Harry Potter

[Rand_Al_Thor]

Pax tecum!

Tom, you are really grasping at straws here. The Church’s ability to speak on the Bible is an infallible truth and a dogma of the Church. Harry Potter is not. You are also setting up more strawmen than I care to address. For one, I am not talking about liberal Catholics and their opinions on anything and there is absolutely no connection between them and the HP books. I also said nothing about our own opinions being the only ones that matter and I have no idea where you got that from. What I said is that when commenting on a book, one should read the book so that they know what is in it so that they can make a more informed statement.

Also, the authors you mention DID read the Bible “for themselves”. Another strawman, because I am not saying that only our OWN opinions are worthwhile. What I am saying is that for someone to give advice about a book or express an opinion about a book, they should read it first.

The US Bishops did not give the HP movies a morally offensive rating. And Cardinal Ratzinger, if I remember correctly, was opposed to the books not because of the magic in them, but because of some rule breaking not setting a good example for children.

In Christ,
Rand

 

[Tom317]

Pax tecum!

Tom, you are really grasping at straws here. The Church’s ability to speak on the Bible is an infallible truth and a dogma of the Church. Harry Potter is not. You are also setting up more strawmen than I care to address. For one, I am not talking about liberal Catholics and their opinions on anything and there is absolutely no connection between them and the HP books. I also said nothing about our own opinions being the only ones that matter and I have no idea where you got that from. What I said is that when commenting on a book, one should read the book so that they know what is in it so that they can make a more informed statement.

The US Bishops did not give the HP movies a morally offensive rating. And Cardinal Ratzinger, if I remember correctly, was opposed to the books not because of the magic in them, but because of some rule breaking not setting a good example for children.

In Christ,
Rand

No, not grasping at straws, just trying to open your eyes. How do you know that the Church has that authority when Protestants interpret it differently Seriously, if you read the Bible, you can reject the Church’s authority by interpreting it differently. How do you know?

The point is that it is fully ridiculous position to say one must read every book in which they espouse any opinion, for two reasons: (1) Even if they read the book, they might mis-interpret; (2) They might not have any expertise in the area of the books subject, which makes their view invalid.

If one reads etailed reviews of HP, they have every bit as valid opinion as one who reads the entire book(s).

Further, dis’ing Cardinal Ratzinger’s views about the books is wrong because he certainly is in a far better position to know what is right and wrong then we are. And, the entire task of a Chief Exorcist is to know this subject matter in great depth, and like listening to a doctor’s opinion, we should also listen to the opinions of our spiritual leaders that God has given us.

Funny how people ignore the Pope or a Cardinal or a Chief Exorcist when it is a subject they want to justify in their own lives.

Again, toss those Scott Hahn books away because only your personal view counts in all things, experts mean nothing.

 

[Verita]

I’m not saying one must read a book to have any opinion on it whatever. Read a review and saying “Well, it doesn’t sound like it would interest me” is perfectly fine. However, if you’re going to go around saying that the book is a creation of Satan, which means that it’s author must be a tool of Satan (and that is just being plain insulting), then you had better know a bit more about it than what you heard from someone else.

You brought up Da Vinci Code a while ago. I read it before I condemned it. Because while I agreed with the arguments against it that I had heard, I reserved judgment until I actually saw that there were incorrect things in it to judge.

If this is too hard for you, reading something before you declare it to be of the devil, then I suggest you give up making these judgments altogether and judge not lest ye be judged.

 

[maria29]

**I would highly recommend that this article be read by those of you who have a problem with Harry Potter.It is an interview with Msgr. Peter Fleetwood the one who was qouted as being the source that the Vatican approves of Harry Potter…This is what he has to say about the exorcist statement

"Some of the people who complain to me quote a priest who has worked in Rome and has been described as the exorcist of Rome, saying that evil is just behind every line in the books. Well, I answered that by saying: I’m a priest as well, I’m not as holy as that man, but his is an opinion and mine is an opinion, and neither of us automatically has a right to the opinion being more authorative. I would say you’d have to prove a thing like that, when you say that evil is behind every sentence. I can’t see it.

Maybe I’m blind, as one article about me said, maybe I’m stupid and doing the devil’s work, as another article about me said. I have a funny feeling I’m not doing the devil’s work, and I have another feeling I am not blind or stupid. I just think that there’s a lot of scare-mongering going on, particularly among people who do like to find the devil around every corner. I don’t think that’s a healthy view of the world. And as I said before, I’m one of the people who would name the devil, I don’t keep the devil out of my preaching or out of my understanding of christianity; I’m one of the few that would mention him"

catholicinsider.com/scripts/hp_transcript.php**

 

[Verita]

Great article. Particularly this part:

What my advice would still be to parents: if you’re in doubt, read the books yourselves, the first one, that’s the shortest one, and see what you think. Don’t simply rely on somebody else’s opinion, not even on my opinion, since it’s only an opinion. But it’s probably a good thing to enjoy it and to see that there are no evil influences there.

