Has America Gone Atheist?

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eptatorata

*Are atheists to blame for everything you don’t like about society? *

No, not everything. I also blame Christians, including myself, for apathy toward immoral stances promoted by the government, and especially the so-called “intelligentia” in the courts, not to mention the ACLU.

But the promotion of an anything goes policy toward morals cannot be a distinctly Christian doctrine, whereas it seems to me that atheists have no moral foundation (no Ten Commandments, no Sermon on the Mount, no Church or Bishop or Priest who can be witness to a higher authority than the atheists who are, I do believe, each one their own Bible and Pope in all things.

The culture war we are in right now has got to be fought. The front lines of the war are the courts themselves. The courts are defending and advancing a culture of perversion and death contrary to the will of the people. The Republican and Democrats have got to stop putting these champions of perversion and death on the bench … and only men and woman of conscience can come forward to make them stop doing that. The Churches themselves have stopped making the effort. For example, have you heard lately Terri Shiavo’s bishop thundering from the pulpit?

If the Church authorities no longer speak out, what chance have we got to turn things around?

Sad.
 
Gilbert Keith:
The courts are defending and advancing a culture of perversion and death contrary to the will of the people.
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A lot of this talk about “activists judges” and the courts imposing such and such seems to display, at least to an extent, a lack of knowledge of the actual cases.

Take, for instance, the Terri Schiavo case. It isn’t as if some judge sat down, cackling and twirling his Snidely Whiplash moustache, and decided to kill an invalid. The judges who have overseen the various cases over the past seven years have been doing their jobs – enforcing the laws on the books. According to Florida law, any individual has the right to refuse any form of medical care they see fit. Schiavo’s husband has been able to present a convincing case that Terri said, in depth and detail, that she would not want to continue living in a situation like this.

Perhaps he was lying. None of us can know that. The judges can’t know that. But by the law they’re sworn to uphold, they had to side with the more convincing case. Was the result wrong? Perhaps, but the judge doesn’t get to make that call. He has to make the decision which adheres most closely to the law of the land, leaving his own ethical views aside.

Or take the gay marriage question. The most recent judge to rule in favor of gay marriage is a conservative, Republican, Roman Catholic. He himself does not agree with homosexuality. He’s not an activist for homosexual causes.

However, the only arguments anyone was able to present to him against homosexual marriage were practically identical to the arguments against interracial marriage, which was once also illegal. And the clear legal precedent is that none of those arguments hold water. He had no choice, being an honest judge, but to set aside his own views and enforce the law as outlined in the state constitution.

If that constitution should change, I’m sure he would happily overturn his own decision.
 
In broad terms, yes. (A “weak” atheist, bordering on agnostic, but that’s kinda hair-splitting, I suppose.)

And I would argue that to an extent, there has always been a streak of… well, atheism isn’t the word. Irreligiousness, perhaps? There’s been a streak of irreligiousness in the governmental system of the United States of America right back to the beginning. Although some of the founding fathers were Christians, several weren’t – a number of them were atheists and deists. They constructed a system of law based largely in the rationalist principles of the Englightenment era.

As such, the law of the land sometimes contradicts various religious principles of some of its citizens. But that doesn’t mean that the judges who uphold those laws are atheists. (Although I personally would have no problem with an atheist judge.)

The idea that America is becoming an atheist nation is unfathomable. The religious right is one of the most powerful voting blocs in the nation. America is one of the most religious nations in the First World. The vast majority of Americans believe in God, in some form.

The question isn’t whether they believe in God. The question is whether they believe in your God.
 
Sam

However, the only arguments anyone was able to present to him against homosexual marriage were practically identical to the arguments against interracial marriage, which was once also illegal.

This is absurd, and you know it. Even though homosexuality was rampant among the ancient Romans and Greeks in the most depraved stage of their cultures (Plato, the ultimate rationalist, condemned it) homosexual marriage was never an issue. What this proves is that certain judges in our culture want us to be more depraved than the Romans and Greeks.

When a judge tells us his hands are tied, that he is opposed to homosexuality, but he has to grant homosexuals their constitutional right to marriage, do you believe he is telling you the truth? Then what would prevent you from believing that the same judge might some day be telling you he is sorry, his hands are tied, but he has to approve the constitutional right of adults to have sex with children?

I suppose you are aware, after all, that NAMBLA has campaigned for the right of adults to have sex with children?
 
Sam,

The question isn’t whether they believe in God. The question is whether they believe in your God.

No, sir. The question is:

If America is a religious nation, why are we in the moral swamp we are in? Or do you deny that we are in a moral swamp?
 
