguy]

Of course you all know, as well read Catholics,that many protestant types believe and indeed preach that Catholicism is only one step away from voodoo, and that Catholics are enslaved by the occult and idolatry.

Remember a point of view is only a view from a point.

I think the HP series is a “good read” but not “great literature.”

BTW I’ve read CS Lewis, the Hobbit and the 3 volumes of LOTR to my kids as well as a ton of other books, as well as a couple of volumes of HP.

I would just exhort parents to read to their kids, answer their questions, and help them find great literature.

 

[jimmy]

Of course you all know, as well read Catholics,that many protestant types believe and indeed preach that Catholicism is only one step away from voodoo, and that Catholics are enslaved by the occult and idolatry.

Remember a point of view is only a view from a point.

I think the HP series is a “good read” but not “great literature.”

BTW I’ve read CS Lewis, the Hobbit and the 3 volumes of LOTR to my kids as well as a ton of other books, as well as a couple of volumes of HP.

I would just exhort parents to read to their kids, answer their questions, and help them find great literature.

Good post. That is the sane approach.

 

[StGandalf]

What is specifically occultish in the books?

Are you trying to be funny or…?

 

[StGandalf]

I think the HP series is a “good read” but not “great literature.”

This.

 

[mafeifan]

Do you think the Harry Potter series is a bad influence on children (witchcraft, etc.) or is it just harmless fun and fantasy?

How do we know that no part of it is real? A lot of children and even adults practice the occult in ignorance.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Are you trying to be funny or…?

In all seriousness, what you are describing is very much what Tolkien did. And no, he was not just interested in language. He did scholarly work on mythology and ancient folklore. Heck, I’ve done that for my own degree! Everyone in the field does. That is not the same as actually accepting some lost, superstitious nature religion.

On the contrary, once you take that and apply it to your fiction, the occult elements vanish. The way Rowling, Tolkien, and many other fantasy authors mix mythological tropes actually do something at the fundamental level.

Take ninja hand seals for instance. Originally, they are known as kuji in and are used in Eastern religious practice.

However, in many works featuring ninjas, they are used as a sort of activation code for special techniques. Notice, at the fundamental level, how the hand signs themselves have lost their occult significance. You went from religious use to practical (or more specifically in this case, combat) utilization in less than a second.

It’s the same with whatever ‘real occult’ parallel with Harry Potter. Only the outer shell remains but inside, the essence, is no more different from how we use technology.

How do we know that no part of it is real? A lot of children and even adults practice the occult in ignorance.

I have yet to see proof that waving a stick reciting Stupefy counts as an occult practice.

 

[Pheonix]

I think the HP series is a “good read” but not “great literature.”

Well, I think what constitutes as “great literature” is a subjective matter. I thought The Great Gatsby was an excellent book, but my best friend couldn’t stand it. One of my friends absolutely adores The Scarlet Letter, but I think it’s absolutely horrid. I, personally, wouldn’t put Harry Potter on the same level as Frankenstein or Beowulf. Some do, though, and there’s nothing wrong with that.

But either way, we’re not arguing about whether Harry Potter should be considered a children’s classic.

BTW I’ve read CS Lewis, the Hobbit and the 3 volumes of LOTR to my kids as well as a ton of other books, as well as a couple of volumes of HP.

Should I ever have children, I plan on doing the same thing.

I would just exhort parents to read to their kids, answer their questions, and help them find great literature.

A very sane and commendable approach.

 

[Portrait]

F.A.O. Pheonix

Dear Pheonix,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Hope all is well, especially after Hurricane Sandy, and that things are gradually returning to some semblance of normality now.

Thankyou for your responses, dear friend. Let me just say at the outset that neither I, nor any man who has written a thoughtful critique of the Potter books, has ever suggested that there is a formal religion of witchcraft as such within the tales… However, we must needs ask, how does secular culture today understand and define ‘spiritual’, the immaterial, unseen force, a power that interfaces with human existence? By this definition the Potter series is replete with religion. Moreover, the whole issue must be viewed within the context of the modern world, where materialism has, alas, blurred the lines between formal religion and spiritualities. Something for the Potter fans to ponder this weekend at any rate.

