Has anyone here gone to Medjugorge?

[commenter]

The Church HAS to take seriously every time there are large numbers of Catholics gathering somewhere. If a new state college opens in a small town, the Catholic student population suddenly is far greater than the local parish had been planned for. The higher Church authority assesses the situation to ensure the pastoral needs will be met.

This does not mean the Church endorses the college itself or the decision to attend there. If all the people currently going to M were to suddenly descend on the town 50 miles south of where YOU live, there would be a high-level pastoral assessment of that town too.

 

[Cruciferi]

They could always condemn it. Why wait so long? Just get it over with then.

 

[commenter]

They could always condemn it. Why wait so long? Just get it over with then.

The Church rarely condemns things.

More useful is to keep in mind that public revelation is 100 times as important as private Revelation, and that is what the Church now has to affirm and defend.

Within that one percent of our attention that we should be giving to private Revelations, there are some valid points to be made. But in 2018, when barbarians are trashing public revelation the worst since the Roman empire, maybe the Church has other priorities.

 

[Jo_B]

I used to believe that the apparitions really took place… and I still think that the original ones did… however, as time has gone by and they claim to continue to communicate with the BVM on a regular basis I started to have my doubts. Now I simply don’t believe these continuing alleged apparitions at all.

Also, since hearing that Pope Francis has openly said that in his opinion the ongoing alleged apparitions “are not credible” I know my gut feeling was correct.

This comment of Pope Francis really says it all "The real Madonna is the one who generates Jesus in our hearts, a Mother,” he said. “The superstar Virgin Mary, who seeks the limelight, the Pope insisted, ‘is not Catholic.’”

(https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/...cious-of-ongoing-medjugorje-apparitions-68961)

However, Pope Francis has conceded that there is a pastoral benefit/role to the people who visit Medjugorje and has appointed a Special Envoy to get a deeper insight into their “pastoral” needs.

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/...visitor-for-pastoral-care-in-medjugorje-42036

 

[steve-b]

What are we up to now? 30,000 messages in Medjugorge? I find it amusing how the Blessed Mother talks about the price of fish and comments on seers hair.

I’m particularly interested in reading about Tomislav Vlašić, the former priest and spiritual director of the seers who couldn’t stick to his vows and got a nun pregnant. He’s been doing it all again btw, this time the focus is on The Central Nucleus!

All hail to The Central Nucleus!

It saddens me on how gullible some people are, but it’s not surprising when you consider one will pay a $1000 for a flight in the hope of finding a spiritual experience.

By Judas being who he was, did that disualify Jesus who picked Judas ?

 

[michaelArc]

I don’t follow. What does that have to do with Medjugorge?

 

[steve-b]

I don’t follow.

Go back and read YOUR post that prompted my response.

 

[michaelArc]

I have. I still don’t follow. You’re going to have to spell it out for me.

 

[steve-b]

michaelArc:

I’m particularly interested in reading about Tomislav Vlašić, the former priest and spiritual director of the seers who couldn’t stick to his vows and got a nun pregnant. He’s been doing it all again btw, this time the focus is on The Central Nucleus!

All hail to The Central Nucleus!

It saddens me on how gullible some people are, but it’s not surprising when you consider one will pay a $1000 for a flight in the hope of finding a spiritual experience.

I have. I still don’t follow. You’re going to have to spell it out for me.

Really?

Your argument is that a priest who is a Judas, disqualifies the seers and Medjugorje…

 

[Legend]

I don’t know how relevant this is now, but, for centuries, there has been tension between the diocese of Mostar-Duvno (in which M is located), and the Franciscans who have long led the parish of St, James, and many other parishes.
Here is a link that I found on the subject
http://www.unamsanctamcatholicam.co...0-understanding-the-herzegovina-question.html
It seems as if the Franciscans, who had been allowed to remain as missionaries over the years, have long been disobeying the Bishops, their own superiors, and others in authority, by not allowing their parishes to be assimilated into the diocese…in fact, they have been ordered to do so, but still, about ten or so parishes remain in Franciscan control. The split of Yugoslavia, many wars and conflicts, and other disruptions have made it difficult for the Vatican to enforce this.
So, another possibility to consider; The leading Franciscans have supported the alleged ‘seers’ almost since the beginning may be using M as a stalling tactic. Most of this http:/ is contained in the article in the link, so, no more about that, but here are some things to consider;
1). Although there are several alleged statements quoted, Pope John Paul II never made a public statement on M, for or against.
2). The first of the young ‘seers’ to actually see the apparition, Ivanka, had just recently and suddenly lost her own mother;
3). The first few apparitions, as recognized by the Ruini report, were quite different from those which occurred later, and reportedly occur to this day.

So, although it was said, in the report, that the first seven days 'merit further investigation, Archbishop Hozer has said that he is not part of any such study…his role, now, is purely pastoral.
What does this all mean? I don’t know myself, but it seems that a decision may not be imminent, may not be investigated for years.
It’s best not to put too much faith in this. People may visit there, as any other place in the world, but it doesn’t seem likely that a decision will be made too soon. If I’ve confused anyone further, I’m sorry. Pope Francis has all but said that the present phenomena is, I believe, of little value.

Note: I have not fully investigated the site from which I got the link. I just searched ‘Herzegovina question’, and it was the first, and most comprehensive, result. If it’s a usually unreliable site, I apologize, but, as it stands, it seems to bring together several facts that I’ve heard before together.