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tkdnick:
According the a relatively recent survey (can’t remember which one), 84% of Americans consider themselves Christians. If you consider that number to be indicative of all groups in America, then about 84% of Congress is Christian.
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WE have some cafeteria Christians
 
Gilbert Keith:
This is absurd, and you know it. Even though homosexuality was rampant among the ancient Romans and Greeks in the most depraved stage of their cultures (Plato, the ultimate rationalist, condemned it) homosexual marriage was never an issue. What this proves is that certain judges in our culture want us to be more depraved than the Romans and Greeks.
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I’m not saying that homosexual marriage is the same as interracial marriage. What I’m saying is that in the case in question, the only legal arguments the opponents of homosexual marriage came up with were the same ones that were used to argue against interracial marriage – and those arguments have already been determined to have no legal standing.
When a judge tells us his hands are tied, that he is opposed to homosexuality, but he has to grant homosexuals their constitutional right to marriage, do you believe he is telling you the truth?
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In some cases, I probably wouldn’t. But when a judge known for decades as a conservative Republican Catholic, and also known throughout his state’s justice system for his fairness and respect for reason and the law says it, I tend to lend him some credibility.
Then what would prevent you from believing that the same judge might some day be telling you he is sorry, his hands are tied, but he has to approve the constitutional right of adults to have sex with children?
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Because in that case, the law would clearly not be with him. There is a long, well-precedented legal basis for children not being able to legally give informed consent.

When the matter becomes one of consenting adults, it becomes much more legally tricky.
 
Gilbert Keith:
No, sir. The question is:

If America is a religious nation, why are we in the moral swamp we are in? Or do you deny that we are in a moral swamp?
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Oh, we’re certainly in a major moral crisis in this country. The reason being that there are a number of competing religions and ideologies whose moral and ethical values are inherently contradictory.

I don’t think it’s a conflict between atheists and Christians, though. I think it’s a conflict between different brands of Christianity.
 
Sam

Because in that case, the law would clearly not be with him. There is a long, well-precedented legal basis for children not being able to legally give informed consent.

But isn’t there also a “long, well-precedented legal basis” for not granting marriage licenses to members of the same sex?
 
Sam

*Oh, we’re certainly in a major moral crisis in this country. The reason being that there are a number of competing religions and ideologies whose moral and ethical values are inherently contradictory.
*
I am so tired of hearing this argument from atheists.Do you really think that drug and alcohol use among children, child pornography, child molestation, child rape and murder, murders in the schoolyard, organizations defending sex with children such as Nambla, can all be laid at the door of competing religions?

Please give me the name of any religion that does not condemn these practices.
 
Gilbert Keith:
Please give me the name of any religion that does not condemn these practices.
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Are you saying that atheists condone these practices, because by process of elimination they are the ones left to blame?
 
eptatorata

I’m saying the usual criminal put in jail has not been to Church in a long time and very few go to chapel when they get to prison.

So you tell me: are they Christians or atheists?

You figure it out.
 
Gilbert Keith:
GENESIS

I do not think America has gone atheist. As has been mentioned above, true atheists aren’t that common and I doubt a declared atheist could get elected in this country.

Is it posible that the true number of atheists is not really known simply because it is not yet expedient to be known as an atheist, and that atheists are a disproportionately large percent of the “educated” classes as opposed to the population at large?

And since the so-called “intelligentia” are supposed to run this country, and especially the courts, wouldn’t their influence in shaping morals be far greater than the influence of the average Catholic, Jew, Protestant, or Muslim?

I ask, does anyone seriously believe that politicians like Kennedy and Kerry are true Christians, given their chronic support of causes that fly in the face of Christ’s teachings?

So if Christians and other religious groups are truly running this country, I ask again, how do you explain the moral swamp we are in?
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Like I said, these people will claim to believe in God. They will even call themselves Christians. No one claiming to be an atheist gets elected. These nominal Christians are not really Christians, but they are not atheists either. Atheists believe there is no god. These people believe there is a god. This is not the God we know is true and real. This is an invented god, a perversion of the Christian God we know. It is the god of “social justice,” a god who is pro-abortion and pro-gay marriage. These people are not Christians, but they are also not atheists. They are some sort of false Christian, for lack of a better term.
 
Gilbert Keith:
Has America gone atheist?

Sixty years ago most Americans would have regarded as moronic and obscene the idea that to kill the unborn should be an act protected by the Constitution, or that the marriage of members of the same sex should be an act protected by the Constitution, or that homosexual married partners have the right to adopt children, or that the execution by starvation of disabled people should be protected by the Constitution. Today these moronic and obscene notions are enjoying the protection or the serious consideration of many of our lawmakers. Are these lawmakers Christians or atheists?
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Answer: No America (or rather Americans have not become atheists by enlarge). However, they HAVE decided that they know what God believes and wants. Homosexuals by enlarge, say that God is on their side; mothers choosing to abort their babies are deciding that God does not view the unborn as living human beings; etc. The question is not whether America believes in God, the majority does; the question is what God do they believe in. Political correctness has taken its toll on society and now many believe that God Himself must be politically correct and fall inline with PC. The fact is that God cares little about PC. His laws never change and never will and there will be MANY people that are surprised when they stand before Him.
 
Regular attendance of religious services makes one immune from becoming a usual criminal?

Not immune.
But you do the math.
 
My math says that you are prejudiced towards atheists, but won’t put it into these simple words.

Think what you like.

The prisons are full of people who don’t go to chapel.

The churches are full of people who are not in prison.

A prisoner I know who committed murder one day started going to chapel. I asked him why. He said his lack of belief got him into prison.

So I ask you:

Do you think people who run houses of prostitution believe in God?

Do you think people who sell drugs to children believe in God?

Do you think people who hire themselves out to kill other people believe in God?

Do you think people who spend their evening hours burgling other people’s homes believe in God?

Do you think people who rip babies from their mother’s womb for a fee believe in God?

Etc.
 
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