Has anyone here gone to Medjugorge?

[neophyte]

NO they are not. Only pilgrimages that are sponsored by a diocese are forbidden.

Perhaps you can explain to me how the Papal Nuncio’s blanket statement “clerics and the faithful are not permitted to participate in meetings, conferences or public celebrations during which the credibility of such ‘apparitions’ would be taken for granted” can possibly mean that “clerics and the faithful are permitted to participate in meetings, conferences or public celebrations during which the credibility of such ‘apparitions’ would be taken for granted.”

Priests and bishops go to Medjugorje all the time.

Including both of the local Bishops who insist that the apparitions are false, and whose opinions are the current official position of the Church.

There are priests and bishops who openly dissent against the definitive teachings on the ordination of women and on the nature of homosexual behavior. Do you think that means such ordinations and behavior can be freely ignored? Likewise, Archbishop Tarcisio Bertone’s letter of May 26, 1998 specifically says “Finally, as regards pilgrimages to Medjugorje, which are conducted privately, this Congregation points out that they are permitted on condition that they are not regarded as an authentification of events still taking place and which still call for an examination by the Church.”

So again:

1. The current official position of the Church is that the alleged apparitions are not real.
2. The faithful are not permitted to participate in events which assume otherwise.
3. The faithful are also not permitted to take anything that happens during trips there as confirmation against the position of the Church.

 

[Limoncello4021]

I have visited Medjugorje and read (at one time) all the messages. I never found anything that augmented my faith beyond what the Church teaches and what can also be gotten from Fatima, Lourdes, or other approved apparitions. The continual messages just seem to me to be banal and trite. I can’t imagine Our Lady doing this.

 

[steve-b]

Imdaman:

NO they are not. Only pilgrimages that are sponsored by a diocese are forbidden.

Perhaps you can explain to me how the Papal Nuncio’s blanket statement “clerics and the faithful are not permitted to participate in meetings, conferences or public celebrations during which the credibility of such ‘apparitions’ would be taken for granted” can possibly mean that “clerics and the faithful are permitted to participate in meetings, conferences or public celebrations during which the credibility of such ‘apparitions’ would be taken for granted.”

Priests and bishops go to Medjugorje all the time.

Including both of the local Bishops who insist that the apparitions are false, and whose opinions are the current official position of the Church.

Card Arinze says those are opinions. If Medjugorje is false, why has Card Arinze said 2017, “The visions are instead considered non constat de supernaturalitate, which allows for personal belief in the authenticity of the apparitions along with personal (not diocesan sponsored) pilgrimages to the apparition site, pending the Pope’s awaited decision.”

Card Arinze doesn’t flaunt Church authority.

neophyte:

There are priests and bishops who openly dissent against the definitive teachings on the ordination of women and on the nature of homosexual behavior. Do you think that means such ordinations and behavior can be freely ignored? Likewise, Archbishop Tarcisio Bertone’s letter of May 26, 1998 specifically says "Finally, as regards pilgrimages to Medjugorje, which are conducted privately, this Congregation points out that they are permitted on condition that they are not regarded as an authentification of events still taking place and which still call for an examination by the Church."

You’re avoiding Card Arinze’s point made in 2017.

 

[neophyte]

If Medjugorje is false, why has Card Arinze said 2017, “The visions are instead considered non constat de supernaturalitate,

Supposed apparitions that have definitively been determined to be false receive the judgement non constat de supernaturalitate. In law there is no such category as constat de non supernaturalitate.

You’re avoiding the clear text of the Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano’s letter of October 21, 2013 to the USCCB: “clerics and the faithful are not permitted to participate in meetings, conferences or public celebrations during which the credibility of such “apparitions” would be taken for granted.”

You’re also engaging in some serious logical errors in your reasoning: “there are people who go there all the time and get some good out of it, therefore the apparitions must be real” is deeply flawed reasoning.

Believe what you wish.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

If Medjugorje is false, why has Card Arinze said 2017, “The visions are instead considered non constat de supernaturalitate,

Supposed apparitions that have definitively been determined to be false receive the judgement non constat de supernaturalitate. In law there is no such category as constat de non supernaturalitate.

You’re avoiding the clear text of the Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano’s letter of October 21, 2013 to the USCCB: “clerics and the faithful are not permitted to participate in meetings, conferences or public celebrations during which the credibility of such “apparitions” would be taken for granted.”

As Card Arinze said, in the article I linked, to from 2017
There are differing points of view on Medjugorje. Point being, the Church has not invalidated Medjugorje.

 

[neophyte]

Point being, the Church has not invalidated Medjugorje.

Point being, the faithful are not permitted to presume that the alleged apparitions are real.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

Point being, the Church has not invalidated Medjugorje.

Point being, the faithful are not permitted to presume that the alleged apparitions are real.

point being, Card Arinze in 2017, said the Church has NOT made that official. So Don’t take this further than the Church takes it.

 

[commenter]

The virtue of prudence calls us to not only avoid that which is condemned, but also take things in proper proportion, given that we all have a limited amount of time, money, and attention. In terms of guidance, by far the most important source is public revelation. To supplement that is, perhaps, approved private revelation. But even approved private revelation needs to be taken lightly, with some caution.