Many practices (hexes, rituals and brews etc.) within the books are the same as the real thing, exceept they are sanitized and made to appear scary but fun, without any long-term consequences. Admittedly, they do show that some activities can be physically dangerous, but the dominant message throughout is that if one has sufficient knowledge and skill then one can survive the dangers.

May I just say, dear friend, that I find it most disturbing that Rowling consistently portrays those characters who are either critical or fearful of magic as vicious abusers or utterly ignorant. Is this some sort of oblique authorial pre-emptive strike against any who would dare to negatively critique her work?, or is it perhaps an attempt to soften the child reader’s instinctive aversion to what is horrible?. Or is Rowling trying to subtly override whatever cautions against witchcraft and sorcery a child may have learned from his parents or Holy Mother Church? For example, the Dursley’s are utterly despicable characters and decidedly against magic. In volume four we learn Voldemort, the archtype of radical evil, began his life as a student named Riddle, whom the author informs us was abandoned by his father as a child - and, that his father was against magic. To put it quite simply, the greatest evils, according to the narrative, have their root cause in the anti-magic types. What message is that sort of stuff conveying to young children? Sounds very much like trying to stir up some prejudice.

There is also the issue of the curriculum: some of the book titles in Harry Potter’s training are appropriated from the real world of witchcraft. This I find most unsettling, dear friend, because children can ‘google’ those titles on the interweb and be instantly connected to a variety of sights offering them portals into the real world of witchcraft, sorcery and even overt Satanism. As Catholic parents, does this really sit comfortably with the profession of Christ’s most holy religion and, for that matter, is it even compatible with it?

Now I would freely admit that at first glance the Potter books do appear to disconnect witchcraft from the spiritual and present it as all jolly exciting stuff and not the least bit spiritually harmful. However, herein lies the danger because it makes the Potter series potentially more corrupting by giving to the child reader a false sense of what witchcraft is all about and by treating a grave topic in a flippant manner.

There can be no doubt that the Potter series is decidedly culturally unhealthy reading material and therefore cannot be considered a valuable contribution to culture, least of all the world of children’s literature. There is, I think, an overreliance nowaday’s upon individual reason, as if to say, “I am an intelligent chap and my child is jolly intelligent and discerning, so do not insult our intelligence. We are quite able to enjoy that which is irrational and corrupt and still remain impervious to any high moral damage of which it may be the cause, therefore it is not really corrupt at all QED”. Sadly this *non sequiter *is based upon the mistaken notion that the imagination can always be contained within some air-tight compartment of the mind.

Perhaps the number of children who step from Potter-world to the actual world of darkness is relatively small, as I said in a previous post. However, given the immense world-wide popularity and phenomenal sales of the Potter series of books, even a small minority of readers, who’s interest in the occult was first stimulated by Potter, still adds up to a great many souls for whom our Saviour died. Even a single lost child is a monumental tragedy and, speaking for myself as a Catholic, I would not wish to put into the hands of my child any book that had even the remotest possibilty of arousing interest in the occultic subcultures. If it be said by way of response that the Potter books also portray the qualities of courage and love in the ‘good’ characters, I would reply by saying that courage and love can be found exhibited in all peoples, even those steeped in the worst forms of paganism. The presence of such virtues can hardly justify an error-filled work of children’s fiction.

It is admits of no doubt, dear friend, that cultural influences such as Film, TV and books play no small part in the lowering of spiritual vigilance, and this is most certainly the case with young children who are in a state of formation. The problem with these Potter books is that they interface just closely with the actual world of witchcraft and all its attendant evil, which is why, of course, Father Gabreil Amorth, denounced it in the strongest terms: “Behind Harry Potter hides the signature of the king of darkness, the Devil”.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[Razanir]

Many practices (hexes, rituals and brews etc.) within the books are the same as the real thing, except they are sanitized and made to appear scary but fun, without any long-term consequences. Admittedly, they do show that some activities can be physically dangerous, but the dominant message throughout is that if one has sufficient knowledge and skill then one can survive the dangers.

