Has anyone ever said this to you?

[distracted]

Has anyone ever said to you:

“I am spiritual, not religious”?

One time when i heard this, i answered that i was both…

but the longer i live, the more i see more clearly what the person was talking about…

For example, It seems that some “religious” people are the worst of all… as far as how they act… and how they keep or do not keep God’s word…

Can you relate to this? If so, I would like to hear your story…

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I pretty much hear a lot of people say that lately. It seems to be a trend.

Unfortunately it’s a pretty risky trend.

Some people say, I’m spiritual not religious when they’re trying to reject the teachings of religious authorities. It appears to have underlying sentiments of liberal anti-authoritarianism and anti-establishment. These people have a lot of crazy beef with any form of organized religion.

On the other hand, some people define ‘religious’ as actually overly conservative fundamentalism with the whole ‘hellfire and brimstone preaching’ nonsense.

I guess it really depends on how you define ‘spiritual’ and ‘religious’.

However, in my opinion, being both seems to set you higher above them.

 

[MarieVeronica]

Hi “distracted”. Funny you should bring this up just now. I’m reading a book called “The Promise”. It was written by Father Jonathan Morris. Maybe you’ve heard of him. He’s a Catholic Priest, living in Rome and is an Analyst for Fox News Network.

Anyway, the short version: Fr. Morris tells about a friend of his… who was interested in dating a young woman. But on their first date… the guy asked her if she was “religious”. She responded by saying… that “no”, she was not “religious”… but “spiritual”.

Fr. Morris then analyzes this concept (without condemning the young lady who made the comment). He gives a very general explanation of this attitude… which is apparently, pretty common in our day and age. Here is what Fr. Jonathan says:

"Spirituality, then, is God’s gift to every human being, not any act of virtue on our part.

Religion, on the other hand, from a sociological point of view, is man’s response to that gift of spirituality. He hears God’s call to his soul and responds in prayer, music, admiring nature, gathering in church, receiving the sacraments, and reading sacred texts, among other things. These are all expressions of our spirituality and efforts to cultivate our relationship with God.

To say, then, “I am spiritual, but not religious,”… may sound good, but it is really an affirmation that one has chosen not to do anything about one’s spirituality. It is saying, “God gave me a gift and I’m not going to use it”.

There’s more to this chapter… in Fr. Jonathan’s book… but you get the idea. How sad… when people can’t or don’t… respond to God’s gift of spirituality.

 

[distracted]

I.

Some people say, I’m spiritual not religious when they’re trying to reject the teachings of religious authorities. It appears to have underlying sentiments of liberal anti-authoritarianism and anti-establishment.

That is why it bothered me to hear it… and why i didn’t want to agree totally… so said that i was both…

On the other hand, some people define ‘religious’ as actually overly conservative fundamentalism with the whole ‘hellfire and brimstone preaching’ nonsense.

Do you not believe in hellfire??

I guess it really depends on how you define ‘spiritual’ and ‘religious’.

Yes… I think they define… Well, the well-meaning of the lot… define “religious” as (basically) thinking that if you go to church every Sunday, that’s all you have to do to be “in good” with God…

However, in my opinion, being both seems to set you higher above them.

That’s what i thought - that i am better than them…

 

[distracted]

Fr. Jonathan says:

"Spirituality, then, is God’s gift to every human being, not any act of virtue on our part.

Religion, on the other hand, from a sociological point of view, is man’s response to that gift of spirituality. He hears God’s call to his soul and responds in prayer, music, admiring nature, gathering in church, receiving the sacraments, and reading sacred texts, among other things. These are all expressions of our spirituality and efforts to cultivate our relationship with God.

Wow… that is beautiful… .

To say, then, “I am spiritual, but not religious,”… may sound good, but it is really an affirmation that one has chosen not to do anything about one’s spirituality. It is saying, “God gave me a gift and I’m not going to use it”.

These words are clarification of a thought that was somewhere floating around in the murky depths of my mind… but couldn’t be retrieved… happens all the time… I know something doesn’t sound right but can’t articulate why…

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Do you not believe in hellfire??

Don’t worry. Of course I believe in hell.

When I meant by ‘hellfire and brimstone preaching’ I mean those crazy fundamentalist preachers you see on the streets waving the KJV Bible and condemning other people to hell and all that hate-mongering garbage.

On the other hand, your definition of ‘just going to Church every Sunday’ mentality is also good. Some people don’t take their religion seriously enough.

