Has anyone had this experience with Mormons?

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Blanka

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I have a Mormon co-worker who seems obsessed with vanity. She is always talking about having her hair “colored” (it’s blond in color), having two face lifts, teeth whitened, as well as shopping for clothes and jewelry. Any topic that comes up she can somehow twist to include how it relates to her and how she “feels good” to do certain things. For example, when discussing her part time patient teaching job, she says it raises her own self esteem to teach (as opposed to the joy of seeing someone learn something new–which is how I have experienced any teaching situations).
While there is nothing intrinsically wrong with hair coloring, face lifts, dental repair, having good self esteem, etc., this woman dwells on discussing it over and over. Of course, intermingled with all of this is her praise of the mormon “prophet” and her church related activities. She proclaims her family to be wonderful and says her husband is the perfect husband and tells everyone at work in detail all the things her husband does for her. She brags that her children have been married in the “temple”.
On the other hand, if a topic comes up about someone committing a moral or legal wrong, she is quick to condemn the person as though there is no hope and has at times indicated she believes the person is doomed to hell. Of course, that’s where I have to argue that there is always room for God’s forgiveness and mercy. She always disagrees.
I guess what I am wondering is: Is this part of the Mormon persona? Is this meant to make others envious of the Mormon lifestyle? Or does this woman just have her own mental health issues? :confused:
 
I’ve met a few mormons in my short life and have not explicitly encountered the behaviour you’re talking about.

I have encountered it with non-mormons.

I think it’s probably not to much a reflection of one’s faith but one’s personality.
 
clears throat I was adopted into a Mormon family before I could remember, and for as long as said memory spans, I have ran into vain women like said coworker rather consistently.

See, Mormon women look down on each other for every little thing. They gossip, shame and shun each other on a regular basis; one of the BIG things they shame each other on is working. The ideal Mormon woman will not be employed, save by Avon or Mary Kay, et al. The Mormon women who are employed will try to make themselves feel superior to the others in other ways, be they vanity or bragging about children or judging others.

As for dooming others to Hell, this lady is 100% just trying to make herself feel superior to the mentioned sinner. Mormons believe than ANY GOOD PERSON - be they Christian, Mormon, Atheist, Muslim, Wiccan - you name it - they can reach the Tealestrial Kingdom (2nd level of heaven - and that place is said to be pretty darn nice.) Hell (they call it “Outer Darkness”) is only reserved for antichrists, mass murderers, Satanists, Satan and the 1/3 of the host of angels banished during the preexistance war. The T-Lestrial kingdom (3rd lvl, sorry if I’m not getting these names 100% right: I learned them when I was 11 and stopped being Mormon a few years thereafter.) is only for unforgiven Murderers, Rapists, etc and is still a heck of a lot better than “Outer Darkness.” If the sinner is repentant, they can STILL be forgiven and go to the Tealestrial Kindgom. Only Mormons can reach the Celestrial Kingdom (top level). If this lady is saying that sinners are doomed to Hell, she needs to talk to her Bishop (a rather low title in Mormonism actually - he’s like a pastor that gets replaced every 5 years or so) about Heaven and Hell levels.
 
I’ve known many mormons but only a handfull well. The ones I’ve known well were the most kind and pleasent folks. The part you mentioned about not wanting wives and mothers to work outside the home, I have seen as pretty much true but IMHO, for good cause. They are very family oriented and prefer to not have day care centers raising their kids and maids cooking dinner.
As far as that vanity thing, that may just be a personality issue with the person of whom you speak since I have not experienced it with any of the mormons I’ve known.
Someone else may have a different view.
 
Mila,
Thank you so much for the thorough and interesting explanation. It clarifies a lot of what I have been seeing with this co-worker. I think she may have been referring to the T-Lestrial kingdom when she said that some people were condemned. I really feel sorry for this woman. Now that you have explained how Mormons frown on women working, I recall that she said a friend had make rude remarks to her years ago when she decided to go to nursing school and it seems she is still holding onto the hurt of those remarks.
Wow! This is an eye opener!
Thanks again for taking time to respond. :tiphat:
 
Blanka,
The materialistic nature of the woman you’ve described is a character flaw and is all too common in our narcissistic society. It shouldn’t be considered a reflection on the religion. If I run into a materialistic Catholic I promise not to assume a billion Catholics must therefore be materialistic or Catholic teachings are the cause of the materialism. Such generalizations are the cause of societal bigotry.

RE: I recall that she said a friend had make rude remarks to her years ago when she decided to go to nursing school and it seems she is still holding onto the hurt of those remarks.

The current LDS prophet, Gordon B. Hinckley and past prophets have encouraged LDS men and women to get as much education as possible so it’s unlikely a rude remark regarding nursing school would stem from church teachings. Women are encouraged, however, to raise their own children in cooperation with their husbands rather than put them into daycare whenever possible. Individual circumstances of course dictate the feasibility of this and we’re not to judge each other in this area.
 
all the mormons i have known in my life have been kind caring people. i have never been “accosted” as opposed to other non catholic beliefs.

i don’t believe in their religion, but they seem to be nice people
 
I do not see this lady’s “personality” as indicative of the LDS lifestyle at all. The LDS that I have come to know are humble, generous, kind people who would never condemn someone else (at least that I know of). One thing I have noticed is that LDS place high esteem and emphasis on bettering one’s self.
 