People have been known zero in on one specific private revelation, and discredit other private revelations, and even neglect Public Revelation. Thus a few decades ago you had Catholics who were more familiar with the Secret Letters of Fatima than with the Letters of St. Paul.

I know people who (I eventually happened to find out) have gone to Medjugorje, who do daily Mass, Bible reading, and Spiritual and Corporal works of Mercy. But to my knowlege they never talk about Medjugorje, they don’t feel any need to “defend” it. Medjugorje, like Fatima, has been hurt not by its opponents but by its “defenders”.

BTW, I don’t think devotion to Fatima will ever again reach the level it was in 1960. But I am hopeful that now, as most of the fanatic organizations, magazines, and “defenders” have passed on, it may again take its place - not to draw attention to Fatima, but assisting a quiet conversion to God.

 

[Ridgerunner]

One always has to be careful about anything that asks for one’s belief, including things that seem very Catholic. But sometimes it’s difficult not to credit certain things.

My wife was diagnosed with M.S. many years ago by two neurologists. Her symptoms were quite evident, and getting worse. Her aunt invited to go with her to Medjugorge, and she did. She did witness some extraordinary events there that I won’t go into.

But while she was gone, one of my aunts sent me a picture she had painted perhaps 50 years before. I had an uncle who was very dedicated to the rosary and made one of gold beads. My aunt (other side of the family) painted a really beautiful picture of Our Lady holding a golden rosary. The uncle died. One of his daughters (who the artist aunt barely knew) inherited the rosary and the painting.

Out of the blue, the uncle’s daughter sent the picture to the aunt who had painted it long ago. No explanation other than that she thought the aunt would like to have it. The aunt sent it to me saying she thought I might want to have it. (She had her own children, and I can’t imagine why she sent it to me, but she did. She didn’t know about my wife’s trip.)

When my wife returned, she was symptom free. Her neurologist was so astonished he did what one can only describe as a little dance for perhaps a couple of seconds. He was absolutely baffled. On subsequent checkups, she was still without symptoms. That was probably 30 years ago, and she’s still symptom free.

Hard to discredit things like that.

 

[Cruciferi]

At least it’s not Garabandal… :man_shrugging:t2:

 

[guanophore]

the church has NOT officially claimed it authentic - incredibly enough.

I thought we were not supposed to discuss unapproved apparitions?

The Church waits until the “end” to make a judgment, rather than basing it on what has happened, as things can drastically change.

 

[Legend]

We are mot allowed to discuss the contents of unapproved phenomena. But, posts on what the bishops say, any word from the Vatican, or, sometimes even our own opinions have been allowed. However, most such threads have been closed, as people often have strong opinions, pro and con, have become emotional, even abusive. The subject does have to be discussed with care.
Also, unabashed promotion is forbidden. But discussion is not. I know that I learned a lot about it, and try to pass on what I know, when appropriate.
Hope that helps.

 

[Rob2]

I highly recommend going and seeing this for yourself. Make your own decision on whats going on. If you are looking for a very spiritual pilgrimage with lots of authentically Catholic events you will not be disappointed.

I did that .

I found nothing but solid Catholicism .

The Eucharist .

Lines of people awaiting the Sacrament of Reconciliation .

Eucharist Adoration .

Penance .

Stations of the Cross .

The Rosary .

Holy Hour .

Private prayer .

A thirst for God .

 

[Lormar]

I’m reading this fascinating book about a healing that took place there

Seagull, what is the name of the book you are reading?

 

[Seagull]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

4 bucks on eBay -

written by a layman - for a layman.
A dad of ten kids…etc…a macho dad…till he gets word from doctor - six months to live.
It’s really a fast paced book - too
then - it’s the last resort for a cure…yup…Medjugoria …desperate…
He thought he was a good church goer - but he sure began learning about himself…

 

[Lormar]

Thanks, Seagull.
I miss the thumb’s up emoticon they used to have here. It would have come in handy now. That emoticon drove many here batty, but I liked it.

 

[commenter]

Seagull:

the church has NOT officially claimed it authentic - incredibly enough.

I thought we were not supposed to discuss unapproved apparitions?

The Church waits until the “end” to make a judgment, rather than basing it on what has happened, as things can drastically change.

It is a mistake to think the Church inevitably makes a judgement on everything, if enough people are interested.

There are many things the Church NEVER makes a definitive judgment on. With Fatima, people thought it had reached “the end”; but for decades after there were other bits of information released. There might still be some journal entry or letter released tomorrow on Fatima. The problem is that once the Church approves something, people think every subsequent letter, journal entry, recollection, or oral statement by or attributed to the visionary is therefore “approved”.

With Medjugorje, there are multiple living visionaries, even if the visions stopped tomorrow, there could be a period much longer than the Fatima century during which there might be discovered journals, recollections, letters, releasing new information not communicated during the period when revelations are ongoing.

Nobody now alive on CAF will be alive when “the end” comes, if it ever comes. I think Medjugorje will likely become like the million other things the Vatican has never approved nor condemned.

 

[Lormar]

Nobody now alive on CAF will be alive when “the end” comes, if it ever comes. I think Medjugorje will likely become like the million other things the Vatican has never approved nor condemned

I think you may be right.

I always think of what Gamaliel said.