Harvard’s Bizarre Take on Homeschooling

[Hume]

Hume:

Well, your ability to determine the curriculum is a bit more limited than you imagine.

There are some educational standards that must be met. The filler and fluff where “we determine what we want to learn” is very, very secondary.

Since this is a Catholic forum, there is little need for me to keep this anything but simple. Parents are 100 percent in charge of and responsible for their own childrens’ upbringing and well-being. Their authority comes from God. There is nothing “secondary” about this.

Unfortunately, you’re dead wrong. You don’t have cart blanche with raising your kids.

Push the lines and you earn the scorn of your community. Cross the line and social services starts checking in on your kids.

“I can do with them as I please!” Is a standard long since defeated.

 

[ThomasMT]

Point taken, nonetheless I was referring to God- given rights and responsibilities, not the tyrannies of fascist leaders, collectives, and the ideals thereof. The former are ever-present and natural, the latter… ever-shifting.

 

[Hume]

I hear right wing Christians talk about homeschooling, and then I think how my parents understood virtually none of my schoolwork.

That’s a heck of a point. My mom taught music and dad sold cars. The idea of either one trying to teach me pre-calc is comedy.

Or electron configurations.
Or anything at least somewhat technical.

 

[redbetta]

You do realize that there are online programs nowadays for homeschoolers and homeschool parents don’t have to actually instruct their kids in everything or build the curricula from scratch, right?

Also, there are co-ops where parents volunteer to teach everyone else’s kids their particular area of expertise.

 

[Hume]

You do realize that there are online programs nowadays for homeschoolers and homeschool parents don’t have to actually instruct their kids in everything or build the curricula from scratch, right?

Also, there are co-ops where parents volunteer to teach everyone else’s kids their particular area of expertise.

I’ve got a good place where my oldest can learn electron configurations from someone who has the relevant background in addition to training on how to teach.

Our public school.

 

[Dr_Meinheimer]

That’s great. Glad you are happy. I do find it fascinating that there seems to be more concern for parents who choose to homeschool than parents who choose private education or parents who choose public education.

You do what you want legally and I’ll do what I want. I could argue pros and cons of each all day, but I don’t see a ton of topics trying to convince public schoolers to homeschool, but do see a fair amount when the topic comes up trying to convince homeschoolers why their education is lacking.

 

[choose_to_love]

“kids usually miss out on quite a bit when they’re homeschooled” What is your evidence for this?

 

[ImQuiet]

That’s great. Glad you are happy. I do find it fascinating that there seems to be more concern for parents who choose to homeschool than parents who choose private education or parents who choose public education.

You do what you want legally and I’ll do what I want. I could argue pros and cons of each all day, but I don’t see a ton of topics trying to convince public schoolers to homeschool, but do see a fair amount when the topic comes up trying to convince homeschoolers why their education is lacking.

I think the worry comes from a lack of oversight and the idea that homeschooling, by default, removes a kid from a lot of typical social situations that won’t necessarily be compensated for by a parent.

The states do have oversight when it comes to academics. There are various achievement tests that all students have to take every year.

I never had to take any of those. Perhaps that’s true of some states, but I was never given any of those until standardized testing in HS.
If states are demanding accountability for homeschooling, then power to homeschooling families I suppose, but that was most assuredly not the case when I when was being homeschooled.

 

[choose_to_love]

Are all your arguments contra homeschooling going to be based upon anecdote and extremely limited personal experience? I would think someone educated by the public schools would know that what you are providing is not close to evidence upon which to base an evaluation of the merits of homeschooling.

 

[redbetta]

I’m not questioning your schooling decisions. But the idea that homeschoolers are just buffoons that pick up textbooks and try to do everything themselves is just ludicrous. Really, there are too many resources out there nowadays for it to come to that.

 

[choose_to_love]

“worry comes from lack of oversight” OK, this is actually fair enough, and I am only familiar with one state’s requirements. In my state, one has to provide a portfolio to the local public school for each student at the end of the year, and have an evaluation by a professional educator, basically, each year. My bride was a public school high school teacher, so she is exempt, but does it anyway to have an outside set of eyes review the curriculum and progress of the kids.