I have met Catholic women exactly as described above, and I have found that while they know the rules of their faith they don’t know the heart. Possibly that is your Morman co-workers problem too.

When you run into a person who continually brags, more often than not he is sufering from low self esteme, and the only way they feel better is making you feel worse, If someone makes you feel bad inside when you are around him…don’t engage…don’t be rude just don’t entertain the conversation with them…life is too short than to deal with mean people.
 
:twocents: - I don’t think this woman’s problem is tied to her religion. There are many just like her in every religion. Catholics are no exception, unfortunately.
 
Of course, this woman’s problems may not be directly linked with her religion, but by no means is it helping it. As for the official stances of the church on higher education 8 of the 11 friends I had in the Mormon church went to college - and that is a wonderful thing - but a few years in, 7 of the 8 have dropped out to get married to (and eventually be a housewife for) a man they met in college. (The last friend still in college is a guy!) I don’t know the statistics for ALL Mormon girls in higher education, but it is widely acknowledged that college is a great place to find a husband that will make lots of money for a family. Another, main reason they approve of women getting an education is that if their husband dies or can no longer work at some point, then they have something to fall back on.

Sidenote: You know they throw so much time and money into Boy Scouts but wouldn’t even let my Brownie Troop have meetings in the parking lot?

Gossiping (though it is actually against Mormon teachings) is also rampant. I just wrote a long post about it but erased it 'cause I don’t think you all would care to read it. 😃
 
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Blanka:
I guess what I am wondering is: Is this part of the Mormon persona? Is this meant to make others envious of the Mormon lifestyle? Or does this woman just have her own mental health issues? :confused:
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No, this is the kind of person even other Mormons typically dislike.

I hate to be judgemental, but if you scratch her surface you’ll probably find that her life is not as “perfect” as she likes to pretend it is and is most likely just fronting.

I’ve met a few people in the church like this and usually no one can stand to be around them. We recently had a missionary who was just like this, and her new companion requested a transfer on the very next rotation just to get away from her.

It sounds like she’s confusing the sin of Vanity with teaching the gospel.
 
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Mila:
Sidenote: You know they throw so much time and money into Boy Scouts but wouldn’t even let my Brownie Troop have meetings in the parking lot?
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I would like to know why the LDS church doesn’t sponsor Brownies and Girl Scouts as well. I know they have some type of achievement meeting once a month for girls and there’s no problem with girls being in Girl Scouts, but I was told there was a technical reason why the LDS church doesn’t sponsor its own troop.
 
RE: I would like to know why the LDS church doesn’t sponsor Brownies and Girl Scouts as well.

I’ve assumed the reason is because the BSA lets the church choose local scout leaders while the Girl Scouts doesn’t. Therefore the church can ensure the scout leaders are supporting the values of the church. However, I know several of the girls in our ward are heavily involved in the Girl Scouts, but don’t have meetings in the church. Anyway, I could be wrong on this.

Mila said: this woman’s problems may not be directly linked with her religion, but by no means is it helping it… but a few years in [college], 7 of the 8 have dropped out to get married to (and eventually be a housewife for) a man they met in college.

There are three problems with your post. First, you say that her religion isn’t helping her condition. Do you know enough about LDS teachings against pride, vanity, self worth, and the value of education to say this?

Second, from your post I sense that you feel women that choose postpone careers to raise their children and become a “houseswife for a man” are somehow inferior or are making a mistake in choosing to raise their children rather than letting a daycare worker raise them. Am I misreading you?

Third, you seem to be suggesting that the LDS church outwardly encourages women to become educated but secretly just wants them around so the men in college can find wives. Is this really what you’re suggesting? Are you justifying this inference based on the 11 friends you had in college? Well, if we’re presenting anecdotal evidence I’ll just say that my wife (also LDS) has a masters degree and career, my three sisters (also LDS) have college degrees and careers, my mother (also LDS) has a college degree and career, etc. Anyway, you get the point. I get the impression that you already have in your mind an opinion about LDS church members and are looking for evidence to justify your opinion.
 
Casen,

If you could research this I would be most appreciative. I don’t believe it’s a leader issue. I know our Catholic Church sponsors a troop and the requirement for them is that 75% (or 50%) of the girls needs to be going to school there for the church to support the troop.

I believe it has something to do with either the Girl Scout Oath or Law that the LDS church has a hang up on. I know many LDS churches support Boy Scouts. I don’t know any that supports Girl Scout troops.

The rumors I hear from Girl Scout Leaders of the reasons the LDS church doesn’t support them is really laughable. I’d like to hear from an LDS member what the real reason is.