 

[Horsegirl15]

I am still really on the fence about this.Thanks for all of your opinions though! You have helped me a bit. Here is what I got so far for pros and cons. I have watched the first movie so I have a bit of insight as to what this is all about.

Pros

-Harry only uses incantation which seem to be harmless latin words and doesnt call up spirits

-The evil guys and the good guys are defined

-There are lessons that are learned such as sticking up for your friends,love, and even sacrificing your life

-They celebrate Christmas so I guess they are not totally hethens(dont know if that is the right word)

Cons

-Witchcraft and wizardry is condemned by the Church

-I read a post about some in the names in the books are the names of real demons which disturbed me a bit.Not sure if its true though

• The idea that everybody is condeming the book and saying its bad.I grew up with everybody saying"Harry Potter is evil NEVER read the books or watch the movies"so all those adults saying this to me has obviously affected my desicions.

I wish I had a definite answer to this whole thingsighI dont know if it will ever become clear. I want to ask a priest but that doesnt really help because its just another opinion right? Right now, I guess I say that its more bad than good. Mabye its just because the Church is against magic. This is driving me crazy! When I was younger I went along with everybody else’s views and when my Catholic friends said"I love Harry Potter!" I would be like"You awful Catholic! It is SOOOO bad!". Now I want to find out for myself since im 16 and should be able to decide things for myself.

 

[Tom317]

**I would highly recommend that this article be read by those of you who have a problem with Harry Potter.It is an interview with Msgr. Peter Fleetwood the one who was qouted as being the source that the Vatican approves of Harry Potter…This is what he has to say about the exorcist statement

"Some of the people who complain to me quote a priest who has worked in Rome and has been described as the exorcist of Rome, saying that evil is just behind every line in the books. Well, I answered that by saying: I’m a priest as well, I’m not as holy as that man, but his is an opinion and mine is an opinion, and neither of us automatically has a right to the opinion being more authorative. I would say you’d have to prove a thing like that, when you say that evil is behind every sentence. I can’t see it.

Maybe I’m blind, as one article about me said, maybe I’m stupid and doing the devil’s work, as another article about me said. I have a funny feeling I’m not doing the devil’s work, and I have another feeling I am not blind or stupid. I just think that there’s a lot of scare-mongering going on, particularly among people who do like to find the devil around every corner. I don’t think that’s a healthy view of the world. And as I said before, I’m one of the people who would name the devil, I don’t keep the devil out of my preaching or out of my understanding of christianity; I’m one of the few that would mention him"

catholicinsider.com/scripts/hp_transcript.php**

Just my view, but I would say an Exorcist has an awful lot more to say about this subject then any regular Priest. It is like saying you would equate a family doctor’s views with a surgeons views…they are both doctors, but the surgeons views are very specific, whereas the family doctor simply has a general view of the human body. If a person needed surgery, they would be much better served to listen to the surgeon, and similarily we are much better off listening to a Chief Exorcist versus a regular Priest.

 

[Tom317]

To all,

I am taking time away from the internet and computer to enjoy Advent season. Thank you to all for the chat and may God bless you with a truly Merry Christmas.

 

[Tom317]

I am still really on the fence about this.Thanks for all of your opinions though! You have helped me a bit. Here is what I got so far for pros and cons. I have watched the first movie so I have a bit of insight as to what this is all about.

Pros

-Harry only uses incantation which seem to be harmless latin words and doesnt call up spirits

-The evil guys and the good guys are defined

-There are lessons that are learned such as sticking up for your friends,love, and even sacrificing your life

-They celebrate Christmas so I guess they are not totally hethens(dont know if that is the right word)

Cons

-Witchcraft and wizardry is condemned by the Church

-I read a post about some in the names in the books are the names of real demons which disturbed me a bit.Not sure if its true though

• The idea that everybody is condeming the book and saying its bad.I grew up with everybody saying"Harry Potter is evil NEVER read the books or watch the movies"so all those adults saying this to me has obviously affected my desicions.

I wish I had a definite answer to this whole thingsighI dont know if it will ever become clear. I want to ask a priest but that doesnt really help because its just another opinion right? Right now, I guess I say that its more bad than good. Mabye its just because the Church is against magic. This is driving me crazy! When I was younger I went along with everybody else’s views and when my Catholic friends said"I love Harry Potter!" I would be like"You awful Catholic! It is SOOOO bad!". Now I want to find out for myself since im 16 and should be able to decide things for myself.

Just don’t bother with the books, you are conflicted and there is always a reason for being conflicted. They are only novels and will not add anything to your life, it is not worth feeling conflicted about, just drop and let it go. Just my two cents.

