D
dsaint
Guest
I “lost my faith” , as some would say, about eight or ten years ago, my faith in the divinity of the man upon whom the “Christ” mythology is based at least. I do believe in a God, a Supreme Life-Force or Deity, to which we are all (whether we like it or not) subject. Some “thing” , One, Transcendent , Abstract, Incomprehensible really, which is the “force” behind all of Nature, all of science and evolution, etc. All human beings are born with direct “access” to “Him / It”, and all of us are automatically capable of being forgiven or reconciled to It, without any intercessors, and certainly without any bloody sacrifices or burnt offerings. All human beings also are born and live inherently subject to “Its Will” or “Its Nature”. We have no choice. In this very real sense, we are all , whether we like it or realize it or not, Muslims. We are all “surrendered” or in a state of submission to “Gods Will”.
People ask, rhetorically, “What Would Jesus Do?” Well , in my opinion, what Jesus would do , were he somehow able to be magically brought back to life in this day and age, would be search out the nearest Orthodox Jewish shul, or perhaps find his way towards Crown Heights , Brooklyn, and fall in with a group much more in agreement with and akin to who / what he himself truly was and held dear. A group like the Chabad-Lubavitcher , or perhaps the Satu-Mar , hasidim, for example. That is, in my honest opinion, exactly what Jesus would do. He would pray for the salvation of his people, the Jewish people. He would pray for the coming of the Messiah , just as he did when he lived, so that the “kingdom of God” could begin on Earth.
He would probably be appalled , again having been a devout and truly Monotheistic Semite, at the thought or sight of hordes of the distant descendants of what were, in his own day, untouchable pagan “goyim”, hairy uncivilized (and uncircumsized) barbarians from the North, worshiping HIM as God, or as the literal “son of God”. He would be appalled that weekly they (or some of them at least) do gather in buildings that are chock-full of “graven images” and pray to him and even to his mother (as though either of them were/are God) , and then proceed, at the high point of the ceremony, to symbolically consume a piece of his flesh and a draught of his blood.
* How * could you imagine that this man, Yeshua of Nazaret, this Galilean hasid , could possibly have wanted to see himself end up as the GOD of a Roman-led sect ( Roman of all things) , presided over by a (conspicuously “Caesar-esque” ) pontifex maximus who carries around with him, amongst all of his gaudy gold and jewelry and other “adornments”, a “graven image” of him in his death throes on a Roman cross ??? Talk about adding insult to injury for the poor man.
And what if he were to somehow be made privy to, filled in about, all that had happened in Europe, over the ages, since his death, what had happened to his own people , his own beloved fellow Jews?? And at the hands, so often, of people claiming to be acting “in his name” and / or because “they” had “killed him” ?? What do you think he might make of “Christ-ianity” then, considering all of the pogroms and purges culminating of course in that grotesque orgy of violence and systematic extermination which went on throughout central Europe in the late 1930’s to mid 1940’s ?? Do you think he might be grateful then, that “St.Paul” , a co-religionist of his, had, following his death on that Roman cross, brought the Jewish idea of “the Messiah” to these Gentiles’ ancestors, and set them on a course to form their own new faith based upon it ?? Or do you think he might wish his mother had miscarried him instead ?? I personally tend to think the latter would be more true.
I would like to hear how Catholics, even a Catholic priest or nun, if there are any here, would try to debate this. And don’t just say, “one has to view it with the eyes of faith” or some such thing. That’s not really an answer after all. It’s more of a shortcut through actually having to think, actually having to ponder the potentially devastating psychological effects of such ideas.
If you want to truly believe in God the same way that Jesus believed in God, you’d have to be either a devout Jew, or perhaps a Muslim, or maybe simply a Unitarian. But you can not , ironically, be a Christ-ian and do so. And you certainly cannot be a Roman Catholic Christ-ian and feel that you are following the real Jesus’s “wishes” or “example” as to how to worship or believe in God.
Any serious answers or rebuttals to any of this ?? (That is IF this post even escapes the Catholic censorship here ??)
People ask, rhetorically, “What Would Jesus Do?” Well , in my opinion, what Jesus would do , were he somehow able to be magically brought back to life in this day and age, would be search out the nearest Orthodox Jewish shul, or perhaps find his way towards Crown Heights , Brooklyn, and fall in with a group much more in agreement with and akin to who / what he himself truly was and held dear. A group like the Chabad-Lubavitcher , or perhaps the Satu-Mar , hasidim, for example. That is, in my honest opinion, exactly what Jesus would do. He would pray for the salvation of his people, the Jewish people. He would pray for the coming of the Messiah , just as he did when he lived, so that the “kingdom of God” could begin on Earth.
He would probably be appalled , again having been a devout and truly Monotheistic Semite, at the thought or sight of hordes of the distant descendants of what were, in his own day, untouchable pagan “goyim”, hairy uncivilized (and uncircumsized) barbarians from the North, worshiping HIM as God, or as the literal “son of God”. He would be appalled that weekly they (or some of them at least) do gather in buildings that are chock-full of “graven images” and pray to him and even to his mother (as though either of them were/are God) , and then proceed, at the high point of the ceremony, to symbolically consume a piece of his flesh and a draught of his blood.
* How * could you imagine that this man, Yeshua of Nazaret, this Galilean hasid , could possibly have wanted to see himself end up as the GOD of a Roman-led sect ( Roman of all things) , presided over by a (conspicuously “Caesar-esque” ) pontifex maximus who carries around with him, amongst all of his gaudy gold and jewelry and other “adornments”, a “graven image” of him in his death throes on a Roman cross ??? Talk about adding insult to injury for the poor man.
And what if he were to somehow be made privy to, filled in about, all that had happened in Europe, over the ages, since his death, what had happened to his own people , his own beloved fellow Jews?? And at the hands, so often, of people claiming to be acting “in his name” and / or because “they” had “killed him” ?? What do you think he might make of “Christ-ianity” then, considering all of the pogroms and purges culminating of course in that grotesque orgy of violence and systematic extermination which went on throughout central Europe in the late 1930’s to mid 1940’s ?? Do you think he might be grateful then, that “St.Paul” , a co-religionist of his, had, following his death on that Roman cross, brought the Jewish idea of “the Messiah” to these Gentiles’ ancestors, and set them on a course to form their own new faith based upon it ?? Or do you think he might wish his mother had miscarried him instead ?? I personally tend to think the latter would be more true.
I would like to hear how Catholics, even a Catholic priest or nun, if there are any here, would try to debate this. And don’t just say, “one has to view it with the eyes of faith” or some such thing. That’s not really an answer after all. It’s more of a shortcut through actually having to think, actually having to ponder the potentially devastating psychological effects of such ideas.
If you want to truly believe in God the same way that Jesus believed in God, you’d have to be either a devout Jew, or perhaps a Muslim, or maybe simply a Unitarian. But you can not , ironically, be a Christ-ian and do so. And you certainly cannot be a Roman Catholic Christ-ian and feel that you are following the real Jesus’s “wishes” or “example” as to how to worship or believe in God.
Any serious answers or rebuttals to any of this ?? (That is IF this post even escapes the Catholic censorship here ??)
