Has Benedict XVI disposed of the CCC?

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dljl said:
Benedict’s instincts on everything have been wonderful!
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:rotfl: I’m sorry. The picture in this post threw me for a loop. I saw the picture and the name Benedict and I couldn’t imagine for the life of me ever seeing Benedict dressed like that. My first thought was, “What now?!!!”

JR 🙂
 
saint_rafael said:
Yes he has thank God. The new cross is the one Pope Puis IX used. Traditionally, Popes have used crosses as staffs. Slowly, Pope Benedict is bringing in some tradition.

The Crooked Creepy Crucifix should make Catholics shudder. It’s weird and Crooked Crucifixes have generally been used by Satanists over the centuries for mocking.
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Its not really your place to tell Catholics what they should or should not do. The idea that a Pope should not use a particular crucifix because Satanists have used them to mock them is idiotic.
 
JReducation said:
That cross was not the creation of any satanic rite. It was designed by St. John of the Cross, one the Doctors of the Church. The reason that he is called a Doctor is because everything that he teaches is consistent with the Catholic faith. There is no error in his theology and there is not doubt in the mind of the Church as to his union with God.

John of the Cross saw that vision in one of his mystical experiences where Christ appeared to him thus. He tried the best he could to explain it in his reflections.

It is based on very solid theology. St. John of the Cross saw that even while nailed to the cross, suffering the worse kind of suffering imposed by our sinfulness, Christ still bends down towards man and reaches out to embrace him, so that the cross embraces the world.

That’s a beautiful and a rationale theological explanation of the cross. I see no demonic or satanic thought here, just truth that can be verified by the teaching of the Church and the scriptures.

Most crosses are very beautiful, but very sanitized. John of the Cross, hence his name, did not see a sanitized cross. He saw a grotesque death of him who reaches out to embrace the world.

JR 🙂
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It is the mind of the Protestant to want a sanitized cross, not the Catholic. The Catholic wants to keep in his mind forever the horror of what Christ suffered in order to redeem us, and rightly so. We should never take for granted the price of our salvation.

JPII was a true Mystic, he was always at the foot of the Cross, with St. Francis of Assisi, with St. John of the Cross, with St. John the Evangelist, with the Blessed Virgin, with all the great Saints of the ages, never taking his eyes off our suffering savior, always looking to join in His sufferings for our sake.

Nothing sanitized, just truth. His choice of Crucifix bears witness to his soul.
 
Jeanette_L said:
It is the mind of the Protestant to want a sanitized cross, not the Catholic. The Catholic wants to keep in his mind forever the horror of what Christ suffered in order to redeem us, and rightly so. We should never take for granted the price of our salvation.

JPII was a true Mystic, he was always at the foot of the Cross, with St. Francis of Assisi, with St. John of the Cross, with St. John the Evangelist, with the Blessed Virgin, with all the great Saints of the ages, never taking his eyes off our suffering savior, always looking to join in His sufferings for our sake.

Nothing sanitized, just truth. His choice of Crucifix bears witness to his soul.
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Beautifully stated
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed b
 
chewchoo said:
i agree, cathedrals are awesome and humbling. never been to the one in DC, but i have seen a number of them in europe. they are a strong and loud statement of our glory to God. 🙂
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I was blessed to have gone to the one in DC as part of our RCIA experience, it was awesome!

I am very envious that you have seen the ones in Europe! (not to the point of sin, mind you! 😛 )

I spent my life in the white walled world of Evangelical churches, the Catholics know how to glorify God through their architecture!

Even the simple Franciscan churches have an ethereal beauty to them that I had not seen in my previous life 😉 .
 
holdencaulfield said:
If Pope Pius IX used it, it’s good for me. 🤷
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And many would say “if Pope John Paul the Great used it, it’s good enough for me.” Both would be knee-jerk, ill-reasoned arguments…but it seems to rest on a matter of aesthetics, which is open.
 
JKirkLVNV said:
And many would say “if Pope John Paul the Great used it, it’s good enough for me.” Both would be knee-jerk, ill-reasoned arguments…but it seems to rest on a matter of aesthetics, which is open.
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I really never had a problem with it, however I do value tradition.
 
holdencaulfield said:
I really never had a problem with it, however I do value tradition.
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That’s just it…it isn’t all that traditional. I haven’t any problem with someone prefering the cross of Pius IX, though I don’t prefer it. I have a problem with the free and easy way that terms like “traditional” are batted around, or “modernsim,” for that matter. As has been pointed out, popes have not carried a pastoral staff OR a crosier for centuries. Pius IX carried it rarely, I seem to recall. Further, to say that if Pius IX carried it, it’s okay is as bad as what “traditionalists” accuse others of intimating: If John Paul II did it, it was ok. See?
 