I think it would only be fair to determine if there is any significant evidence to establish that homeschooled kids are lacking in either academics or social graces, and if we look into that, then it seems there should be a comparison to public education outcomes as well.

" . . . removes a kid from a lot of typical social situations" Hmmmm. What if the homeschooled student is also in, IDK, Scouts, 4-H, sports, music lessons/orchestra, etc.? On the other hand, if a family were seeking to isolate/indoctrinate, wouldn’t they remove kids from those types of activities whether home- or public-schooled?

Again, only familiar with my state, yes, the students have to take standardized tests in certain grades, and provide to public school.

" . . . demanding accountability for homeschooling . . ." what about accountability for public schools? Again, this concern about homeschooling generally seems like a solution searching for a problem, a problem that does not exist.

 

[ImQuiet]

“worry comes from lack of oversight” OK, this is actually fair enough, and I am only familiar with one state’s requirements. In my state, one has to provide a portfolio to the local public school for each student at the end of the year, and have an evaluation by a professional educator, basically, each year. My bride was a public school high school teacher, so she is exempt, but does it anyway to have an outside set of eyes review the curriculum and progress of the kids.

I think it would only be fair to determine if there is any significant evidence to establish that homeschooled kids are lacking in either academics or social graces, and if we look into that, then it seems there should be a comparison to public education outcomes as well.

Yeah, I definitely had nothing like that haha.
Despite my frankly terrible experience with homeschooling, I’m not against it, especially if there’s some form of oversight similar to what you are describing.

On the other hand, if a family were seeking to isolate/indoctrinate, wouldn’t they remove kids from those types of activities whether home- or public-schooled?

Fair point, I hadn’t considered that.

Again, only familiar with my state, yes, the students have to take standardized tests in certain grades, and provide to public school.

I never had to take a standardized test during homeschooling, unfortunately.

I think, ultimately, that my negative experience and knowing of others negative experience is clouding my judgement a little. I’m relying on my experience and what happened to my friends, and the end result was usually isolation and trauma.

" . . . demanding accountability for homeschooling . . ." what about accountability for public schools? Again, this concern about homeschooling generally seems like a solution searching for a problem, a problem that does not exist.

I think there’s enough negative experiences people have had with homeschooling that indicates to me that there is some problem that needs to be addressed. The same can be said for public schooling.
However I don’t think I’m qualified to really comment on the thread at this point, given my biases, as I’m apparently having trouble separating a bad experience from actual systemic problems.

TL;DR: Reform the education system, be it the public one or at home lol.

 

[Peeps]

On the other hand, if a family were seeking to isolate/indoctrinate,

I think that more attention needs to go to children and teens who are living in houses where the parents are crackheads, criminals, running a sex business, or are mentally-ill to the point where they are incapable of rearing children, rather than to children who are living in a home where the parents are trying to indoctrinate them with a fundamentalist-style religion that involves separation from “the world.”

For several years, I worked with a young boy (10 years old) and his younger sister–their mother tried hard, but was suffering from several forms of mental illness (anxiety, hallucinations, paranoia, etc., and basically left the children alone most of the time while she slept (sleeping pills, not natural sleep). They were left to get their own food. Much of the time they missed school because they stayed up late watching TV (past midnight) and slept very late in the morning.

Eventually they were removed from the home, but the youngest daughter did return home to try to help her mother (as if a teenager should have to “help” a mentally-ill parent!).

Any of us who have children and are capable of raising them should be thankful! There are too many children being raised in homes where the parents are simply unable to care for them.

 

[Hume]

I’m not questioning your schooling decisions. But the idea that homeschoolers are just buffoons that pick up textbooks and try to do everything themselves is just ludicrous. Really, there are too many resources out there nowadays for it to come to that.

Nowhere did I suggest that.