Problem is I’m like that at times as well. Arrgghh!! :banghead:

 

[dove51]

Yes. I consider it New Age psychobabble, and don’t really hold people who say that in high regard.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Yes. I consider it New Age psychobabble, and don’t really hold people who say that in high regard.

I’ve always figured the New Age phenomenon had something to do with it.

 

[distracted]

On the other hand, your definition of ‘just going to Church every Sunday’ mentality is also good. Some people don’t take their religion seriously enough.

Problem is I’m like that at times as well. Arrgghh!! :banghead:

You mean sometimes you go to Church and think that that is all you have to do to get to Heaven??

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

You mean sometimes you go to Church and think that that is all you have to do to get to Heaven??

Well sorta but I do know the importance of other things like Confession. Problem is sometimes I’m not really serious about my faith as long as nobody attacks it with stupid things (coughfundiescough).

But don’t worry about it. I’m still a ‘Work in Progress’ as I’ve heard people say.

 

[Pious_Mat]

Fr Jonathan is definitely a wonderful speaker and talented individual, and I know for a fact that his Brother priests in the Legion of Christ are very proud of him.

His assessment here is spot on. It seems to me that spirituality is a deep sense of the unseen, and a desire for existential truth. Religion is the acknowledgement of an existential truth. To be “spiritual” and not “religious” is essentially saying “Yes, I acknowledge there are certain unseen, existential truths in the universe, but I’d rather not look for that truth, since having to live by it might infringe on my lifestyle and personal preferences.” It is ultimately a very selfish stance, as one chooses what feels good over what is true, good, and beneficial to others around one.

 

[jeanannemarie]

You hear alot of the “spirituality” talk in AA. People are afraid of “religion” and don’t want to be involved in something they think is organized religion. Obviously, some people would never come into the rooms of AA to become sober if the group represented a particular church. So, they come in, some get religion later and some don’t. Personally, my opinion is that anyone who wants the Truth eventually finds it and at least some of the others stay sober and stop menacing the community. I have given it all alot of thought because the idea of spirituality sounds like an excuse to me, but I don’t see any other way around it in this instance. One man I know professed to be an athiest in the beginning of his sobriety. Eighteen years later, he is enthusiastic about his church. Others are still “spiritual.” I think it is not wise to stop there. This age of political correctness certainly can be annoying.

 

[CatholicCajun]

Haven’t heard that one. Where I am from, the new phrase, is that I am non-denominational, it sees that here it’s tabu to belong to a denomination, hence all the new churches on the block.

 

[distracted]

Well sorta but I do know the importance of other things like Confession. Problem is sometimes I’m not really serious about my faith as long as nobody attacks it with stupid things (coughfundiescough).

fundies??? NO comprendo…

But don’t worry about it. I’m still a ‘Work in Progress’ as I’ve heard people say.

So, hate to sound like a 3-yr old but…

Were you baptized Catholic as a baby?
If not, how long have you been Catholic?
How well have you been catechized?
Do you pray the rosary?
How well do you know Scripture? Do you go to daily Mass?

There are reasons i ask… the main one is my own testimony/story… i didn’t have much of a clue about a lot of things concerning the Church until i delved into history and the catechism of the Faith and… well, b4 that, i prayed the rosary…

 

[distracted]

a desire for existential truth.

hate to sound ignorant (hate to because of Pride ) but what, exactly, is “existential trurth”?

To be “spiritual” and not “religious” is essentially saying “Yes, I acknowledge there are certain unseen, existential truths in the universe, but I’d rather not look for that truth, since having to live by it might infringe on my lifestyle and personal preferences.”

I think this is only true in the case of those who realize, but don’t want to admit they realize, that there IS some truth & importance to “religion” … I think it is religious ritual that a lot of (esp. non-Cahtlics) don’t understand. They don’t think it is necessary - that all is necessary is a relationship with Christ… But they don’t realize that Chirst (as far as i can tell) set us his Church to be “ritualistic” (structured, etc…) and so, if that’s the way He wants things… that’s the wy they should be…

It is ultimately a very selfish stance, as one chooses what feels good over what is true, good, and beneficial to others around one.

I do believe a lot of the aforementioned are gullty of this… I do think, however, that there are those who, not being raised with the structures (etc) of the Church… honestly believe organized religion is not necessary… even stifling… even diabolical… and frankkly, if that is ALL there is to one’s spirituality, they are right…

 

[distracted]

You hear alot of the “spirituality” talk in AA.

i believe that is where i first heard it…

People are afraid of “religion”

Why??

and don’t want to be involved in something they think is organized religion.