 

[michaelArc]

Okay, I understand your point of view. Well I never said the priest is Judas. Because in order for him to be Judas, someone would have to be Christ.

 

[steve-b]

Okay, I understand your point of view. Well I never said the priest is Judas. Because in order for him to be Judas, someone would have to be Christ.

The analogy of Judas, is to point to someone who is a flawed individual, and the follower of( ? ), THEN using THAT flawed individual, to disqualify the validity of the one they were associated with.

Do we disqualify Jesus because Jesus selected Judas?

therefore, We don’t disqualify Medjugorje then, because of a flawed priest who was associated with the seers.

 

[Rozellelily]

I’m Bosnian background and personally I wouldn’t go to Medjugorje for “spiritual reasons” unless the apparitions were approved by the Pope.

I can’t speak for whether the apparitions are real or not,(and not just real but from God and not satan) but I do know that God is not the author of confusion or division.

I have heard of “good fruit” happening there but there are also bad things to take into consideration.
For example,some of the priests connected to it give me a “bad vibe” or a feeling that they themselves may have be misled.

For example an associate priest,Father Zlatko Kudac,gives me an uncomfortable almost semi “new age vibe”.

It’s hard to know what to make of all this.

 

[michaelArc]

Well I can’t make the assumption that the priest is Judas because these apparitions are not of God.

Though I also highly doubt the Mother of God (who operates outside of time and space mind you) would choose someone like Vlašić to be the spiritual director. He was rotten from the beginning, having an affair with a nun who becomes pregnant, then persuades her to move to Germany and piously orders her to ‘be like Mary’ and accept her fate. Six years later Father Vlašić is ‘spiritual leader’ of six children in Medjogorge. He is later exposed, unfrocked and is now doing the same thing akin to a UFO cult with an Italian “seer.” Yet the Gospa actually compliments him in one of her endless insepid messages stating he is “guiding you well.” Good grief.

Yes I won’t deny that there are good fruits related to Medjogorge, though I would argue much of them come from the administered Sacraments. But Tomislav Vlašić is just one sidebar among a long list of sidebars involving disobedience and deception.

I will be muting this post as doing a back-and-forth is futile with staunch supporters of Medjugorje. But at some point, one has to ask the Holy Spirt for the grace of wisdom to use some discernment. Unfortunately if your mind is made up, then no amount of facts and evidence will ever persaude you otherwise. But be careful of the Devil’s hook, that will lead you to believe that the pronouncements of the church are wrong, while your subjective experiences are right.

 

[steve-b]

But be careful of the Devil’s hook, that will lead you to believe that the pronouncements of the church are wrong, while your subjective experiences are right.

I’m not saying in any of my posts, that the Church pronouncements are wrong. If there was anything to the invalidity to Medjugorje, then it would be condemned. The Church wouldn’t have anything more to do with it. And that’s not the case.

 

[Rob2]

If there was anything to the invalidity to Medjugorje, then it would be condemned. The Church wouldn’t have anything more to do with it. And that’s not the case.

You make a good point there .

The events in Medjugorje have been going on for 37 years .

In all of that time nothing , as you say , invalid has occured which warranted the Church’s condemnation .

If something contrary to Catholic teaching had taken place the Vatican would have come down on it like a ton of bricks .

On the contrary the Vatican sees to the pastoral care of the parishioners of Medjugorje and of the pilgrims to Medjugorje .

The Vatican would not be doing this if there was something harmful to Catholics taking place in Medjugorje .

 

[Seagull]

Local bishop:
“Medjugorje is a hoax”
Adfero, Rorate Caeli
WEDNESDAY, MARCH 1, 2017
And not just that the alleged apparitions are a scam
but that they are manipulations from fake visionaries and priests
who benefit financially from the credulous throngs of Catholics who visit the site.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Seagull]

Pope Francis: I am suspicious of ongoing Medjugorje apparitions

“I personally am more suspicious,
I prefer the Madonna as Mother, our Mother,
and not a woman who’s the head of an office,
who every day sends a message at a certain hour.
This is not the Mother of Jesus.
And these presumed apparitions don’t have a lot of value.”

He clarified that this is his “personal opinion,”
but added that the Madonna does not function by saying,
“Come tomorrow at this time, and I will give a message to those people.”

Differentiating between these and the first apparitions, he said, is key.

Pope Francis spoke to the 70 journalists on board with him
during his May 13 flight from Fatima back to Rome.

 

[Rob2]

Pope Francis went on to say , “People go there and convert. People encounter God, change their lives.”

This isn’t a result of “magic,” he said, but is a valid spiritual and pastoral fact that “can’t be ignored."

 

[Carmel]

Does anyone know what Pope John Paul II thought of Medjugorje ?

Here is a quote from 'The Thunder of Justice ’ by Ted and Maureen Flynn
'Pope John Paul 11 does not discourage anyone regarding Medjugorje.On April 21,1989. Bishop Paul Hnilica,SJ, Auxiliary Bishop of Rome, reported that he had been admonished by the Holy Father for not stopping in Medugorje on his return to Rome after a meeting in Moscow on behalf of the Pope. The Pope said to Bishop Hnilica , " If I wasn’t the Pope, I’d be in Medugorje already."