Have a great Christmas.

 

[Verita]

Cons

-Witchcraft and wizardry is condemned by the Church

-I read a post about some in the names in the books are the names of real demons which disturbed me a bit.Not sure if its true though

• The idea that everybody is condeming the book and saying its bad.I grew up with everybody saying"Harry Potter is evil NEVER read the books or watch the movies"so all those adults saying this to me has obviously affected my desicions.

Witchcraft is condemned, but remember this is a fantasy universe. It is not our universe and it operates under different rules. Witchcraft is wrong in our world because it is not something natural that you are given by God, whereas it is in Harry Potter. No, God isn’t mentioned, but the characters are born with their abilities. They can’t be inherently wrong.

None of the names in the books are from demons. They are all either normal names, or from history and mythology for the most part. Sometimes she makes up new names using her knowledge of language. (For instance, Voldemort means “flight from death” in French. The character is terrified of death, which is what leads him down the path of evil.)

I also was told that Harry Potter was evil and was not allowed to read it while I was in my parent’s house. However, once I was old enough to decide for myself I watched the first movie and didn’t see anything wrong with it. There’s nothing in Harry Potter that can’t be found in countless other fantasy stories and fairy tales. Cinderella isn’t evil and yet it has a “fairy godmother” who performs magic using spells. It was after seeing the third movie (which is fantastic) that I decided I liked it so much I had to read the books.

The books are amazing. If you enjoy reading and like fantasy then they are some of the best books you can read. They are extremely well written, the characters are great and the story is original. I love them.

Of course, in the end the choice is yours. If you feel that your faith would be compromised by these books, then don’t read them. But don’t just listen to all the people crying “Evil! Satan!” who haven’t even read them. My opinion is that they are just a bit paranoid.

 

[Verita]

To all,

I am taking time away from the internet and computer to enjoy Advent season. Thank you to all for the chat and may God bless you with a truly Merry Christmas.

Merry Christmas to you.

 

[Horsegirl15]

I dont think I’ll ever read the books and I dont really want to.The movies are what interest me.Actually, I didnt find the plot that amazing. What kept me watching was the characters. I love Hermione and Ron The only reason I am struggling with finding out whether Harry Potter is good or bad is to have an opinion when the subject comes up.Sometimes Ill be at a retreat or something and all the parents will be all"Harry Potter "and they havent read the books at all. I just want to make up my mind since this is such a big issue.

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

Pax tecum!

No, not grasping at straws, just trying to open your eyes. How do you know that the Church has that authority when Protestants interpret it differently Seriously, if you read the Bible, you can reject the Church’s authority by interpreting it differently. How do you know?

Once again (I’m getting tired of repeating myself), the authority of the Church to speak on the interpretation of Scripture (which is a DOGMA) has absolutely NOTHING to do with the HP books. Nothing. And also, once again, I am not talking about one’s own opinion being the only one that is “right”. Please read my posts very carefully because you’re not comprehending what I am saying.

The point is that it is fully ridiculous position to say one must read every book in which they espouse any opinion, for two reasons: (1) Even if they read the book, they might mis-interpret; (2) They might not have any expertise in the area of the books subject, which makes their view invalid.

If one reads etailed reviews of HP, they have every bit as valid opinion as one who reads the entire book(s).

Like Verita said, if someone reads a review and decides, “Oh, I wouldn’t like that book” or “that doesn’t sound very good”, then that’s one thing. If someone says that a book is the work of Satan, or that Satan is hidden behind every word in the book, then they should read it to see if that is really true. That’s what I am saying.

Further, dis’ing Cardinal Ratzinger’s views about the books is wrong because he certainly is in a far better position to know what is right and wrong then we are. And, the entire task of a Chief Exorcist is to know this subject matter in great depth, and like listening to a doctor’s opinion, we should also listen to the opinions of our spiritual leaders that God has given us.

When did I “diss” Cardinal Ratzinger??? The only thing I said about him was that he hadn’t read the books and was opposed to them not because of magic but because of some rule breaking being a bad example for kids. All of a sudden I’m “dissing” him??? Yes, God gave us spiritual leaders, but saying that we shouldn’t read HP because two of them (and you still haven’t addressed the fact that the US Bishops approved of the movies on their site) heard from someone else that they were bad is like saying that we should only drink nonfat milk if they said that they were of the opinion that it was the only right kind.

Funny how people ignore the Pope or a Cardinal or a Chief Exorcist when it is a subject they want to justify in their own lives.