I do think they’re at a disadvantage though. Social education and extracurriculars are nice benefits of a traditional school in addition to being taught by those that have some experience in the subject being taught.

And when it’s time to go to university, I’m sure there are plenty of schools who doubt the rigors of the Mom and Dad School System. I know for certain there are many that discount online learning in general. Plenty of professional schools simply don’t recognize web-credit.

Granted, I’m sure there are a few homeschooled kids that went Ivy League. But those cases may have involved social contacts and mom and dad’s wallet as well. I guess homeschoolers also really need to blow apart the ACT/SAT…

But again, nowhere did I suggest homeschooling produces buffoons.

 

[Margaret_Ann]

I’d quote my late father here but would probably get flagged.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[EnglishTeacher]

I was entirely homeschooled from K-12, if anyone has questions about the advantages and disadvantages, from the perspective of someone who has been there. I did go on to college and grad school, for what it’s worth.

 

[Peeps]

I do think they’re at a disadvantage though. Social education and extracurriculars are nice benefits of a traditional school in addition to being taught by those that have some experience in the subject being taught.

And when it’s time to go to university, I’m sure there are plenty of schools who doubt the rigors of the Mom and Dad School System. I know for certain there are many that discount online learning in general. Plenty of professional schools simply don’t recognize web-credit.

Granted, I’m sure there are a few homeschooled kids that went Ivy League. But those cases may have involved social contacts and mom and dad’s wallet as well. I guess homeschoolers also really need to blow apart the ACT/SAT…

I did some searching for “homeschooling and Ivy League colleges.”

I found quite a few articles from secular business periodicals about Ivy League universities and colleges admitting home schooled applicants. One article was called “Homeschooling–the New Path to Harvard.”

I couldn’t decide which article to link, there were so many.

But it seemed obvious to me that home schooling is not an impediment to admission to Ivy League schools or any schools, for that matter.

For years, I have chaired a prestigious youth music competition in our area (Northern Illinois), and at least half of the students who enter are homeschooled. Several of them are brilliant, not only in music, but in academic and also, interestingly, in sports!

I think families of “gifted” or “brilliant” children would do well to home-school. These kids get so bored in a traditional school, and they need the freedom to read and learn at a rapid and in-depth rate.

And home-schooling allows a child to learn and practice multiple instruments, as well as participate in sports like figure skating that demand several hours a day of practice and working out, often in the early morning hours when ice is available to private lesson students.

A factor often cited by the parents that I know who homeschool these “gifted” children is that they would love to put them in the local college prep private school, but it’s too expensive! (Actually, it’s relatively cheap compared to other similar schools in the U.S.–around $16,000 per year, plus all the “extras” like books, field trip fees, a week-long camp to help develop appreciation of the outdoors and outdoor living skills), overseas study trips, etc. Many of the schools in other parts of the country cost much more.)

Homeschooling is much cheaper than a private school, and allows a student to devote a lot of time to extras like music, other arts, sports (especially the “individual” sports like skating, and gymnastics), and outdoor/nature/science.

 

[Dr_Meinheimer]

For some homeschool parents, we would not let our children anywhere near an IVY league to begin with; that is certainly not everyone’s goal. My children can go to an authentic Catholic university on my dime, or community college as a starting point.

 

[Peeps]

For some homeschool parents, we would not let our children anywhere near an IVY league to begin with; that is certainly not everyone’s goal. My children can go to an authentic Catholic university on my dime, or community college as a starting point.

Wise!

Cost of college has skyrocketed in just the last few decades (our daughters graduated from high school in 2001 and 2004).

 

[redbetta]

Interestingly, cost is really the only reason to consider an Ivy or other top tier school. They have such deep pockets that, unless you are an intentional student, chances are you will be paying less to go to one of those instead of a state school.

Such was the case with me. I didn’t go to an Ivy, but my school was within the top 20 in the country and my parents only wound up paying for room and board. The place was hell if you went in without any pre-existing connections, but at least we saved money.