One time when someone disparaged organized religion at an AA meeting, i made the point tht it is better than dis- organized religion…

Personally, my opinion is that anyone who wants the Truth eventually finds it

If that weren’t true, we Christians would have to spend every waking hour trying to bring truth to people… via classes, etc… something i have tried to do, one way or the other. I had to realize that God wanted them with Him more than i did… Yes, i have to do things to help people, but I don’t have to be in anguish over this kind of thing 24/7…

I have given it all alot of thought because the idea of spirituality sounds like an excuse to me,

It kinda did to me also…

 

[distracted]

Haven’t heard that one. Where I am from, the new phrase, is that I am non-denominational, it sees that here it’s tabu to belong to a denomination, hence all the new churches on the block.

You poor thing…

(I mean that…)

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

fundies??? NO comprendo…

‘Fundies’ is a street term for fundaMENTALists. XD

Were you baptized Catholic as a baby?

Yep. I’ve been Catholic all my life.

How well have you been catechized?

Pretty much most on the basics, though I have been reviewing it a lot lately.

Do you pray the rosary?

Sadly… not very often (mostly during October and only when my mom makes me). In fact, I find it ironic cuz I often fantasize my ideal girl to be some cute, shy, religious type who often prays it in secret whereas I’m some… well… I don’t think you wanna know.

How well do you know Scripture?

Not much cuz well… I don’t trust myself in interpreting the Bible. I need someone or some form of guide to help me understand it and that doesn’t happen very often for me.

Do you go to daily Mass?

I used to in highschool but when I got into college I had a lot of scheduling problems. I still go to Mass every Sunday though.

Well… like I said… I’m a work in progress… (in need of a lot progress in fact :banghead

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Has anyone ever said to you:

“I am spiritual, not religious”?

One time when i heard this, i answered that i was both…

but the longer i live, the more i see more clearly what the person was talking about…

For example, It seems that some “religious” people are the worst of all… as far as how they act… and how they keep or do not keep God’s word…

Can you relate to this? If so, I would like to hear your story…

I don’t remember hearing that from anyone I’ve talked to ​

There’s a reason religious people can be so horrible - & C. S. Lewis (among others) put his finger on it. As he says, “Religious bad men are the worst of all”, because (to paraphrase) corruptio optimi pessima: the worst corruption, is the corruption of what is best. He gives the devil as an example. So, the better, nobler, more wonderful a virtue is, the more horrible its corruption is: love gone bad is worse than patience gone bad. This insight has many applications.

 

[distracted]

I have been reviewing it a lot lately

That’s always edifying…

Sadly… not very often (mostly during October and only when my mom makes me).

Are you really young? I mean, your Mom can still make you do stuff?? that’s cool… no matter your age… that you seem to listen to your Mom… I know a lot of young people who disrespect their parents… it’s awful… seems to be a trend these days

In fact, I find it ironic cuz I often fantasize my ideal girl to be some cute, shy, religious type who often prays it in secret whereas I’m some… well… I don’t think you wanna know.

Hey - guess what? Its very hard to believe what i am about to tell you, but i swear it’s true…

Don’t tell anyone, but i am a sinner too… Yeah, no kiddin’…

but I spend a lot of time wiht Jesus @ the Blessed Sacrament and try to let Him have all that…

Not much cuz well… I don’t trust myself in interpreting the Bible. I need someone or some form of guide to help me understand it

so you have another admirable quality: you are humble… I hate when people think their interpretation of the Bilble is the exact right one every time…

(Or is it just that you would rather do other things?? )

I used to in highschool but when I got into college I had a lot of scheduling problems.

Daily mass is such a blessing… I hope you can find time in the future…

I still go to Mass every Sunday though.

Of course you do… cause you’re afraid of going to Hell if you don’t…
Seriously, i was raised Catholic but didn’t even know that missing Mass on Sun. was a mortal sin… I only found out several yrs ago… long after my life had been totally de-railed and fallen into the ditch :hypno: uch:

Well… like I said… I’m a work in progress… (in need of a lot progress in fact

I’ve got some sad news for you: Even if you do start going to daily Mass & praying the rosary a lot… you will always be a serious work in progress… I know because i do all those things and well… satan sees that you are doing them and he throws a fit… I used to feel very defeated by the devil(still do at times) but then i have 2 remind myself he is a created being… i should not give power to him (in my head ) that belongs only to God…
Anyway, i hope you also find time to be with Jesus’ Real Presence in the Church… especially in the cities, Churches are often open in the day time… I like to go there and just be There… listening quietly, not really talking to Him until … until i’ve listened or whatever… “Be still and know that i am God” (that’s somewhere in the Bible…)
God bless…