The pope’s opinion on a book is not some infallible statement that we as Catholics are bound to believe. The pope can be just as wrong as anyone else when he says or does anything that is not an ex-cathedra statement. I find this part of your post quite insulting, though. You seem to have quite the “holier than thou” attitude by telling me I am attempting to “justify my own life” by “ignoring the pope”. This is a a children’s book, Tom. It’s not like I’m out having premarital sex or using contraceptives. Give me a break.

Again, toss those Scott Hahn books away because only your personal view counts in all things, experts mean nothing.

I DID NOT SAY THAT ONLY YOUR PERSONAL OPINION COUNTS. Did you finally get that this time? I’ll say it again for you. I DID NOT SAY THAT ONLY YOUR PERSONAL OPINION COUNTS. Stop with the strawmen already. That’s a horrible debate tactic.

In Christ,
Rand

 

[vince2paul]

If someone says that a book is the work of Satan, or that Satan is hidden behind every word in the book, then they should read it to see if that is really true. That’s what I am saying.

For some strange reason, it reminds me of a protestant pastor who said that “Rosary is a prayer to evil, because Mary is Devil’s right-hand.” And I had real hard time try to explain it to my friend who heard it.

 

[Julianna]

It could have the potential, but the problem is as I have seen and read here many times, especially re: Harry Potter, is that those who choose to follow the Vatican’s OPINION on something (which we do NOT have to follow) set themselves as better Christians as opposed to those who choose to make their own judgement calls on OPINION. Some people need rulebook and guidline for almost everything they do in life, and thats cool - but they shouldnt then come across as more wise than those who dont need a guideline for every book, tv show or movie or song they see or listen to. Its a shame in politics and even in pop culture the majoriy (of which I am proudly not) need to align themselves in a “this or that” faction instead of a middle CENTRIST ground where IMO more sanity abounds.

oh yeah! :tiphat: :clapping: :tiphat: :clapping:

Common sense prevails…

 

[shirleytowers]

I have read the Harry Potter books, all of them, each more than once, some several times aloud to classes. I find them good.

The author’s favorite author is CS Lewis. The books are full of Christian themes and symbols. In the first book Harry can choose between Gryffindor and Slytherin, and he chooses Gryffindor. (free will, adam and eve, the choice we must all make) He chooses good over power/evil. His wand is of holly, which in England is associated with Christ (crown of thorns, red berries are blood drops). I could go on and on listing the symbolism.

If you don’t know what a horcrux is, you shouldn’t even venture an opinion about this series. Voldemort is trying to achieve immortality, which is like he is trying to be God, which is like Lucifer’s sin. Harry is like Michael. This whole thing is about spiritual warfare and life and death and resuerrection.

The characters are not flat, but are complicated and human. Of course they are not all good or bad. This would be poor writing and boring to boot. Note, however, that Sirius was a flawed hero who had to die…and did.

The stories are well interwoven and full of clues and foreshadowing, with likable characters, humor, tragedy, irony.

The magic in the story is power to do good or ill, like the power we all have and use daily. If this story–for it is all one story–was evil, Malfoy or Voldemort would be the heroes. They are not.

 

[latin_rite]

Hello everybody! I just have one little question to ask. I was wondering if seeing the Harry Potter movies would be wrong. I know that all the witchcraft and nonsense in the movie is against the Church but I want to see the movie just out of curiousity to what its about. MANY of my very Catholic friends have seen it and said it was an entertaining movie. What do you think?

As long as you remember that like all paganism/wiccaism’s its fake. Go see it

 

[Verita]

The author’s favorite author is CS Lewis.

Actually, this is not true. Rowling is not actually a fan of the fantasy genre and doesn’t really read it. She admits that she hasn’t read all of the Narnia books.

If you don’t know what a horcrux is, you shouldn’t even venture an opinion about this series. Voldemort is trying to achieve immortality, which is like he is trying to be God, which is like Lucifer’s sin. Harry is like Michael. This whole thing is about spiritual warfare and life and death and resuerrection.

The magic in the story is power to do good or ill, like the power we all have and use daily.

Some very good observations, especially the last bit. In the fantasy world of HP, the characters just have a different sort of power to use than we do.

 

[fcbv]

Hello everybody! I just have one little question to ask. I was wondering if seeing the Harry Potter movies would be wrong. I know that all the witchcraft and nonsense in the movie is against the Church but I want to see the movie just out of curiousity to what its about. MANY of my very Catholic friends have seen it and said it was an entertaining movie. What do you think?

Hi! Well, I thought that Harry Potter was inoffensive until I read an article on the web about the books. Now, I don’t want anything with the books neither with the movies! It isn’t because of having wizards (I absolutely love the LOTR movies ) but because in the HP series the occult is shown as a cool thing, when it isn’t! Because of this, I think you really shouldn’t watch those movies, principally the most recent ones!

 

[BillP]

Evil books, evil movies…product of satan.

Having not read them (by your own admission) you know this how, exactly?