JKirkLVNV said:
That’s just it…it isn’t all that traditional. I haven’t any problem with someone prefering the cross of Pius IX, though I don’t prefer it. I have a problem with the free and easy way that terms like “traditional” are batted around, or “modernsim,” for that matter. As has been pointed out, popes have not carried a pastoral staff OR a crosier for centuries. Pius IX carried it rarely, I seem to recall. Further, to say that if Pius IX carried it, it’s okay is as bad as what “traditionalists” accuse others of intimating: If John Paul II did it, it was ok. See?
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Could the term that you’re looking for be “splitting”?

If that’s what you’re looking for, then I agree. We have to much of that on CAF. We are splitting between popes, between forms of the liturgy, and now over croziers.

This type of discussion may be good entertainment as a way to pass one’s time, but it does little for the spirit and much less for humanity.

JR 🙂
 
Dauphin said:
That’s just the thing. I don’t think the depiction is very realistic at all.

I find crucifixes with graphic, realistic displays of Christ’s sacrifice to be quite moving.
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It doesn’t get much more realistic…
 
JReducation said:
Bishops can use any crozier they want. Traditionally, the Pope uses one with a cross at the top, but there is not law one way or the other.

The one that John Paul II used was designed by St. John of the Cross. It was deliberately designed to look like a tree from a vision that St. John of the Cross had of Christ hanging of the cross embracing the world, that’s why it is bent downward.

Benedict has used several croziers since his election. He also prefers to use the Eastern Rite crucifix in processions instead of the Roman crucifix.

The Eastern Rite crucifix is the one with two horizontal bars. This crucifix is the crucifix carried by an acolyte when a patriarch is preciding.

JR 🙂
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What? No.

*"…the rugged crucifix on top that was created by Italian artist Lello Scorzelli for Pope Paul in the mid-1960s. The Vatican’s yearbook, “Activity of the Holy See,” includes a photograph of Pope Paul holding the Scorzelli staff on Easter 1965.

But the piece has become closely identified with the pontificate of Pope John Paul II and is placed alongside a photograph of him in the renewed “Vatican Splendors” exhibit currently touring the United States.

Msgr. Marini said there actually are two copies of the Scorzelli staff: the one in the exhibit, open in St. Petersburg, Fla., through May 11, and “the other which is here in the pontifical sacristy.”

The Scorzelli crucifix remains the model for the crucifix on the rosaries Pope Benedict gives to his guests."*

And they are not “croziers” – they are crucifixes.
 
JKirkLVNV said:
That’s just it…it isn’t all that traditional. I haven’t any problem with someone prefering the cross of Pius IX, though I don’t prefer it. I have a problem with the free and easy way that terms like “traditional” are batted around, or “modernsim,” for that matter. As has been pointed out, popes have not carried a pastoral staff OR a crosier for centuries. Pius IX carried it rarely, I seem to recall. Further, to say that if Pius IX carried it, it’s okay is as bad as what “traditionalists” accuse others of intimating: If John Paul II did it, it was ok. See?
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Of course it is. You’re simply wrong about that.
 
Does anyone here know of a source for a “full-sized” (same as pope’s) copy of this crucifix that is reasonably priced? I think one would make an exceptional processional crucifix…
 
Spiller said:
Of course it is. You’re simply wrong about that.
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I’m sorry, wrong about what? I was speaking of HH Pope Pius IX’s cross, not the pastoral staff of HH Pope John Paul II.

My point was that popes have NOT carried either crosier or pastoral staff more often than they HAVE carried either. The first staffs carried by the pontiff’s, until the 11th century, were in the shape of the typical crosier carried by bishops of the Latin Rite, ie, a “shepherd’s crook.” After that, they might or might not carry one at all, either crosier or a staff topped with a cross of some kind.

“A crosier was also carried on some occasions by the pope, beginning in the early days of the church. This practice was gradually phased out and had disappeared by the time of Innocent III’s papacy in the eleventh century. In the Middle Ages, popes would carry a three-barred cross (one more bar than on those carried before archbishops), in the same manner as other bishops carried a crosier. This was in turn phased out, but Paul VI introduced the modern papal pastoral staff, which instead of the triple cross depicts a modern rendition of the crucified Christ, whose arms are fixed to a crossbar that is curved somewhat in the manner of an Eastern crozier.”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crosier
 
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