I actually have looked this up on line before. Real-world magic seems a lot more ritualistic than waving a stick and saying Stupefy. And before you go ad hominem and use me as an example. This was unrelated to Harry Potter. One of my friends became Wiccan and I wanted to know more about what it actually means.

May I just say, dear friend, that I find it most disturbing that Rowling consistently portrays those characters who are either critical or fearful of magic as vicious abusers or utterly ignorant.

People who hate magic:
-The Dursleys
-Tom Riddle, Sr.

Is this some sort of oblique authorial pre-emptive strike against any who would dare to negatively critique her work?, or is it perhaps an attempt to soften the child reader’s instinctive aversion to what is horrible?. … For example, the Dursley’s are utterly despicable characters and decidedly against magic. In volume four we learn Voldemort, the archtype of radical evil, began his life as a student named Riddle, whom the author informs us was abandoned by his father as a child - and, that his father was against magic. To put it quite simply, the greatest evils, according to the narrative, have their root cause in the anti-magic types. What message is that sort of stuff conveying to young children? Sounds very much like trying to stir up some prejudice.

-Petunia’s anti-magic attitudes are justified in the book. Part of them stem from jealousy that Lily got powers but she didn’t
-Tom Sr. hated magic because Merope used a love potion to make him fall in love with her
(And by the way. Harry has his root in the Dursleys. He’s not evil)

At the same time, however, many pure-bloods (primarily the Death Eaters) hate Muggles (non-magical folk) to a level of Nazi anti-Semitism.

There is also the issue of the curriculum: some of the book titles in Harry Potter’s training are appropriated from the real world of witchcraft. This I find most unsettling, dear friend, because children can ‘google’ those titles on the interweb and be instantly connected to a variety of sights offering them portals into the real world of witchcraft, sorcery and even overt Satanism.

Just ran a Google search for “Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone” (British title because I was feeling British). Movie pages on various websites, the book’s page on wikipedia, movie posters, spark notes, one result for the video game… Where’s the Satanic stuff you claim comes up?

Now I would freely admit that at first glance the Potter books do appear to disconnect witchcraft from the spiritual and present it as all jolly exciting stuff and not the least bit spiritually harmful. However, herein lies the danger because it makes the Potter series potentially more corrupting by giving to the child reader a false sense of what witchcraft is all about and by treating a grave topic in a flippant manner.

The Witch of Endor. By your logic, one could also argue to ban the Bible or at least the Book of Samuel. And can you please try to refrain from using flippant? I have an insane neighbor who used the word frequently, so I have a hard time taking it seriously.

There can be no doubt that the Potter series is decidedly culturally unhealthy reading material and therefore cannot be considered a valuable contribution to culture, least of all the world of children’s literature. … Sadly this *non sequiter *is based upon the mistaken notion that the imagination can always be contained within some air-tight compartment of the mind.

Imagination is not in an air-tight corner of the mind, no. That doesn’t mean that by reading something potentially bad that we’re going to try to imitate it. Would you at least agree that most sane people can tell the difference between real and not real? (And yes, that WAS a stealth Hunger Games reference)

Perhaps the number of children who step from Potter-world to the actual world of darkness is relatively small, as I said in a previous post. However, given the immense world-wide popularity and phenomenal sales of the Potter series of books, even a small minority of readers, who’s interest in the occult was first stimulated by Potter, still adds up to a great many souls for whom our Saviour died. Even a single lost child is a monumental tragedy and, speaking for myself as a Catholic, I would not wish to put into the hands of my child any book that had even the remotest possibilty of arousing interest in the occultic subcultures. If it be said by way of response that the Potter books also portray the qualities of courage and love in the ‘good’ characters, I would reply by saying that courage and love can be found exhibited in all peoples, even those steeped in the worst forms of paganism. The presence of such virtues can hardly justify an error-filled work of children’s fiction.

Again. The Witch of Endor. My other argument that you have yet to respond to is Star Wars. What do you think of the Force?

Also, for all of the arguments based in the book, where? You have yet to provide us with very many specific examples. The only one I’ve seen is Voldemort’s backstory