Thanks
 
blueade,
It’s not really a matter of the LDS church “supporting” the Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts. The Boy Scouts is completely integrated into the church’s youth program and scout troop leadership is chosen by the local Bishop. My understanding is that the Girl Scout organization is not willing to give the LDS church this level of control and that’s why the church has created its own internal Young Women’s organization.

I also suspect that the fact that the Girl Scouts is more liberal than the BSA and openly accepts homosexual leaders might be a contributing factor. Since homosexual behavior is considered a serious sin by the LDS church it’s understandable that they wouldn’t want Young Women getting a mixed message from their Girl Scout leaders teaching them things that contradict church values and standards. This is just my opinion though and I doubt you’ll find and official church reason.

In any case, young women are free to join the Girl Scouts or any other organization they find of value but it’s separate from the church structure.
 
A couple of years ago I moved to Utah for work and was, of course, shocked by the shear number of Mormons in the town I lived. It seemed like they were everywhere and I couldn’t get away from them. One of the first things I noticed was how “pretty” the people all tried to be and how “perfect” they tried to exhibit…THEN, I realized something. What was I doing but judging them?

I think what bothered me most was that for the first time in my life I experienced bias towards myself, my wife and my children…those LDS didn’t treat us like we were worthy of them. This feeling caused me to HATE them and I couldn’t help but having evil thoughts about them and beleiving they were the evil ones and not me…THEN I realized something. What was I doing but judging them?

The problem with non-catholic religions is that we, as catholics, tend to judge those who are not catholic. My fellow catholics can correct me if I’m wrong, but it is not our reponsibility to pass judgement on those non-catholics; but rather, it is our responsibility to speak the truth about faith when given the opportunity. Not every person has become catholic when the Gospels have been preached, but that does not mean we shouldn’t share the truth. There is a song we sing occasionally at mass on Sundays, which I think exhibits what we are supposed to adhere to in our lives and it speaks to character and action and not to deciding who is or is not going to walk in God’s light. The song simply goes: “And they will know we are Christians by our love…by our love.”

SG
 
in the part of NE Ohio where I lived for 25 years, I had many Mormon friends and co-workers. I never met anyone who exhibits the unpleasant traits described by the first poster. I would guess that is one person’s point of view and personality, rooted in disorders about her own identity and self-worth, not arising from her religious beliefs. the Mormons I know in general are very family-centered, and value traditional gender roles in marriage, and Pauline submission of wife to husband, similar to most social and religious conservatives among evangelical and fundamentalist protestants.

I would not make a judgement about all Mormons based on this woman’s behavior, any more than I would judge all Catholics on the basis of Joan Chittister or John Kerry, or judge all protestants by Tammy Faye and Jim Bakker.
 
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Casen:
There are three problems with your post. First, you say that her religion isn’t helping her condition. Do you know enough about LDS teachings against pride, vanity, self worth, and the value of education to say this?
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I am misstating. The religion itself, if this woman could attend church with no other people present or no opportunity to speak to them she would be just fine. The LDS teachings and morals aren’t the problem, it’s the people that profess to follow them. Yes, I know enough about them - Two-to-three hours worth of every Sunday for the first 14 years of my life enough. Those people are terrible to each other after you get to know them.
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Casen:
Second, from your post I sense that you feel women that choose postpone careers to raise their children and become a “houseswife for a man” are somehow inferior or are making a mistake in choosing to raise their children rather than letting a daycare worker raise them. Am I misreading you?
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The problem is not raising one’s own children - I, myself, am saving money so I can do just that one day. The problem is how they’re prodded into becoming mothers in the first place. Women who stay single or don’t/can’t have children are treated differently than those who are mothers. I have witnessed this first hand. If a woman who chose a career instead of or before having children speaks about herself, the others will find a space of time to interject something to the effect of “you poor thing, you’ll find a husband/have kids someday.”
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Casen:
Third, you seem to be suggesting that the LDS church outwardly encourages women to become educated but secretly just wants them around so the men in college can find wives. Is this really what you’re suggesting?
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It’s not just suggestion; some of the sisters who used to “teach” my Beehive class and administer to girls camp have actually said these things. We used to sing songs and clap hands about getting married to a Mormon man. The other girls would say that their mothers want them to go to college until they find a husband. My own mother said this, too.
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Casen:
Are you justifying this inference based on the 11 friends you had in college? Well, if we’re presenting anecdotal evidence I’ll just say that my wife (also LDS) has a masters degree and career, my three sisters (also LDS) have college degrees and careers, my mother (also LDS) has a college degree and career, etc. Anyway, you get the point. I get the impression that you already have in your mind an opinion about LDS church members and are looking for evidence to justify your opinion.
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I wouldn’t give that victory to the LDS church, I’d give that credit to having a good family.
 
What can I say Mila; you met some LDS folks struggling to live their religion. I’ve always thought of the Church as a Hospital for sinners, which applies to all of us.

If you attend ANY church you will find people at various stages of spiritual development. If your goal is to discredit a religion by finding some “bad people” in it then you can discredit ALL of Christianity! I guarantee you’ll find people struggling to live the gospel in every church.

10 And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.
11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?
12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.(Matthew 9:10 - 13)
 
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